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A Chevy Volt rolls of the line at the General Motors Detroit Hamtramck Assembly Plant in Hamtramck, Mich.
By Paul A. Eisenstein, The Detroit Bureau
The Chevrolet Volt got a clean bill of health, last Friday, with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration closing its investigation into potential problems with the plug-in hybrid’s battery pack – but that doesn’t mean General Motors’ problems with the Volt are over, as a Congressional hearing is scheduled to begin on Wednesday.
The Volt controversy stems from a fire that occurred last spring, weeks after one of the battery cars went through a federal crash test. A second Volt battery pack caught fire after being tested in November. That triggered an investigation by the NHTSA – as well as hearings by the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, California Republican and committee chairman Darryl Issa contending that the government agency initially tried to cover up the original fire.
Meanwhile, GM, noting that there have been no real-world reports of battery-related fires, nonetheless announced on January 5 that it will make a number of small but significant modifications to further reduce the likelihood of problems with the battery pack.
“Based on the available data, NHTSA does not believe that Chevy Volts or other electric vehicles pose a greater risk of fire than gasoline-powered vehicles,” said a statement from NHTSA that also noted fire is a risk with all vehicles. Indeed, there are thousands of such incidents involving gas-powered vehicles every year.
A spokesman for GM responded that NHTSA’s move was “consistent” with the maker’s own internal testing, while adding that the modifications that will be made to new Volts – with free modifications being offered to current owners –“will provide additional protection…minimizing the risk of a post-crash fire in the days and weeks after a severe crash and rollover.”
What has frustrated critics, including Cong. Issa, was the fact that NHTSA initially delayed reporting the first fire for five months. It was disclosed in a report by the Reuters news service on November 12th. The issue has become politicized in the current Washington climate, critics – mostly on the Republican side of the aisle – openly wondering whether the Obama Administration, to whom NHTSA reports, wanted to avoid the bad publicity a problem with Volt might cause.
The government owned a majority stake in GM following its 2009 bankruptcy and continues to hold about a quarter of the company’s shares following GM’s November 2010 IPO.
The hearing on Capitol Hill, this week, is titled, “Volt Vehicle Fire: What did NHTSA know and when did they know it?” an obvious refrain of the question frequently posed about President Richard Nixon during the Watergate scandal.
Both NHTSA and GM contend they used the delay to investigate the cause of the fire – which they also note occurred a full three weeks after the original Volt side-impact crash test. It now appears that the cause of the fire was a cup full of battery coolant fluid that leaked out after the battery pack was breached. After such side-impact tests, NHTSA puts a vehicle through what is commonly referred to as the “rotisserie test,” the vehicle slowly being rotated to permit hidden leaks to be found.
In this case, it appears that the fluid ultimately reached a circuit board on the top of the battery. Normally non-conductive, the coolant went through a chemical change over several weeks, eventually leading to a short and fire.
As part of the changes it announced this month, GM plans to add new crash protection to prevent penetration of the battery during a side impact. It is also modifying the circuit board system to prevent just such a short from occurring.
In a letter to the Detroit News, posted January 12th, Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood asserted that, “”No one from the Executive Office of the President requested or in any way suggested that NHTSA delay public release of information related to the Volt fire.”
Meanwhile, General Motors Chairman Dan Akerson has asked to appear at the Wednesday hearing and is expected to further downplay such conspiracy theories – while also underscoring the maker’s confidence in the safety of the vehicle.
Issa’s own political leanings could come under the microscope. The California conservative has been a sharp critic of the GM bailout and media colleague John Voelker today noted that Issa used Facbook recently to promote a New York Post article by Patrick J. Michaels, of the Libertarian Cato Institute, titled “GM’s flop in green,” which declared the Volt “one part lemon, one part taxpayer albatross.” It also brings up a variety of complaints alleging the White House has been calling the shots on the GM product line-up.
Ironically, the administration actually wanted to kill off the Volt – which it thought would lose money – along with four North American brands that were dropped after the GM bankruptcy.
The hearings are unlikely to result in any significant changes in policy, but the GOP will clearly see the event as a way to revive concerns about “Government Motors” and the controversial GM bailout. The White House and the maker itself are expected to counter by noting how GM is regaining market share and profitability while also hoping to highlight the message that Volt is safe.
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If anything, by mishandling the vehicle after the test, the NHTSA was trying to kill the Volt, not save it. No one, and I mean no one, stores a vehicle on its side after a crash and stays in it for three weeks. The Volt is completely safe in real-world conditions.
Hey Cane,
And when they are made in China I will feel a lot more confident in the safety of the car. Lucky me too, I only have a 8 mile commute to work so I can count on the Volt holding charge enough to make it at least to work. Probably have to walk home afterwards.
Thank goodness for the wisdom of our Gubamint Motas!!!
Looks like that new 1972 Vega I bought that lasted about 12,005 miles with a 12,000 mile warranty.
The Volt is supposed to go 44 miles on an overnight charge of 10 hours.
Is that really a good deal? It's light and would take less than 2 gallons of gas for 44 miles. Is the charge more expensive than the gas?
No, the charge costs about 7x less than 2 gallons of gas does. And, if charging on a 220 line it takes less than 4 hours for a full charge.
Time for government motors to face their masters. Of course they're more profitable now; they dumped their liabilities on the taxpayers.
Raging Capitalist
Wait you have a drivers license but can't put gas in a car, or is that you can't read?
Rational Brent to charge the Volts battery costs about $1.00 as opposed to 2 gallons of gas which will cost you over $6 ($6.60 at todays prices.) Thats a daily saving of $5+ and will only equal more savings as gas prices go up. Not to mention the time saving of not having to go to the gas station.
