The average hours worked is pulled down by the large number of people in various types of government jobs . They work very few hours and consider that the norm ( police and a few others work far more hours, but are compensated by large amounts of vacation and time off, no question some of their days are backbreakingly long, but overall average hours is very low ).

agree with MM: I work in Accounting and Financial management. We would think something's wrong if we worked a 42 hour week. Typically I have 40 in before I go home on Thursday. Plenty of years I did 2,500 hours or more. I can work 2,500 and still get charged with a day of leave if I am out a day. Go figure. BLS reported a couple years ago we had 20% of the US workforce are gubmint employees. I know many at State gubmint and if they hit 1,900 a year they fudged it. So many wether days off, vacation days, every national, state or bank day you can think of an they are off. I make more than most state employees and often hear them complain they don't get paid fairly because their private sector counterparts get a lot more. Even if it's not calculated as OT, a lot of these private sector base salaries are higher than Gubmint because they really do cover OT even if it's not spoken as such. Gubmint employees are jealous of the final W-2 but I never heard one say they are willing to do a 2,500 hour year to get there.

Government workers work LESS??? What an idiotic idea from another right wingnut who has no facts to support this claim. The primary workers in government work minimum 40 hour work weeks with many on furlough (not paid), increased workload, accepting pay cuts just to keep a job, pensions (other than Public Safety) averaging under $1500 month after 25 years of dediction to a LOCAL Employer. I live in Riverside County California and invite you or any other misinformed American Fox News listener to come with me and meet real Americans who work their butts off and give much free and unpaid time to help others and their communities. The numbers are what they are because PRIVATE INDUSTRY has cut pay, increased hours, ruined life long pensions through putting people in thestock market and ruining perfectly fine fixed benefit plans. See many small businesses hiring many people lately? Of cousrse not because PRIVATE INDUSTRY has socked away 3-4 TRILLION dollars for their own benefit. And the Republicans (with a couple of blue dog lackeys) want to get rich while working in government by screwing us. Wake up Boner and stop being the worst Speaker of the House EVER!

At age 59 and having been in the workforce since 1968 the number of weeks that I worked forty hours or less on average over the course of any given year can be counted on my fingers and maybe the toes of one foot.

BTW- I also happen to be one of those lefty liberals who thinks that because I've paid into Social Security ever since I was a junior in high school, that I'm "Entitled" to get something back out of it. What a concept, feeling entitled to your own damn money!

This is crazy stuff, man. Only in America would wage slaves boast by saying, "I work more hours than you, and for less pay!"

Slavery messes with the mind, apparently.

@ Dave quit posting bull@!$%# on your taxpayer supplied computer and get to work!!

There's a lot of jobs where hours aren't even recorded beyond the standard 40h week - no clocking in and out. Many workers take work home as well for even more hours un-recorded. A typical post doctoral research scientist works in excess of 60 hours/week and continues working from home writing papers and grants at all hours. The competitive nature of science demands a fast pace and long hours with little pay. Add onto that the six years of graduate school after college with outsized student loans and many post docs live paycheck to paycheck without any appreciable savings right into their 30's. Loan debts can run near $70,000 with paychecks averaging between $28,000-$34,000, below what this article says is average.

Thanks to the defunding of the NIH and other federal granting agencies most post docs struggle to find enough funding to maintain even this meager existence. The only hope is that a position may open up in a private sector job, but those are few compared to the number of scientists out there and chances are the position will be nullified within 5 years anyway. It isn't just a problem of the under-educated.

@IReadyou

I love these financial guys. They are always so self-centered. It must be a job requirement.

The hours that you work are nothing special Bud. People in medicine, law, IT, law enforcement, emergency services and retail usually work those sort of hours for less money (sometimes a lot less money).

You will excuse me if I don't think screwing the country out of $12 TRILLION due to the 2008 crash and the economic aftermath is my idea of productive.

My average work week on my normal schedule is 56 hours, and that's before the mandatory over time shifts get assigned. Its not uncommon for us to be forced to work 36 hours straight with the only sleep being sitting in the cab of the ambulance in a parking lot between calls, and we don't get the luxury of guaranteed meal(or even bathroom) breaks. Don't get me wrong I love my job, but it really is deserving of the top spot here. One of America's biggest problems is we value a pointless piece of paper(degree) way way way way more then we should. You could get an associates degree in the same amount of school it takes to become a Paramedic(2 years is 2 years either way not to mention my worthless history degree was way less actual work them my Paramedic certification), but since one is a certificate not the almighty degree we get paid way less.

