Fed adds more punch to low-rate pledge

Larry Downing / Reuters

Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke has been a dominant force in pushing for more openness at the central bank.

New normal, meet the new Fed.

The Federal Reserve took two major new steps Wednesday to assure businesses and consumers that it intends to keep borrowing costs at record low levels for the foreseeable future – at least three years.

For the first time in its 94-year history, the central bank opened its mind to the public, publishing a collection of charts that break down policymakers’ forecasts on interest rates, inflation and unemployment.  And for the first time ever, it set an explicit target for inflation, 2 percent a year, instead of an implied target.

Both steps are in keeping with Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke’s stated goal of making the Fed’s decisions ever more transparent. Economists welcomed the new moves but said they have their own risks.

The first headline to come out after central bankers ended their two-day meeting Wednesday was the news that policymakers do not expect to raise short-term interest rates until late 2014 at the earliest, rather than mid-2013 as they said a month ago.  Those record-low rates are still needed to help boost an improving but still sluggish economy, the Fed said in the new statement.  

"I think what they are seeing is that the rate of growth is not sufficient to bring down the unemployment rate,” said Brian Dolan, chief strategist at Forex.com. Unemployment stood at 8.5 percent at the latest reading in December, with 13 million Americans who would like a job unable to find one.

The latest data show the economy beginning to strengthen: Hiring has picked up, factories are increasing output and car sales are rising. Still, the threat of a recession in Europe continues to weigh on the global economy. U.S. consumers have been resorting to borrowing again to maintain spending levels that may not be sustainable.

In its latest forecast, the central bank cut its growth outlook this year but is now a bit more optimistic about the unemployment rate. It expects the U.S. economy to grow between 2.2 percent and 2.7 percent this year. That's down from its November's forecast of between 2.5 percent and 2.9 percent. But it sees unemployment falling as low as 8.2 percent this year, better than its earlier forecast of 8.5 percent. December's rate was 8.5 percent.

By making its plans and expectations clear and explicit, the Fed is hoping to boost public confidence that interest rates will stay low. If the strategy works, that higher confidence will encourage investment and spending that would give the moribund economy a lift.

The plan could create problems for Fed officials down the road as economic conditions change. Though the disclosures are being billed as “expectations,” investors have come to view the pronouncements as commitments. If events overtake the Fed’s current thinking, those expectations may have to be altered. That could undermine the credibility of these forecasts, according to Credit Suisse economists.

“Eventually, the Fed is bound to discover it cannot live up to the policy trajectory communicated to the market,” they wrote in a recent note explaining the changes in Fed’s communication strategy. “When this happens the Fed will have enhanced its transparency at the expense of its credibility. And between those two assets, credibility is by far the more important.”

That, the economists argue, could have ”the perverse effect of encouraging greater volatility in the fixed income markets, especially when the FOMC eventually starts forecasting higher funds rate targets.”

Promising to keeping rates low to spur borrowing and spending may be a double-edged sword. Potential home buyers, for example, may be happy to sit on the fence as long as they don’t have to worry about missing out on record-low mortgage rates.

“It may take the floor away from the housing market,” said Douglas C. Borthwick, managing director at Faros Trading. “With no apparent need for buyers to lock in lower rates today they may be more encouraged to wait a little while longer to pull the trigger. Why buy today when there may be more supply tomorrow?"

Since the Great Recession of 2007-09 and the biggest housing collapse since the 1930s, the Fed has thrown pretty much everything in its toolkit at the financial system, trying to revive the economy. Conventional moves targeting short-term lending have been followed by unorthodox schemes that included massive buying of mortgage bonds and a switch in the maturities of Treasury bonds to drive down longer-term rates. On Wednesday, the Fed announced no new plans to buy bonds.

Economists generally believe the Fed’s initial moves succeeded in heading off a deeper financial and economic collapse. But the economy is still growing slowly, and the job and housing markets are still badly broken.

The Fed has been debating for some time the idea of publishing its internal inflation and unemployment forecasts. The central bankers have been following an unofficial inflation target of about 2 percent of the last few years.