The savings of $5 a day which is a low ball number equal to savings of $1,300 a year in gas. Thats $6,500 over a 5 year span making the Volt less expensive in the long run than a Camry, Malibu, Accord if you match comparable vehicles. Keep in mind the Volt has leather, navigation, rear backup camera, and rear park assist on the $45,000 model. Figure $37,500 with the government tax break and that $30k Camry after 5 years will cost the same yet have less features (still wont have the backup camera or rear park assist.)
Why can't we be proud that an American Company is doing well?
Unity-354253 We are very proud of our Fords. They did not take a bailout or go bankrupt. I am a union worker but will never own a GM or Chry. product. Lets see GM took bailout and filed bankruptcy anyway. Why be proud!!
As a volt owner I get anywhere between half a cent to two cents per mile. Meaning I would have to drive 180 miles-660 miles to equal the price of 1 gallon of gas (assuming $3.60 per gallon). Electricity is way more efficent, cheaper, and ultimately cleaner.
Even if you dont believe in global warming, the lack of cancer causing exahust and the lack of noise (its dead silent) is good for us all.
Unity, the answer is simple. Most Americans are some really stupid people who believe they are better than everyone in the world. These idiots don't know what unity means. Their thoughts are dictated by what politicians says. This is exactly why it is they are so easily taken advantage of.
Why does it cost $45,000 for that car? Why would you need a back up camera or park assist for something that small? These are $15,000 to $18,000 dollar cars that people are stupid enough to pay 3 times as much for? I'm all for alternative energy but the price is ridiculouis. You can't even take a family trip
David - did the electricity you put into the Volt come from a coal-fired power plant? Gas-fired? Nuclear? You have simply transferred the pollution from your tail-pipe to the local power plant!
As for the dead silence, studies are showing an increase of distracted pedestrians walking in front of electric cars and getting hit because they "could not hear the oncoming car".
Man, the moniker of Government Motors for GM really plays out well now..... here's why:
The Government takes over GM, relieves it's investors from all power, restructures the company in a way it thinks is "better", dumps a load of tax dollars into the company to keep it afloat, provides government "stimulus" and loans to the company- which they used the stimulus to pay off the loans and claim that they are in better shape, dumps a load of tax dollars into "incentives" to promote a GM product that is priced well out of the public's interests, the cars don't sell and car dealerships don't want to have any on the lot, when there is a problem with the car the government provides a "buy back incentive."
Doesn't that sound like just about EVERY government program??? We've got to have that program, we've got to spend on that program, we've got to spend more on that program even though it's not working properly, we are going to change regulations to make sure the program starts to work, then spend some more, and finally just stop promoting it and maybe it'll go away (even though we'll keep spending on it).
David, great to hear your Volt story. The only issue I have with that is that there is no infrastructure to support everyone turning from petroleum cars to electric cars. In fact, the government is quickly constricting the electrical supply chain, while promoting the use of more energy in our transportation system. Seem a bit off?
I have no problem investing in America. If my tax dollar kept millions of Americans working, I'm proud to have been a part of it. I don't believe we should make a practice of helping large corporations, but it was the thing to do at the time. Just be proud you were able to help your neighbor when they needed it the most and go on.
Make them in America with American parts like the Camero and they'll run like a Top..
Neal in Denver: Yeah, one has to burn energy to create the electricity, but how much is used to refine gasoline, then transport from the refinery to the depot, and then to the gas station? If someone is too distracted to look before walking into a street, they're just as likely to get hit by a gas-burning car.
Here we go the republican Bots can take their daily shots all in here. So go ahead genuflect all you like to the foreign car makers who wanted to build their cars in the south with all that practically free labor source from south America.
"I don't believe we should make a practice of helping large corporations, but it was the thing to do at the time. Just be proud you were able to help your neighbor when they needed it the most and go on."
Thank you for this comment. As we all know the GM Chrysler bailout was a good thing and worked like a charm. Only reason oit wasneeded was because the abnks were not able to lend because they were in the tank. Of course short mided people ignore that fact when they critisize the move but they are the same ones who claim it was democrats that bailed out the banks so what do they know
Lusitania, I agree with your sentiment it would be great to have a car made in America with 100% American made parts. However the camaro is made at Oshawa Car Assembly in Canada.
Hey peanut gallery the tax payer is a owner. The tax payers did not get liabilities dump on us . Your statement is wrong.Hey Brian1756723 it's big enough and has the range to take my family on a trip.
Honestly if Obama did not bail them out NO ONE would be saying a damn thing ...... True Fact ...
Don't pretend to be a patriotic American OR a capitalist if you're whining about prefering a Chinese car over one made in the good old USA.
As for the fools whining about socialism and calling GM "government motors", the misleadingly titled 'bailout' took place in the form of LOANS and STOCK PURCHASES at the insistence of our free market minded President and his economic advisors from the conservative Chicago school of economics. Most all of the LOANS have been paid back with interest, and there is still stock to be sold to recover the rest.
In the meantime, an awful lot of American jobs were saved, not just at GM, but at the parts makers, the windshield makers, the paint manufacturers, and the people who sell groceries and clothes in all of the neighborhoods surrounding the car plants, the parts factories, the transporters, etc.
It was silly Republican politicians who were going to make it a bailout until candidate Obama went to Washington and twisted arms to get taxpayer protections.
NATIONALIZING the auto industry would have been socialism. Thanks to President Obama, we found a FREE MARKET solution instead.
Too jealous, or just don't understand it?
Sounds like the Volt is a good car.
Good for the economy, good for the environment, good for our balance of trade.