It's called competition. Most of the low-paid jobs pay less because they do not require college. Face the facts. Human labor is plentiful and jobs are not. Immigrants from third world countries are now taking most of the blue collar jobs because they are willing to work for very little. Americans expect high pay and a grandiose standard of living.

Orly,...How do you expect the government to protect Americans from the 1%? I'm interested to hear your ideas.

I never understood, and STILL dont - why paramedics / EMTs are paid so badly. Here are the people that are first responders, scraping us off the roads, trying to keep us alive. Its an extension of the emergency room, and a paramedic can mean the difference between life and death. They have to see horrible things regularly (psychologically demanding) as well. The pay these people make is appaling, especially when they definitelyr require intense training for that job.

Simply because the job doesnt require a college degree is no reason to be paying these people so badly. Ambulance companies / hospitals pay a small fortune for a ride in an ambulance. I think WAY to much of that money is being pocketed as profit. It would not be such an insult to receive that ambulance bill if much of it was going to pay the lifesavers IN that ambulance!

More than any other job, I think its shameful what these people are paid. The jobs they work are just as stressful - or MORE, and just as demanding, as the emergency room nurse. I have NO idea why anyone even opts to work in this field given the outright insult of the wage they are paid.

If people would refuse to value themselves and their skills so poorly and opt for other lines of work, then perhaps the jerks sitting in the big cushy chairs who never have to see the carnage of a car wreck or listen to the screams of an injured and not yet pain-treated individual, would (be forced to) provide the kind of pay this intense job deserves.

And no, I do not work in this field, but I know a hard job that requires a high level of skill and training when I see it.

hey wingnut - let me guess... you consider a roof over one's head, heat, hot and cold water, a flushing toilet, electric lights, food enough for goood nutrition, and a car (lets face it - in most of these United States, it IS a necessity - if you need to perchance GO anywhere) - you consider these things "a gradiose standard of living"?

Perhaps it would be - if we were all living in grass and mud huts in the deepest darkest parts of Africa - but last I checked, theres not a buidling inspector anywhere in this country that will allow a man to live in a grass and mud hut without proper wiring and plumbing...

Work smart and hard in the US and you will be fine most of the time. There are always going to be exceptions, but for the most part there is ample opportunity in this country.

Of course, we are coming out of a deep recession and unemployment is currently high - but the economy will get back on track and unemployment will come back down again, and then those that work hard and smart will be rewarded again.

What planet do you live on Ron? Wake up...things have changed. The 1% have finally tilted the wheel completely in their favor while we were all asleep, drunk on the orgy of consumerism they created.

If you are well-educated and work hard, your job is still likely to go to India or China. I have an MBA and my job was offshored. Can't tell you how difficult it was to have to train someone over the phone to take over my job. Not because they could do it better, but because they were cheaper. I was lucky enough to find another job in a few months, even though I work for much less pay and longer hours. Many of my former co-workers, however, are still looking.

What you describe is called "Trickle down " . Works really well , doesn't it ?

Marie,

I agree changes in trade agreements are needed (mainly to protect unskilled labor), but if you look at the unemployment rate for college graduates that have been in the workforce a few years, it's basically full employment (I think it's something like 4.4%).

This statistic tells me opportunity still exists in the US for those that work hard and smart. I'm not saying it's as easy as it was a decade or two ago, or that there are not individual exceptions, but succeeding in the US now is not as difficult as some on these boards make it out to be.

Labor supply dictates the pay of any given occupation. People usually select a field because of an interest or desire to do a certain type of work. If everyone rejected a certain field of work this would stimulate a higher demand for said individual and the pay would become negotiable.

Example,: nurses. A few years ago the supply of hospital or clinical nurses was reaching a severe shortage level. A two year training program could prepare someone willing to meet the rigorous demands of this field. Depending on the part of the country , $70K plus benefits,overtime, contract work$$$bonuses.