Part of the problem with publishing both inflation and unemployment targets is that, while they are both part of the Fed’s “dual mandate,” managing the two objectives often call for conflicting policies. Controlling inflation often calls for tighter monetary policy, for example, which typically slows growth and raises the level of unemployment.

The Fed’s new rate-forecast policy may already be having the desired impact. As details of the Fed’s new policy have been disclosed, interest rates on U.S. Treasury bonds, a bellwether for borrowing costs from mortgages to corporate commercial paper, have been edging lower.

On Wednesday, Treasury yields fell on the news that the Fed plans no rate increase until late 2014 at the earliest. The yield on the 10-year note sank to 1.95 percent, down from 2.02 percent just before the Fed made its announcement.

Lower yields could help further reduce mortgage rates and possibly boost stock prices as investors shift out of lower-yielding Treasurys. Stocks, which had traded lower before the Fed announcment, quickly recovered their losses. The Dow Jones industrial average, which had been down about 60 points before the announcement, was up 81 points shortly before the close.

Is the Fed helping the economy with its latest actions?

Related:

 

 

Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke says he will "not get involved in political rhetoric" and also shares insight on Dodd-Frank.

Results with 38 short comments
Total of 3,967 votes - click on the "Display Comments" bar below to sort comments

49%
Yes.
1,945 votes
32.1%
No.
1,273 votes
18.9%
Not sure.
749 votes
Display Comments:
Yes.

This is welcome news, assuming that political machinations don't overturn these plans.

     - Dr. JBA
     - 4:08 pm EST on Wed Jan 25, 2012
    No.

    He certainly will keep helping his buddies at the Goldman of Bofa.

    • 8 votes
     - 4:26 pm EST on Wed Jan 25, 2012
    No.

    These low retes are screwing seniors who are tring to live off their savings.

    • 13 votes
     - 4:30 pm EST on Wed Jan 25, 2012
    No.

    It won't stop in 2014, if the USD makes it that far. Bernanke has yet to be correct about anything and he is wrong on this too.

    • 7 votes
     - 4:33 pm EST on Wed Jan 25, 2012
    No.

    The Fed is not doing nothing to help the home owner.

    • 2 votes
     - 4:45 pm EST on Wed Jan 25, 2012
    No.

    Debt can not be inflated away. This is just sad now.

    • 4 votes
     - 4:48 pm EST on Wed Jan 25, 2012
    No.

    Same message.

    • 2 votes
     - 4:51 pm EST on Wed Jan 25, 2012
    No.

    Fail Fail Fail Fail Fail Fail Fail Fail Fail Fail Fail Fail Fail Fail Fail Fail Fail Fail Fail Fail Fail Fail Fail Fail Fail Fail Fail Fail

    • 5 votes
     - 4:58 pm EST on Wed Jan 25, 2012
    No.

    How long can the Bernanke bubble last - how long will savers be on the losing end of these poilicies?

    • 7 votes
     - 5:16 pm EST on Wed Jan 25, 2012
    No.

    The Fed are kiddie Bubblegummers, the bigger the bubble, the better, until it PoPs...

    • 2 votes
     - 5:17 pm EST on Wed Jan 25, 2012
    No.

    I still will not get back into the stock market and it ticks me off that they won't let interest rates rise on bonds. They're idiots!

    • 2 votes
     - 5:44 pm EST on Wed Jan 25, 2012
    Not sure.

    Low fuel prices would do the most to kick start the economy.
    Inflation and "Bubbles" are our enemy!

    • 5 votes
     - bill870
     - 5:57 pm EST on Wed Jan 25, 2012
    Not sure.

    Not certain of Fed Action, but very concerned if Fed prints money America does not have.

    • 3 votes
     - 6:17 pm EST on Wed Jan 25, 2012
    No.

    Proof of our desperate situation

    • 6 votes
     - Kornfed
     - 6:19 pm EST on Wed Jan 25, 2012
    Not sure.

    I want ot take the wait and see attitude.