No wonder Republican politicians are worried.
Better a car made in North America with North American parts than a Lexus, which has ZERO parts made in North America.
A lot of the money that goes to Canada or Mexico comes back to the US.
The Volt is an expensive car! I am looking at a Ford Focus electric at about the same price. Why pay that price when I can buy a 2012 Ford Focus for 20,000. Does not make since. I like the idea of electric vehicles but not at that price.
I see whether a car is made in Canada or the U.S as splitting hairs. Commonsense, didn't I see on MSNBC where they are going to build a Lexus model in Ohio? Or was that Acura? I know that it was a Japanese luxury car brand. It's past time that when we open ourselves to imported cars and imported companies for that matter, that those same companies are allow to export freely to the home countries of the imported cars, and allowed to build factories over there on the same basis that the international have been allowed to do here. The old stuff about how no U.S. company builds anything suitable for overseas markets is dated B.S. now. Buick is already the preferred luxury brand in China -- what if we could export them there with no more restrictions or tariffs than Chinese stuff faces here?
Volt is even worst that my old Chevette. We the taxpayers are subsidizing with 10, 000 dollars per car, in order to sell this car. The president that say is for the poor is giving 10,000 taxpayers dollars to millionairs like Leonardo Di Carpio so he can drive his Volt, this is outrageous how far can go his ideology.
Wade
You are wrong, when someone or something buys a business they buy assets and liabilities together, so the liabilities were dumped on them.
Oskar, have you been equally outspoken against the tax money given away every year to the oil industry? With the approximately ten billion dollars in give always they receive every year the government could buy about 225,000 people a brand new Volt every year.
I need a shovel for all of the BULL$H*T coming from the "experts" on this thread. The Volt is an Extended Range Electric Vehicle or Advanced Hybrid, with considerable (40+ miles) electric only capability but also an onboard generator to avoid having to stop and recharge it for trips (that's the extended range part).
It may be too expensive and it may not be that much more efficient than a parallel hybrid, but most of the other criticism is unwarranted. Any advanced new car (hybrid, EV or EREV) is going to require some additional attention after a collision compared to a traditional car, but that doesn't mean they're unsafe !!
drive a volt thru watts...
it's shocking...simply shocking...
@plain bob - there's a lot of potential in watt you say, although you can expect some resistance from people without the capacitance to see your point. But you've got my vote for the Newsvine hall of fame - heck, I'll induct you myself.
I'm getting all amped up ...
Socket to us Rlquall; charge ahead ....
I'd buy one!
Yeah, but would you buy one if not subsidized with MY tax dollars. GM is at the bottom of the poo pile in its (excuse me) our electric technology. A not ready for prime time car with too much complexity and little to no ecological value, and 80% bought by who else? the White House.
Lord Foxdrake:
Remind me not to ask you for investment advice!
Yo Robin, did you miss reading this above: Ironically, the administration actually wanted to kill off the Volt – which it thought would lose money – along with four North American brands that were dropped after the GM bankruptcy.
It's a "damned if you do, damed if you don't" situation. Had the administration not gotten the bailout of the automotive industry, then the "GOP/teahadists" would be blaming Obama for letting a major industry fail.
That's why govt is supposed to say out of picking winners and let the market figure that out. Instead, the losers get a "get out of death penalty" card and keep on going-- just like in any other socialist economy.
Lord Foxdrake, your comment disqualifies you!
How can they lose money if they are asking 45K on a vehicle that probably doesn't cost half that much to build.
Hey peanut gallery how much government help did Toyota get. Their government and ours are a big reason why they are so successful. It's about jobs and wealth for the middle class not the rich and wall street. Because they could careless about the American middle class.
Commonsense, uh huh, you neglected to mention tha the price of the Gm stock would have to double to pay back what they owe the taxpayers.
You also didn't mention the $7500 dollars it costs us taxpayers to subsidize them.
You also didn't mention the fanny kicking that the stockholders too when Obama scr#ewd them to hand 10% of GM to the UAW.
We didn't forget though, we will have a Grand Jury waiting for Obama as soon as he is out of office next year or 5 years, we will be waiting.
Do some of you realize what a lemon and piece of crap the volt is? First, obama and his people made a deal with GM. We will bail you out, if you produce the Volt. The Volt was slated to be mothballed and never put in to production. Second, my place of employment bought one. We are getting only 20 - 25 miles per charge. It is a a $40,000 car that most people can not afford. Let's not forget about the cost of a replacement battery for the Volt. $8,000 for a new one. The battery may only last 100,000 miles. That means in 8 years, when you want to sell the car, you will get nothing for it, since it will be ready for a new battery and will cost $8,000. How is this for an obama green turd?
buy two and call a taxi...the battery died...
Hey Bennie123 that is the same subsidize amount they gave on Prius. The Prius is built in Japan and the Volt id built in United States. I didn't hear you complain when those people were getting their subsidy on a car built in other country. Way to go and support all those non tax paying workers in other countries building the Prius. I am sure none of those workers will be spending their pay checks in U.S. support us.
What is Congress doing in this discussion??Don't we have agencies to deal with this issue??? Tell tehm to get something done for all the people not just the car owners. Give me a break. This is what happens when you have a full time Congress. Get to work.
This is selective GOP governing. GOP says no to big government operations EXCEPT when they might be able to use it to twist the realty of this 'car' situation into a poor reflection on the prez.
The performance of this Congress is on a par with the performance of the Volt - can't get anywhere and when there's a bump in the road, they explode.
The Volt's not the worst car ever assembled, but this is the worst Congress ever assembled.