Strength in numbers,....no I do not consider the normal daily needs items that you listed in your mud-hut analogy as lifestyle excesses. I think you know what I mean. Subprime mortgages to live in a castle, driving a Cadillac Escalade instead of an adequate but less flashy brand, I must have an in-ground pool because my neighbor does,.....

college = money

degree in specialized field with few applicants = more money

whining about the 1 % gets you nowhere. Get educated or fall behind. that simple folks.

Where do you live, Ron? I want to move there since things are so rosy where you live. Here college doesn't mean anything except you've been to college. Even a decades experience at skilled labor with a degree doesn't mean much anymore. The only way to have much of an advantage where I live is to know someone at the company where you are applying that is willing to help get you a job. Even then most people are working at big name companies as underpaid temps while waiting months or years to get hired on permanently. It's very demeaning to get laid off from a job and then rehired as a temp for the same position for a fraction of what you used to earn without any of the benefits that you used to have. It doesn't do any good to look for another job because all the other companies are doing the same thing with their employees. I wish I knew where to move to where things looked more promising but so far I'm seeing the same things everywhere I look.

Another,

I'm talking about national statistics. Anyone can always find anecdotal cases to backup a particular opinion, so I think it's useful to look at the situation across the entire country. The college educated employment rate doesn't mean everything is fine everywhere, but it does mean that it is in good shape overall.

As to declining wages, yes, that has happened. I don't have stats handy, but I'm pretty sure the decrease is in the single digits - which is not good, and hopefully that will reverse itself when we get the national rate down below 5% again in a few years.

By the way, the non-college rate is very bad, as is the rate for certain demographics (ex: returning military, youth in general and black people as a whole). I do agree we need to look at causes and potential solutions for these demographics.

My husband worked as an EMT for over 20 years, with stints as a volunteer firefighter on the side. He was trained in Farm rescue, crash fire rescue and many other specialties because he loved his job, loved the patients and took pride in knowing his business. Over the years he was invited to the funerals of many longtime patients because they had come to trust him.

For his dedication he was respected by the other EMTs, valued by the dispatchers and treated like an office supply by the companies he worked for. He never had health insurance, regardless of the size of the company. He worked for one outfit that required him to do 24 hour and overnight shifts but only wanted to pay him when he was on a call. He was only allowed a quick break to eat, when they actually gave him one.

In the beginning he was an emergency responder but when the people in the neighborhood started shooting at any vehicle with lights he switched routine transports. Eventually, he was fired by his last job because he had the nerve to tell a doctor to move his car. It was blocking the back of the ambulance and they couldn't the patient out.

These are the people you depend on but you'd be amazed at the state of mom and pop companies that provide a lot of the ambulances on the road. Employee turnover is high as people come into the job and leave after a few years because the pay is so low compared to their responsibilities. If anything goes wrong it's the EMT who gets blamed, regardless of the reason.

(BTW, EMTs are the grunts of first response. They haul patients and tend to basic trauma but can't administer drugs. Paramedics have lots more responsibility.)

Yo.. . Rightwingnut69 Thanks for asking.

Maybe we have to become like them .. .? Use Team Players and 30 Pieces of Silver.

Let's all compete on a level playing ground and recieve our fair share. Instead of fighting over the spare change that the 1% throw us.

@rightwingnut69

Yes, the labor supply DOES control the price of labor. But, you forget that the labor supply CAN be controlled.

For two generations, collective bargaining allowed most workers to negotiate a fair share of the profits that come from improving productivity. This showed up in many forms: increased pay, better health benefits, retirement benefits, more vacation time, fewer work hours per week, better job stability, improved on-the-job safety rules.

This is, of course, against the interests of the employer. But, on the other hand, the employer also gains when people who work for him can afford what they produce. And, the incentive for improving productivity is not only the job of the employer but also of the employee when he/she gains from such improvements too. In today's economy, most people are so sick and tired of the nonsense that they would rather drop out of the work force, retire early or work less (if they have that luxury) because there is no gain or reward from it.

If the name of the game is to squeeze 1% through the funnel and the other 99% are left with nothing, what's the incentive to try harder? The game is rigged and you are stupid enough to continue playing.

Just in case you think I am some loser complaining online: professional, top 5%, private sector, decades of corporate experience. It is time to call this 30-yr free-market, free trade experiment a failure. Time to move on to something better so that the country can collectively look forward/upward again instead of looking backwards to better times and worrying about constant chaos and turmoil.