    • 2 votes
     - 6:22 pm EST on Wed Jan 25, 2012
    No.

    Sloppy wet kiss to Obama from The FED

       - 6:51 pm EST on Wed Jan 25, 2012
      Yes.

      Contrary to skeptics, I think the Fed's willingness to disclose its plans will instill confidence in the potential home-buying public.

         - 6:55 pm EST on Wed Jan 25, 2012
        Yes.

        Now we need to get bussiness to start paying fare wages again w/benifits so we can buy again and really stimulate the economy!

        • 1 vote
         - 6:56 pm EST on Wed Jan 25, 2012
        No.

        looks like another bail out for WALL STREET!

        • 3 votes
         - 7:02 pm EST on Wed Jan 25, 2012
        No.

        Did it work the first two times?

        • 2 votes
         - 7:06 pm EST on Wed Jan 25, 2012
        Not sure.

        Hasn't helped me as an indivdual, whose hidding the money can't get refi even at low rates, how do you go about doing that.

        • 1 vote
         - 7:07 pm EST on Wed Jan 25, 2012
        No.

        According to the Fed: The recession has been over since 2009. And we have full employment. Why the doom and gloom stories?

        • 1 vote
         - 7:16 pm EST on Wed Jan 25, 2012
        Not sure.

        It all depends on if the money is lent out to the people that need it to rebuild their lives and get a real home again.

           - 7:18 pm EST on Wed Jan 25, 2012
          Not sure.

          I believe that the Fed is doing the best that they can to help. There is only so much they can do. The US Gov. has to help also.

             - 7:21 pm EST on Wed Jan 25, 2012
            Yes.

            Yes BUT, it would be more effective if coupled with fiscal stimulus i.e. President's Jobs Act instead of do nothing Tea-bag obstructionists

               - 7:26 pm EST on Wed Jan 25, 2012

              Discuss this post

              Jump to discussion page: 1 2 3

              Well Newt and Ron Paul won't be happy to hear that but Europe will!! Look for the dollar to go down and Euro to explode that way the FED is attacking the Euro Zone crisis better then the EU!!!

              • 3 votes
              Reply#1 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:33 PM EST

              The Fed is lucky in that the Euro zone is a mess. If the Euro or the Yuan offered a better option to the dollar as a global reserve currency, then Bernanke would not be able to get away with these manipulations.

              • 5 votes
              #1.1 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:12 PM EST

              We're still the best looking horse in the glue factory. :)

              • 7 votes
              #1.2 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:18 PM EST

              @peanutGallery: That was a pretty good analogy.

              The Fed is the cause of the bubbles. Regular working people get screwed the most when the bubbles burst. I know a guy that predicted the mess we are in now back in the early 2000's. What's his name again???

              • 4 votes
              #1.3 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:56 PM EST

              It doesn't matter how low interest rates are, I now have an upside down mortgage (I owe more than the house is worth now). Since I have a convetional loan and not a Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac Loan, nobody will re-finance the loan at a lower rate even my lender and I have never missed a payment over the 7 Years I have had the mortgage. If I had a Fannie Mae or a Freddie Mac backed Mortgage it would be no problem and they would even consider lowering the amount I owe now and possibly knock off a few thousand dollars off the pricipal (at the American taxpayers expense )and re-do the loan at a lesser rate of interest. It doesn't matter how low the interest rates are if the banks won't loan the money.

              • 8 votes
              #1.4 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:58 PM EST

              So this is their final resting point. Showing us that the people, not the corporations, shall be carrying the debt. Very sad indeed. Guess they figure we have the money, but we're just hiding it.

              New government motto "Yes we can!"*

              (*get water out of stone)

              • 3 votes
              #1.5 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:04 PM EST

              With all of the money the Fed is feeding into the economy, I don't see how they will avoid inflation for 3 more years, and when it hits, it will be devastating.

              And when inflation hits, interest rates will increase dramatically, causing the huge portfolio of debt held by the Fed to become seriously devalued. So what happens when the Fed becomes insolvent? Oh, that's right - they write their own accounting rules.