What are you talking about? Iv driven my volt for thousands of miles without a single hiccup. Its an amazing and extremely well built car. So much so that my entire family is switching over to the volt (former Lexus owners)
They really though of EVERYTHING when they designed this car.
Just slap me (how appropriate). I'm guessing that you receive taxpayer money from the government in one fashion or another. Only a truly ignorant person would say that the motive is to cast a poor reflection on the prez. Obama does not need anyone to to point out that he bumbles everything he touches. Even Chris Matthews doesn't get that tingle up his leg anymore.
As for the Volt, we don't need a taxpayer subsidized vehicle. The free market would take care of that if given the opportunity.
Thy are, they are looking to see if the quasi socialist in the white house directed the coverup on the Volt.
I agree; this is a blatantly ridiculous political activity with no bearing on the safety of the vehicle or the manner in which this situation was handled by the agencies tasked with it. The Volt is the first of a new breed of electric vehicles, yet even in real world after several crashes, no fires were reported. It was only when procedures were not followed in a lab that a problem was found, yet it was not repeatable when tried inside multiple production vehicles. The battery packs had to be removed from the Volt to simulate the condition that precipitated the original complaint. In spite of that, GM ran the problem to the ground, analyzed potential situations that could cause this, and provided a free repair to all vehicles - how in the good wide world does that require the CEO to appear before Clowngress .... unless they required the CEO of Toyota to show up and take notes on how product issues should be addressed.
They ARE showing the way to address a perceived problem once it comes out, even an apparently-contrived one such as this. You get out in front of it and do more than what is required rather than try to meet minimum requirements begrudgingly.
Look in the mirror for an example of ignorance JTG. GM is #1 and the GOP has to find fault with that and lay it on the president.
Nice try with the talking points. Just more distract and deflect strategy by the GOP. Kinda like your 'no subsidies' suggestion now for the auto industry. A change from the GOP demand for subsidies for the oil industry?
Just another confused GOPer. Go figure.
"Issa used Facbook recently to promote a New York Post article by Patrick J. Michaels, of the Libertarian Cato Institute, titled “GM’s flop in green,” which declared the Volt “one part lemon, one part taxpayer albatross.”
Why do Republicans' hate real Americans? Not everybody can be uber rich. Why not live and let live, why all the hate, vitriol, and "screw you" mentality from the GOP?
The Volt is a waste. Issa is looking out for you alarmar.
Do the research. Find out how many miles you get on a charge and how long the charge takes.
(I already know and it aint worth it)
Issa. Now there's a shining example of what's wrong in politics, what's wrong with the GOP, why the 99%ers need a voice in government, and why anyone making under $100,000 should not vote republican.
Mine takes less than 4 hours to charge on the 220V line and costs less than a dollar in electricity. That gets me back and forth to work on a single charge (a total of 47 miles roundtrip), I've used about 7 gallons of gas in 3400 miles. So, "rational", I've more than done the research and I'm perfectly happy with my decision. Maybe you don't know as much as you claim.
You mean a shining example of what happens when the government gets involved with the private sector. The fed controls a third of GM's shares so holding back on any of the Volt's problems until the quarterly eanings report, would have a negative effect on the stock. You know how it works, the President clears his throat and the price of gold jumps! $100,000 JustSlapMe? I thought the president said anyone making over $250,000 was wealthy? Still you seemed to have raised the bar at 100K because I always thought anyone who worked for the government or was on public aid was automatically required to vote Democrat!
Rational Brent you dont know anything if you think the Volt isnt worth it. You prove that you do not understand basic mathematics if you think the Volt would cost more than a Malibu Camry or Accord.
People like you only look at the up front cost of something. You dont look at the overall costs which is why it is soo easy for me as a salesman to sell the Volt. When I take the cost of a fully loaded Camry Malibu or Accord I show the customer how after 5 or 6 years you actually come out saving money. Funny thing is if you take the 6 cylinder model of any of those 3 which is the closest comparison to the acceleration of the Volt it takes less than 5 years to be equal cost wise.
NineT - I have been on three different comparison sites and no electric or hybrid beats the cost of my 2000 Civic ... for the next 10-15 years and the Volt will take 25 years. I have serious doubts about buying a car that will take 25 years (or even 10) to recoup my initial investment. Most of the comparisons I see are the Volt to the Camry, Malibu or Accord, in other words luxury models. Yet people keep telling me to buy a Volt because it will save me money and the environment at the same time. It will do neither. The majority of the electricity going into the Volt today comes from coal-fired power plants. No pollution savings there. I do applaud those who have the itsy bitsy commutes and therefore save so much gas, but for the majority of commuters even 50 miles on charge is way too little. Don't tell me to move because that will cost more than the commute in the long run.
Nine,
Write back when your Volt reaches 5 years of age (if its still running). The Volt, the Fisker..all this crap wouldn't exit without taxpayers being hosed for the incentives. Left to its own devices government (it matters not which type of government) will fiind a way to screw up just about anything it comes near. The government has even managed to screw up the proverbial " free" lunch! The Volt is a loser and only pin heads and holier than thou greemies will buy them. The Fisker will be a ditto on that. The Nissan Leaf sells better by far but really is just a sop for the green crowd to make them feel good about Nissan and hopefully entice them to buy their second GAS car from Nissan. The efficiency, convenience and durability of today's gas powered vehicles is so superior to the available electric cars there is only disbelief we actually have idiots that will buy electric. Five years out these Volt buyers will be kicking their own asses for being such fools to fall for this junk. However being mostly dedicated lefty ideologues they will not complain (anything for the cause you know). GM is the result of a leftist president helping out the "proletariat" with my money of course and your grandchildren will be still be paying for his action 50 years from now. The Volt is only a symptom of this illness.