@Ron-1861300

How do you define success? The number of hours worked in the U.S. has been rising for two decades while out-of-pocket costs have been rising as coverage is reduced. All in a time when after inflation pay has been flat for a decade. This is even true for college graduates. And not just for the ones who majored in art history. Recent college grads carry such high debts from their education (a situation I did not have to face decades ago).

Simply being employed is not the goal. It is being employed in something that provides stability and a better future. This is the thing that Americans once had and are missing now. The comparison today to what things were like even 20 years ago is light-years apart.

And, BTW, the unemployment rate before the crisis for college graduates was less than 2%. And, before you ask, I AM employed (and have been nonstop for many years).

Blessed is the bachelor degreed who understand that and avoid grad school in the first place. You cannot claim to be smart, and volunteer for that and then complain you are on the short end. You have to stop complaining or quit your claim that you are smart.

You're making $38K?? What university??

Everyone has the right to complain. No one would do this work if they didn't believe in what they were doing. It's just the conditions have deteriorated rapidly since many of us began our training. To say we can't complain for choosing this path would be like telling a undergrad it's their fault there are no jobs when they graduate. Some of us also bristle at the notion that scientists are overpaid, which seems to be a political myth.

Good question. I've also been salaried the last 20 years, and my work hours have usually been what you listed. I never got overtime pay, but I have gotten a few adhoc bonuses and my salary has always been fair for my market - so no complaints about the lack of overtime pay.

My son frequently had 60+ hour weeks, until the economy went dead. His employer made large investments in process based equipment of one major customer, as well as continuing to provide other services to other customers. My son worked both sides of the company as required to maintain production. But out-sourcing and off-shoring, combined with the flat economy have reduced the company's production and his hours to 20-30 per week. Even with overtime he has scarcely made $30k per year.

The salaried survivors at my former employer now find themselves doing the work of two or three people for lower pay and reduced or limited benefits.

Finally, my wife is a prison chaplain in two facilities with 700 inmates. She has a Master of Divinity and is ordained by a traditional church. The state limits her hours to 37.5 per week by edict, but due to the nature of her work often actually spends 40-45 per week on site, traveling to state meetings, or in preparation. Not to mention the calls during her off-hours to counsel grieving inmates (She has had to tell a a woman/adoloescent girl that her child had died, her parent had died or her husband had died), counsel suicidal inmates, counsel inmates feeling illicit pressures from other inmates or gaurds, and work with volunteer groups to make sure that they conform to prison rules. For all this, she receives $29400 dollars per year. Oh, this year they also presented her and the other 10 DOC chaplains a nice proclamation of appreciation and a nice embroidered, lined jacket.

canoworms,

Yes, farmers, and more critically, the stoop laborers and hired hands (exempt from Federal minimum wage laws) probably have some of today's worst work schedules. 10+ hours per day, in the sun or the rain or even in the frost, whenever there is a crop to plant, tend, or harvest.

Likewise, many small business employees. Even the best small businessman cannot always regulate their business flow to avoid high overtime/no demand periods. Think Christmas for stores or seasonal changes in the heating/cooling installer business.

canoworms,

If you look at compensation per household, the average household in the US is the upper 1% for the world. So, if someone says we expect high pay and a grandiose standard of living - based on households in the rest of the world, that appears to be true.

This doesn't mean I don't think changes are needed in the US (there are lots of things I'd like to change), but it does mean that relative to most of the rest of the world, we're doing very well here.

While it's true that $12,000 is a lot compared to wages in China or Indonesia we don't live in either of those places. If you live in the US you have to pay US prices for bread, gas, rent, etc.

Are we rich compared to the rest of the world? Definitely. But $24,000 a year is still poor in America.

hmm...I thought I read the average household income in the US is close to $50,000 - and that doesn't include government assistance for those that make less (that effectively increase their income).

Where are you getting the $12,000 number from?

Please stop insulting people by telling us we are better off than the people of East Jebib. We all know that. But living standards for the past 10 years or so in this country have been sliding downhill, and there is NO end in sight. Stop trying to convince people we are living large. I personally was better off 12 years ago than I am today, and I have a lot of company.

Ron,

A quick reminder about what 'average' means. One person earning $1million and 999 earning $10k will create an average $20k income. Average means the sum of the whole divided by the population of the group. Median, also often quoted, is the figure which has half the figures above that number and half below. So 1 at $1million, 999 at $10k and 1000 at $35k will have a median income of $35k.