              It's a very dangerous game they're playing with our future and that of our children and grandchildren.

              Interest on the debt has averaged about 4.7% over the last 25 years, and our National Debt is over $15 Trillion. If interest rates go back to 'normal', that will increase interest on the National Debt from its current $200 Billion per year to over $700 Billion per year. That extra $500 Billion per year ($5 TRILLION over 10 years) will totally stifle our economy for the foreseeable future.

              • 1 vote
              #1.6 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:11 PM EST

              Yes Europe is a mess that threatens our recovery. Regardless of that situation we need to get cutting because we are still headed down their path, just a few years behind. We are 25% of the world's economy, If we let our debt keep increasing until we burst the whole world will see a depression worse than the great depression.

              • 2 votes
              #1.7 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:35 PM EST

              Thats correct lower the interest rate how sweet it is,

              but no one that is anyone can afford jack..

              • 1 vote
              #1.8 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:33 PM EST

              The Federal reserve and the US.govt. bailed out the banks to the tune of more than 17 trillion us.dollars and the banks are doing very well of course but those holding mortgages {housing market} not so well and are a continuing drag on the economy. What if our Govt. had taken that 17 trillion$ and given o% interest loans to all outstanding mortgages {all} not any new ones,these loans would be transferable in a sale of the property. Wouldn't this have bailed out the banks and the housing market,as the homeowners would have an easier time paying back the banks or selling the distressed property.

              • 2 votes
              #1.9 - Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:43 AM EST
              Reply

              Sigh. Low interest caused the decade of nothing for Japan. Really there is no other choice at this point.

              • 2 votes
              Reply#2 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:35 PM EST

              Your point is well taken, but the impact on the US could be far worse. In Japan most of the government's debt is held by Japanese citizens. Because of their very high savings rate, the government is protected from the full impact of their mismanagement of the economy. In the US we have a very low savings rate and most of this colossal debt is held by foreign interests. This jeopardizes the interests of the US.

              • 3 votes
              #2.1 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:45 PM EST

              Actually it's now 2 decades, how time flies. And Bob is 100-100.25% correct that Japan was in much better shape.

              How long has Ben been trying to fix things with 0% rates?

              • 2 votes
              #2.2 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:36 PM EST

              All they are doing is re inflating the bubble so there will be yet another burst in the future. They are trying to ease the pain with morphine, it feels good now but the withdrawal will be hell.

              Just another version of kicking the can down the road.

              • 1 vote
              #2.3 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:49 PM EST
              Reply

              The Fed is ignoring inflationary pressures. While wages are stagnant, the prices of commodities are rising reflecting a weaker dollar. Petroleum, food, and raw materials are getting more expensive, driving household expenses up. By keeping interest rates low, the Fed is penalizing people on a fixed income, mostly the elderly. This "financial repression" is an undeclared tax on people who are too old or too ill to return to the job market .. if there were jobs for them.

              • 11 votes
              Reply#3 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:39 PM EST

              Bob.... you're jesting of course. Aren't you?? I mean, according to the gubermint, there is NO inflation.

              Of course, that comes from the same people who can't put together even a bogus budget to over spend.

              • 5 votes
              #3.1 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:30 PM EST

              XD, what is sad about the big lie on inflation is how much it hurts the small saver or retiree. Retired people who get most of their funds from Social Security are being pressured by inflation while getting no COLAs from Social Security. Given that medical expenses have a huge effect of these folks, the consequences can be dire.

              • 3 votes
              #3.2 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:50 PM EST
              Reply

              Some on the right might not know I know this but this gas price thing could be something of a big issue in the campaign but as you can see it might be out of the President's hands. The FED an itself can do what it wants and right now this is more of a corrolation with the problems going on in Europe. So that's why this might be another unnecessary issue that's going to be a big campaign theme for the next 10 months.

                Reply#4 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:00 PM EST

                Every time gas has hit $4 it triggers a recession. If gas hits $5 this summer it's not going to be pretty.