Yes we understand that you democrats would like to keep people down and dependant on your hand outs. If they were to develop an independence from your entitlements then they might start thinking for themselves.
The current processes for turning coal into electricity are not even getting 40% of the energy value inherent in the coal, and that's before all of the transmission losses, so that saying internal combustion engines are inefficient, while true, is somewhat misleading. Increasingly, electricity is being generated with natural gas, but it would be far more efficient just to use the gas as a domestic energy source and as a motor vehicle fuel in the form of CNG (compressed natural gas) rather than the inherently inefficient process of burning it to produce electricity. Would love to see studies about total "greehouse" emissions for a fleet of CNG vehicles vs. an equal-sized fleed of similarly-sized electric vehicles. Results would be very informative.
FYI - For those who do not know:
Approximately 3 btus of coal, gas, oil, or natural gas are required to produce 1 btu of electricity. Think about the effect this has on the environment (which you 'environmentalists' pay lip service to without understanding anything at all about energy production). Now, consider the toxic waste from the batteries - all else being about equal.
So why do you believe that the all-electric cars are all that great? They actually put a heavier burden on the environment than a gasoline-powered vehicle.
Experts who actually have studied this, rather than you who does armchair calculations having no real understanding of energy, disagree with you.
I have to wonder though, do you believe that gasoline is free energy? That it comes out of the ground ready to power your vehicle, that 1 unit of power of oil produces 1 unit of power of propulsion for your car?
Check your sources -- it takes far greater than 4btus to power your car.
Do us a favor and stop thinking, and start researching. You'll come out smarter and won't make a fool of yourself.
Now consider that it takes 7-10kwh of electricity to extract, transport, refine and pump one gallon of gas. The gallon of gas will take an "average" ICE 30 miles, the electricity used to produce it will take a Tesla roadster (229 Wh/mile) 31-40 miles. Ie gas cars consume at least as much and possibly more electricity then electric cars and the gas is just a bonus.
So fenderbender, you don't want government involvement yet you want government to investigate and lay blame. Did you really look at this witch-hunt of a test on the Volt. Your okay with the cost outlay on that piece of crap test that proved nothing. Now you want more government involvement and expense on your 'holding back on problems with the Volt' that the tests could not prove?
You're right. That is a shining example of what's wrong with government involvement in the private sector.
And on what you thought - you thought wrong. Another confused GOPer. Go figure.
I always like it when congress want to question a major corporation, on the street we call it a shake down but in D.C. congress calls it a hearing. not to worry the lobbyist will be there for sure, to take care of any problems.
Wait a minute didn't Obama take over GMC?
So why aren't we calling him in to question for making over priced,faulty cars?!
No really,who owns the largest shares in GMC?
If you actually price out a comparable Toyota or Honda vehicle you will find out the Chevy is generally a little less expensive.
GM had the fewest recalls in 2011. #1 and #2 were Honda and Toyota at over 3 million vehicles recalled each. GM had 500,000. Guess they arent soo faulty after all are they?
You may want to do some research before you run your mouth about things you know nothing of.
I switched my Lexus RX 330 for a chevy volt and have never been happier. American Cars are comming back, they are more reliable and are more innovative then the Japense counterparts.
David, and what about their German counterparts. I do not think we can just pit American cars to Chinese cars to get a full picture we must take into account, BMW, Porsche, Audi etc...
Absolutely! I would put a German or European model up against any of them. I switched to BMW from American cars in 1994 and have never looked back. The first one is still in our family and other then tires, brakes and windshield wipers is humming like a champ. I was 100% buy American (child of a life long union worker) until they just became junk. Still am buy American other than cars. So yes I believe the above mentioned should be in the mix.
I sure hope Ford does a better job of positioning and making their Ford Cmax Energi PHEV batteries more durable and sell at a more reasonable price or PHEV's are never going to take hold in America.
GM kills the electric car--again!
Great to hear Republican Rep Issa is now concerned about consumers after he and his party tried to stop
the new Consumer Protection agency legislation and thwarted the appointment of a director. Watch what these zealots do and not what they say !
Yea, shame we don't have any other agencies such as the NHTSA. What we really need is another money sucking agency that does nothing and cost millions of dollars for nothing. Maybe we can call it the Department of Energy, oh wait that is already taken...
The big bonus deal is still going on at GM and the tax payers are sill paying for them. Thanks congress and Obama for wasting our money.
RON PAUL !!!!
What big bonus deal are you talking about?
Are you aware that GM has hired close to 10,000 workers since their exit from Chapter 11? How is that wasting money? Not to mention GM is forcing other companies to make a better product which helps the consumer.
Do you honestly think anyone would have brought out their electric vehicles had it not been for GM announcing the Volt would be brought out? Heck no! Electric cars are out because of GM.
NineT - hired close to 10,000 after laying off how many? 30,000+? You do realize that the major real reason for the bailout was to save as many union jobs as possible and thus unwilling contributors to the DNC coffers? Electric cars are out because there is a large enough market for them and the Volt is not an electric car, it is a hybrid. It was advertized as an electric but is has a gasoline engine in it, making it a hybrid.
I guess congress doesn't have anything else more important to do, like say finding a solution to the collapsing economy or fixing illegal immigration, or finding viable solutions to the ever escalating national debt. Congress is a freekin JOKE! They all need to be removed from their postions!
44 miles on a charge is sh*t. I wouldn't take one if you gave it to me.....If we can't make a car that goes at lest 300 miles it ain't worth it.
The Volt does go over 300 miles. The Leaf is the one that doesnt.