The consequence of this is that a highly-paid 10-15% of the populace can create the feeling that the 'average' (perceived as majority) American earnings $50k, when the fact is that the majority are actually earning significantly less ($12k-35k).

I certainly would disagree with that.

Although there are exceptions to the rule CEO's are held legally (sometimes personally) responsible for the health of a particular corporation. I'm not sure if you have ever been responsible for something that is valued more than $1000, but when you have close to $100 million hanging over your head (24/7 there is no going 'home' from work), your measly 6 figures doesn't seem like much.

And in all honesty banking chiefs operate in the same manner; being held legally responsible for someone else's money.

For every regulation and regulation enforcement agency that gets instated, laws become the justification of cost. Sue your doctor, expect to pay him more next time. The US government, being so prodigious, is the justification of the .005%, to do what they do and to get payed what they get payed.

That being said. This is what happens with Capitalism; when citizens are considered capital.

epi13

You have got to be kidding! How many of these bank/financial institution CEO's have gone down for corrupt practices at their companies? Even after that, they still receive MASSIVE bonuses, and salaries, like nothing happened.

How many of these guys have gone down for some ponzai scheme, or out right fraud, went to prison, did their time, came out and still had hundreds of millions of dollars in the bank, waiting for them. Bankers are some of the worst out there.

Let us assume that 99% of bankers and CEO's fall into your category and only 1% fall into mine.

I will not forsake the good for the evils that prevail.

Worked for a guy hundreds of millions of dollars. Total douche-bag, one of the worst people I've met. Because of the work I did I also got to meet lots of others with an equivalent amount of money. The ex-vice CEO of Motorola North American Division -nicest guy you will ever meet. When I think about things of this nature (money). No matter how much evil I see, I always remember that guy; I cannot forget there is still good in this world.

Right on Moshuluu ! The big myth nowdays is that CEO's are held responsible. Truth is totally opposite. Huge singing bonuses before employment, huge salaries, sweetheart deals with members of the BOD who approve lucrative contracts and golden parachutes, then the first day of work comes. Later as CEO on top of the heep guess who has the best view of what is coming ? And if the view shows bad news is coming, guess who can bail of the peak and pull the rip cord on that golden parachute ? I know many bank officers at many banks. The only one I know that did not collect a great paycheck and retirement got caught with his hand in the till. As long as they stick to BOD approved compensation they do very, very well thank you. Low risk, high compensation. You can't beat it.

It seems a collective myth of those who do not deal with wealthy people on a regular basis ( though I am not wealthy), that CEO's are not held responsible for what happens in a corporation. Just because there has been a small number of corruption schemes that have been publicized (and corrupt) doesn't mean that's how the whole world works.

Unless you are one of these people or work besides these people you have no clue about what happens in a Corporation. How many times a year do most Corporations get sued? If you can't answer that then you are displaying your naive perception of what goes on behind closed doors (yes I get to work behind those closed doors).

The 1% is not the problem, CEO's are not the problem, bankers are not the problem; the problem is people assuming that others are to blame for the way they feel. Because everyone knows CEO's are worse than Charles Manson -there are real problems in the world, and money is not really one of them. Grow-up.

The CEO's I've known generally bust their butts to succeed. Those that don't, usually get fired fairly quickly.

From what I've seen, people that succeed financially in life do so because they work harder and smarter than the rest of us. There were 3 founders at a company I used to work for, and they all hit it reasonably big during the dot.com bubble ($10 to 30 million each). However, to get themselves in that position, they worked 60 to 100 hour weeks for nearly 20 years. When times got tight, they took pay cuts and multiple mortgages on their personal homes to make payroll for people like me. They missed a lot of birthday parties and soccer games with their kids because they were almost always working. I'm happy for their success, but I don't envy them at all. I'll keep my sub-6 figure job that also allows me to have a personal life.

Unfortunately, Corporate American profiteers base employee wages on what the employee needs to survive, instead of the employees contribution to the company.