                • 1 vote
                #4.1 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:52 PM EST
                Reply

                Oil has been around $100 a barrel for a while and people seem to be used to gas prices between $3 and $4/gall (depending upon location). Had Iran's threats been more than hot air, that could have caused a major escalation. The US has been producing more oil and gas in the last few years (fracking results mostly), but not enough to impact the world market. While governments can manipulate some numbers, it is difficult to falsify figures like the cost of a barrel of oil. The Euro zone crisis does give the Fed some breathing room, but again, only marginally affects oil prices. What impacts or changes do you see ahead? I had figured this would be a neutral factor.

                  Reply#5 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:09 PM EST

                  Bernanke's bankster bailouts continue.

                  End the Fed! Bernanke to jail!

                  • 7 votes
                  Reply#6 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:11 PM EST

                  Ever consider switching to decaff?

                  • 1 vote
                  #6.1 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:14 PM EST

                  Actually I'm on crack.

                  • 1 vote
                  #6.2 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:28 PM EST

                  alan_static is correct. If YOU try to borrow money, you wouldn't get anywhere near this interest rate. This info is to make banks and businesses feel all warm and fuzzy, and to get the stock market moving. BTW, expect a crash within the next 25 days. The economy doesn't warrant this market.

                  • 2 votes
                  #6.3 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:41 PM EST

                  Absolutely he's right. "Fiscal Repression" is the term coined for this. The approach is that you artificially lower interest rates to create more of a spread between what banks can charge borrowers and what they have to pay savers. Doesn't it make you feel all warm inside knowing that grandma and grandpa are eating Alpo and skipping their meds so the Bank of America can make up the money they lost by betting on the housing market?

                  • 3 votes
                  #6.4 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:54 PM EST
                  Reply

                  The government borrows money at market rates and loans it to bankers for a fraction of 1%. Then the bankers pay themselves magnificent commissions and bonuses for the profits they "earn" from free money.

                  • 4 votes
                  Reply#7 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:45 PM EST

                  Right Bob!!! So true!!! This what Larry Kudlow calls an easy money policy, that can be become construed as John Meynard Keynsian economics on steroids hahahahaha!!

                  • 5 votes
                  Reply#8 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:02 PM EST

                  Hey...low interest rates didn't work before..maybe it will this time...yeah right.

                  • 7 votes
                  Reply#9 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:32 PM EST

                  More leeches, that's the ticket, we just need more leeches. Bring on the bloodletting.

                  • 3 votes
                  Reply#10 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:39 PM EST

                  All this is crystal ball stuff! No one can predict the future only try to prepare for it. Business and the government would stop playing these guessing games and making evrything complicated when it could be simple things may just work out. For one why does the government start and end a fiscal year in October for their intake of money & spending and we the poor working stiffs use a regular calendar that runs from Jan to Dec? To me that's just ceative book keeping that usually gets somebody arrested. Why let contractors bid and say a job can be done for a specific price and then have the governemnt pay for cost over runs? Finally why does the government let speculators bet on everything that we need in our daily lives, especially oil? The Iranians threaten, just threaten mind you that they would close the Strait of Hormuz and the speculators were already talking the price of oil up. Only 10%, a lousy 10% of the world's oil passes through there so why even suggest a price increase? Again keeping things simple will be better in the long run.

                  • 2 votes
                  Reply#11 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:50 PM EST

                  Since the Great depression, the average time between recessions in the US has been about 5 years.The most recent recession ended in 6/09 meaning next one would on average occur around the summer of 2014. If Uncle Ben never raises rates then he has no tools for the next recession. Same problem as Japan.

                  • 3 votes
                  Reply#12 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:58 PM EST

                  Dead on Sammbob. With interest rates at zero, the Fed has used up the last arrow in their monetary policy quiver. Where do we go from here ... pay people to borrow money?

                  • 2 votes
                  #12.1 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:06 PM EST

                  They can print money like mad and really sink us!

                    #12.2 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:10 PM EST
                    Reply

                    You can't print demand or jobs! One day the house of cards will come tumbling down!