Before you run your mouth about the Volt go drive one. It will amaze you and you wouldnt say that you wouldnt take one if given to you. That vehicle is soo far advanced beyond anything else on the road.
OMG! The car ONLY does 44 miles before the GASOLINE GENERATOR takes over and helps recharge the batteries. All you right-wing zealots just salivating over the mere mention of one of your dog whistle terms, like "Volt," please actually try and read something at least slightly impartial, and try to really think for once about an issue before you start hurling your stupid epithets, like "Gub'mint Motors."
You REALLY think Darrell Issa, the only convicted felon in Congress, is looking out for you and not just looking for another smear on the White House? And would you really have been that much happier to see the U.S. government stand idly by as 2 million American jobs go down the toilet? I'm ashamed of my fellow Americans, who hate the government until they lose their job or insurance, and now want "their" handout.
NineT - I have driven a Volt and still would not buy one at half the price. The Volt only goes 300 miles because it has a gasoline backup and thus is not an electric.
NineT, it does not get over 300 miles on a charge. Where on this earth do you get your facts from? It only gets 300 miles when the charge runs out and the gas takes over. How do I know? My place of employment bought one. At best, it has only gotten 25 miles per charge, not the pathetic 30 that it was claimed to be. It is a $40,000 vehicle that most Americans can not afford to buy. The battery catches on fire in certain accidents. The battery costs $8,000 to replace and only lasts about 100,000 miles. This is a vehicle that GM was going to mothball and only put it in to production when obama made a deal with them to bail out the corporation. Also, this is a car that if sales do not increase, GM is going to mothball anyways!!!!
There is another one of the governments forces on companies, just to have them turn around and damn the companies for following government bureaucracies.....
You guys read into this way to far. It is the first generation Volt, of course there will be problems. I would still buy one if the price was better in a second and pass every gas station to and from work........everyday!!
You said the magic words " if the price was right". Of course this car or others like them are not for everyone, but if they were affordable to use as commuter cars people would drive them
Brian, is your employer willing to let you and your coworkers plug in your cars at the employers expense? Not going to find this in most businesses. I drive 35 miles to work. The Volt my company bought would not even get me to work, one way. At best, this piece of crap has gotten 25 miles to a charge and now is getting about 20 miles to a charge.
The government has shown that by overstepping its authority by propping up GM with taxpayer money that they now find themselves in the undeniable situation of having a conflict of interest.
Does anyone believe that this administrations wouldn't sacrifice a few lives to protect their political interests?
Like the previous one?
My goodness, GM must be shaking in their shoes. Having to report to the group that America hates and has no faith in, complete inept @!$%#s in Congress.
Two questions for everyone who believes these crap-mobiles are environmentally friendly:
(1) Where does the energy needed to charge the batteries come from?
(2) How do you dispose of the batteries once they are dead?
(1) From sulfur spewing coal fired plants?
(2) You drain the fluid out and pour it down the drain and then you dispose the carcass in a landfill?
(1) a plug in the wall of the garage
(2) drop it off at your house
1)It comes from the clean wind powered generators that the Democrats have allowed to be built in front of their beautiful ocean front property.
2)Stop in the inner city with them in the back of your truck and go have lunch. When you come back the batteries will be gone and maybe even your truck...
(1)steal the juice to charge it at work , (2) sell the battery as scrap metal,or short it out for a nice pink purple toxic fireworks inferno ,then scrap the remains
1. from non-polluting nuclear plants.
2. The battery is recyclable, like any other lithium battery.
The energy comes from your household electrical outlet. You dont complain about where the juice to power your television comes from why are you making an issue of it to recharge your cars battery?
You know your house recharges your ipad or laptop and even cell battery and you dont complain about that. Or the battery from those devices when they go bad why do you think the Volt is any different besides it being a bigger battery?
How to dispose of them well like all other batteries they can be recycled. I hope you dont just throw your batteries away, here where I live they are picked up with the other recycleables and they are recycled.
Mark...no go on the scrapmetal. It's a lithium-ion, not a lead acid design.
Fusion power has the potential, overcoming the oil boys to get the scientists and engineers going full bore is the real challenge. There's also some ideas about using the earths movement through the universe.
Of course, these are only 'off the wall ideas' because they weren't thought up by some politician 'that thinks big' and has 'grand ideas'.
We need some breakthrough genius on this.....a modern day Tesla or Edison to show up and help us.
Is it true that we've never used most of the ideas that Tesla left or is that just conspiracy theory?
The amount of energy used by my television set is negligible compared to that needed to operate a motor vehicle on a daily basis, so I would suggest that it is a very pertinent question.
Obama got us in the car business and now he wants to control the PR spin as CEO of Obama Motors. GM should have been allowed to tank and disappear, but the too big to fail mentality and bailouts are coming home to roost. gotta get Barry out of the White House.
And you think the roughly 1 - 2 million jobs lost would have helped the U.S. how?
Are you aware GM has hired more workers since emerging from chapter 11 protection than all the Japanese companies combined?
Are you aware GM builds more cars in the US than any other manufacturer? Are you aware GM has 13 assembly plants in the US? Toyota and Honda have 4 each.
Do you have any idea of how many jobs would have been lost if GM was allowed to tank? Or don't you care? The government provided a LOAN to GM to keep the jobs alive. And by the way, GM has already paid back that loan, so spare me your republican BS! What a simpleton!!
But but but but........it's Obama's fault damn it!! No....wait....that's a good thing.....Obama didn't have anything to do with it!! No....wait......get Obama out of the White House.....Yeahhhhhh.....that's it! Now I'm on message!
Sheesh!
And GM made thousands of jobs in China before they made the jobs in America. Same place Jeffery is taking the other big G company (GE).
Silent -- it wasn't just a loan. The government assumed a majority of the equity (stock) in the company; the old stockholders were wiped out, as the bondholders (creditors) likewise almost were. The government is still the largest single shareholder. Only the UAW was held harmless, so to speak, as its health insurance trust fund still has a large equity stake, unlike the other previous owners.
If we had lost GM and Chrysler we would most likely also have lost Ford as collateral damage. Not only would there have been millions of jobs lost, the suppliers would too have be decimated and that would have forced the foreign automakers that assemble cars here to source even more parts from overseas. We would never have regained an automobile industry, the investment required to replace GM, Chrysler, and maybe Ford would have been a trillion dollars or more and that is simply beyond the startup investment market. So what would have happened is that we would be more reliant on imports, which would deepen our trade deficit, further draining the money supply, and requiring the government to spend even more deficit spending (which is how they create money to replace the money that paid for all the imports). The trade deficit is the root of all our problems in the US as it is a massive wealth drain - we need to fix it, not add to it.
Doesn't congress have anything better to do.I guess not..The car was cleared..Start fixing the country..
As an engineer, this is maddening. Ever product has issues, but when politicians who know nothing get involved, they make mountains out of molehills. A few years ago I was blamed for a bridge construction project delay. The politicians were furious. The reality was that I had written some software for the legislature and we had some teething problems the first day it was deployed. Their urgency bill to fund the bridge was delayed by a few hours while we worked out the issues - which was not unexpected for a very large new system. So suddenly my few hour delay turned into the reason a bridge construction project was years behind schedule. Politicians are the most incompetent and useless people on this planet.
I can't read this string without making a comment. First to "Raging Capitalist". You clearly don't understand the technology in the Volt. It is the ONLY car in the new electric vehicle line-up that can re-charge its batteries in two ways, one by the traditional plug in and the other by the small gasoline powered alternator that can run the electric motors and re-charge the batteries simultaneously. That is why the car can go 100 miles on just a battery charge and then an additional 300 miles while running the gasoline alternator. At the end of the 400 miles the batteries will be fully charged you just need to stop at your friendly gas station and fill up with about 10 gallons of gas. That is why the Volt can get such high "mpg" ratings. Or you could buy a Nissan Leaf from the Japanese company and get a whopping 40 to 50 miles per battery charge and take up to two hours to re-charge with no gasoline back up system. With the Leaf you will be looking for a ride home.
Now as for "Robin Steele". Do you not know anything about advanced technology? The Volt is the only production car that has all electric propulsion that does not require a plug-in recharge. The Toyota Prius line up is just what it says, "Hybrid technology". The electric motors only run a speeds less than 40 mph. The Nissan Leaf line up, while all electric has no back up propulsion system so when the batteries die you must plug in for up to two hours before you can drive again.
To let you both know that I am not a "GM Honk" the Volt has a significant problem simply PRICE. At $40,000 the savings in gas can't come close to justifying the car. Simply put, our U.S. automakers must come up with a car like the Volt with backup gasoline systems or finally perfect the fuel cell to power the electric motors. At a competitive price to the existing internal combustion engine.
Since you have to carry a spare gas motor to generate electricity to charge the battery lets just eliminate the batteries and generator and directly power the wheels with the motor. I saved about 1300 lbs, reduced the parts and saved about 20K dollars. But that makes sence and with the government involved it doesn't have to make sence or even turn a profit...
...and by removing all of that you've reduced the efficency from 250+ MPG to around 50 mpg. Great planning there buddy. Not to mention but you will ALWAYS be using gas with your plan. With my volt I only use gas when I drive very far.
Actually the generator doesnt charge the battery while driving.
Kent Salmen actually the battery weighs around 400 pounds and the thing called a generator that you want to remove is the gas engine so in reality you would drop roughly 500 pounds of weight but you would be using a much less efficient system. That battery not using gas is how the car saves you money. If using the generator only the vehicle would go roughly 50 miles per gallon but you would always be using gas so there would NEVER be any savings of not having to fill up gas.
Kent Salmen actually the battery weighs around 400 pounds and the thing called a generator that you want to remove is the gas engine so in reality you would drop roughly 500 pounds of weight but you would be using a much less efficient system. That battery not using gas is how the car saves you money. If using the generator only the vehicle would go roughly 50 miles per gallon but you would always be using gas so there would NEVER be any savings of not having to fill up gas.
Sorry to confuse most of you. I was making a joke about having a gas engine onboard to generate electricity to power an electric motor. I was guessing on the weight. However a few serious points to ponder...David Hakki- 250MPG to 50 MPG is Bull SH**! The car doesn't get 250MPG bucause it isn't running on gas so MPG isn't an accurate representation. Based on your statement I could get infinite MPG if I never used the battery. To NINT93- The generator is not the gas engine. The gas engine actually turns an electric generator making electricity to charge the batteries. Believe me as I actually have an Electrical Engineering degree! On a more serious note without government subsidies I doubt the car would be worth it. The cost compared to the same model in gas and factoring in the replacement cost of batteries I doubt if there is any savings when comparing overall cost over the life of the car. When technology cates up and the cost of batteries and replacement goes down then this may be a cost saver but now it isn't so that is why the government is having to give tax incentives because some of us are actually smart enought to figure actual operating cost over the life of the vehicle.