                    • 2 votes
                    Reply#13 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:59 PM EST

                    What is most upsetting about this is that the Feds pretend that they are keeping interest rates low to help the "little guy." The truth is that most Americans are not in a position to borrow money at any rate. If you are barely making ends meet you are not going to rush out and buy a house or start a business. By lowering the rates, the Fed increases inflation, which helps erode the massive debt the government has created, and helps the banksters by allowing them to maintain a big gap between the interest they charge and the interest they pay.

                    Heck of a job you're do'in Ben!

                    • 3 votes
                    Reply#14 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:59 PM EST

                    Wow, this is actually a good discussion. (No one has made any wacko comments about either political party, religion, or animal rights.) Where have you people been hiding?

                    • 6 votes
                    Reply#15 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:03 PM EST

                    This must mean that the economy is improving (??). At least I can refinance at an obscenely low rate again.

                    • 1 vote
                    Reply#16 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:29 PM EST

                    If the economy was improving they'd be raising interest rates. What they are doing now is setting us up for hyperinflation. The longer they ignore reality, the worse it's going to be.

                    • 1 vote
                    #16.1 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:14 PM EST

                    Rick Kyle, can you tell me who you can refinance with at a very low rate, did they come down from outer space somewhere---oh, that's right, most government officials stay in outer space lately.

                      #16.2 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:19 PM EST

                      Rick Kyle, can you tell me who you can refinance with at a very low rate, did they come down from outer space somewhere---oh, that's right, most government officials stay in outer space lately.

                        #16.3 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:19 PM EST

                        Rick Kyle, can you tell me who you can refinance with at a very low rate, did they come down from outer space somewhere---oh, that's right, most government officials stay in outer space lately.

                          #16.4 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:21 PM EST

                          Rick Kyle, can you tell me who you can refinance with at a very low rate, did they come down from outer space somewhere---oh, that's right, most government officials stay in outer space lately.

                            #16.5 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:34 PM EST
                            Reply

                            Gold is up $45 in late trading as I write this on news of the Fed New and IMPROVED low-low interest rates until 2014 (and likely beyond). Thanks Mr. B, keep printing that funny money!

                            • 2 votes
                            Reply#17 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:32 PM EST

                            What many don't realize is those increases in the dow are not due to prosperity but to dollar devaluation. Stocks take more dollars because the dollar is worth less.

                            That's why the more wealthy you are the less inflation impacts you, you can invest in stocks that increase with inflation. It's the little guy that has no hedge who gets screwed.

                              #17.1 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:19 PM EST

                              Sorry, double post.

                                #17.2 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:19 PM EST
                                Reply

                                I am so glad that it's people like Ben Bernanke making these decisions and not ignorant people like the ones that post on this discussion (including myself). With my basic understanding of macroeconomics, I can say:

                                1. This looks like a good decision.

                                2. None of us posting really know, because the inner workings of this are not even remotely as simple people want to make them sound. This is one of the reasons people like Bernanke get put in this position. It's not a simple thing to run the economic powerhouse of the world.

                                By the way, I like alot of things Ron Paul has to say, but the man is out to lunch on this one.

                                • 1 vote
                                Reply#18 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:35 PM EST

                                It IS a good discussion. What do you folks think about inflation? What's the REAL rate? Will we see it take off, or are we facing a deflationary spiral?

                                • 1 vote
                                Reply#19 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:37 PM EST

                                I think the real rate is quite high. Look at the CPI's for many products and they are up significantly in the last 12 months. I'm no economist but something doesn't make sense.

                                  #19.1 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:30 PM EST
                                  Reply

                                  New Englander,

                                  Give us your reasons this was a good decision.

                                    Reply#20 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:41 PM EST

                                    If the housing market can recover enough for some of the 25% of home owners who's homes are underwater, they will be able to refinance and take advantage of the low rates.

                                    • 2 votes
                                    #20.1 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:37 PM EST

                                    If they were able to refinance they would have already done it by now.

                                      #20.2 - Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:25 PM EST
                                      Reply
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