Patrick, you are so wrong!!!! This battery is being touted for going 30 miles on a charge. My place of business bought one and the best it has gotten is 25 miles and is currently getting 20 miles on the last charge. How can you make a terribly wrong statement that it gets 100 miles. You need to read up before making the statement. It is on the internete. It only recharges the battery if mountain mode and the battery is nearly depleted. But, GM has stated that this is the most inefficient mode.
http://translogic.aolautos.com/2010/08/24/yes-the-2011-chevy-volt-will-charge-its-battery-via-mountain-m/
Also, Patrick according the following article, you have to plug in the vehicle to charge it. Please find an article saying it can be charged another way and not have to plug it in. Again, the Volt we have has to be plugged in to recharge
http://jalopnik.com/5335042/how-to-plug-in-your-chevy-volt and there is no other way.
Also, keep in mind that GM was never going to build the Volt. It was being shelved. When obama and his people bailed GM out, the Volt was part of the deal. Now, GM is saying that if sales do not increase, it will stop production. The replacement battery costs $8,000 to buy a new one and that does not count the mechanics cost.
I would like to hear some more facts on the statement "Ironically, the administration actually wanted to kill off the Volt – which it thought would lose money – along with four North American brands that were dropped after the GM bankruptcy." as I don't believe this! Remember it was the Obama administration that forced the head of GM to step down and replaced him with somebody that had no experience in the auto industry. Then the government bought a bunch if it's fleet vehicles making GM's sales nymbers aftificially better than what they were. I also don't agree with a fire 3 weeks after a crash being a design flaw. If you are dumb enough to let the power system connected after a crash then what do you expect. That is about a dumb as poking holes in the bottom of a milk jug and then wondering why milk is spilt on the floor... This electric car is a turd even with government incentives and an even bigger pile of crap without! Put this on the pile with Solandra. At least it wasn't any of my money on this bad idea..... What is was my money %$??#@@@ I gotta go.
Uhh Rick Wagoner was replaced by Fritz Henderson who had been with GM since college. Nice try but WRONG AGAIN!
You seem to be wrong everytime you open your mouth from what I have been reading.
When did the government buy a bunch of GM Fleet vehicles? Since chapter 11 GM has reduced Fleet sales from 30% to under 20% unlike Ford and Crapsler. Crapsler hasnt made money since they came out of Chapter 11 because their 30% sales increases are from Fleet customers which you make little to no money off of. GM has sales increases at the retail level.
Go drive the Volt before you run your mouth about it. That vehicle will blow your mind.
http://green.autoblog.com/2010/04/01/u-s-government-to-purchase-first-100-chevy-volts-and-thousands/
UPDATE: GM has responded to the suggestion that the first 100 Volts will go to U.S. government fleets by stating,
We are pleased to see that the Federal government is interested in the greening of their vehicle fleet. Media speculation has led to reports that the GSA and DOE will be buying the first 100 Chevrolet Volt's because we will meet this criteria. At this time we have no further details regarding these purchases.
Sorry, wasn't refering to FritzMr. Obama's "car czar," Steven Rattner, a Wall Street investment banker, rejected GM's reorganization plan and ousted its CEO, Rick Wagoner. He was replaced on an interim basis by Ed Whitacre, who had built Southwestern Bell into the behemoth of the telecom industry (moving the firm out of St. Louis in process).
Sorry I wasn't more clear. But the volt is still a turd.
NineT930thTA
Hey Pinhead. Chrysler just OUTSOLD everybody last quarter FACT. Chrysler paid back the money for the bailout BEFORE they had to FACT. Chrysler has taken the technology they added when Mercedes owned them and have put out a more reliable and luxurious care than ever before.
Don't come on here slandering Mopar when It's my shift baby. I'd take a MOPAR in a heartbeat over the other two of the so called big three.
Maybe in the old days. Now they're domestic FIATs. Whoopee!
Less than 5 cents a mile on my 40 mile comute using all-American electricity. A 37 mile "full charge" costs me about $1.20. And I can drive it across country on gas at 37 mpg if I want. It's a technological marvel. No one else has anything close.
Stop with the "Government Motors" already. Let's get over the UAW bailout and rally behind a great American company. GM's number one, again.
Issa sets the trap, congress and about 30 people on here take the bait, the trap snares the suckers, and once again places like China move one more step up the ladder.
Yep, politics is like football, a watse of time and money, that justgoes back and forth.
edward -- what's your alternative? You just decide everything for us yourself? Glad that there's more than one viewpoint; we're not North Korea (at least not yet!).
lol"real world conditions" of course lithium ion batteries are going to react with moisture ! and violently too ,its basic chemistry :P
Just another Republican trying to distract Americans from the real issues. The article said it is unlikely this will result in any policy change, but as long as King Cong. Issa can feel important about doing nothing, then that's just hunky dory.
Does anyone really think that the Administration would not want to be open and honest about the GM cars. The CEO was an Obama appointee. You don't think that has anything to do with it, do you ?
Don't forget that Mr.Obama said he would be transparent in all things, and you can count on him to be a man of his word, right ?
Dan Akerson the current CEO wasnt a government appointee. You need to get your facts straight before you run your mouth about things you dont understand.
Ed Whitacre was the CEO that the board choose after chapter 11 protection, but the government didnt appoint a single CEO the only thing they did was force Rick Wagoner to step down and he was replaced by the COO (corporate ladder structure) Fritz Henderson.
Mr. Obama's "car czar," Steven Rattner, a Wall Street investment banker, rejected GM's reorganization plan and ousted its CEO, Rick Wagoner. He was replaced on an interim basis by Ed Whitacre, who had built Southwestern Bell into the behemoth of the telecom industry (moving the firm out of St. Louis in process).
Sorry NineT but they did force Rick out and appointed Ed until they could find someone they could control.