@txmom You're absolutely right. I have been in the EMS business over 8 years now and think there are a lot more variables to the pay scales. First - 10 years ago this was, for the most part, a volunteer business. This was a profession that grew out of the increasing demands for quality of providers which those volunteering couldn't keep up with while having a full time separate profession. Furthermore in areas such as mine (suburban Philadelphia) ambulances fund the operations of a volunteer fire company, run by a Chief who is the town electrician and a President who is a clerk at the 7-11. Neither of whom have skills in running a business and their opinion is that, as an EMT or Medic, you should be happy you're getting paid at all - "We didn't get paid back in the day, why should you?".

It's not just governments that employ EMTs. At least they are accountable for the wages they pay and generally have standards.

EMTs also work volunteer (good for them) and for private firms. It's the private firms where you really get screwed. You wouldn't believe the turnover.

It's a global economy now; if you forgot.

So when you fill up your Ford (built in Canada, with European engineering) with Shell gas that is purchased from Saudi Arabia, refined using rare-earth elements from China.

You'd have to be really naive to think that purchasing products made in the US somehow only builds the local economy. Everything you've bought supports foreign nations in someway or another (GDP, etc).

Epi, that is crap. "Everything is global so why should I try to keep the money in America".....absolute crap and a misconception that has been furthered by a bunch of multinational corps trying to keep all of us from taking a patriotic stance towards the most important vote we make every day....our purchases. Buying from local stores that have higher paying jobs than Walmart or Target, and an owner in you community, helps your local economy. Buying a Toyota, where profits (which is about 15-20% of the cost) land oversees, doesn't help the American tax payer.

We need to realize that we all need to do what we can to help THIS country, and doing it with our wallets, if that is an option we have. If you are faced with a piece of plastic junk made in China, and a piece of plastic junk costing 15% more made in America, then buy the American made one. If it's something you don't need and you don't have an American made counterpart, then don't buy it at all. If we as consumers start hurting the profit margins of American based companies (i.e. Mattel) for building their product oversees, they will stop building them there. No matter what any government does this outsourcing of our country won't change unless we as people change....and if we don't we should stop blaming anyone but ourselves.....you know, the ones responsible for all the crap that is happening right now. We elected the clowns in Washington, we bought the products that made these companies so incredibly powerful, we've polluted this planet, we've not demanded better education, we've allowed our deficit to get out of control, and we bought those stupid, idiotic, interest only ARM's that started this whole crap off. So WE the citizens need to dig ourselves out and improve our lot in life, and patriotic buying habits are just one small way we can start improve things.

Your 'work for it' statement implies a belief in utter 'Free-will'; that you get to completely control your destiny.

Most of us live in a reality that we realize that the external is determined, but that you have the free-will to perceive how you want. Meaning no matter how hard you work, or how smart you may be, you are never guaranteed anything in life.

Now Capital is a game, and some people get really good at playing that game, some don't want to play at all. Working hard and being intelligent will get you nowhere with Capitalism (the gain of capital is a manipulation technique -I want your money, now how can I get it).

ralph396-2103787
You don't like what a truck driver makes, don't become one. You don't like what an EMT makes, don't become one.

What an ignorant statement!! SOME men, (women too) prefer outside work as opposed to sitting behind a desk in a shirt and tie, SCARED of the outside elements.

Take me for example, Army Infantry, and firefighting was the way to go. I enjoy the GREAT outdoors, not some stuffy office with a bunch of "so-called" men, sitting behind a desk, and running around in shirt and tie. Before your ignorance runs amok, rest assured, my two chosen professions has given me the opportunity to live extremely well, and be well off financially. At 60 y/o, I'm retired with acres, and home paid off, no bills, and a very good pension.

So, there you go, attack my pension now!

Hey moshuluu,

My point exactly. You liked what an infantry man does and made for a salary. You liked what a firefighter does and made for a salary. You did that work and aren't complaining about it.

My comments are directed against those that are complaining about it.

p.s. - I followed my path starting as a lineman and finishing as a manager retiring from the telephone company when I was 50.

The sad part is that you actually believe that crap. What world do you live in because it is not REAL.

I don't agree with a ton of what the OWS crowd is espousing, but one part of it that is viable is the fact that most aren't asking to be given anything but a chance to work for it. They don't wan the $50k job, they want a job that could bblossom, which means they don't want their degree going to JC Penneys or Walmart, can't work up too far there. Myself and most of us were not out of college right now. When I got out I was terribly fortunate, jobs wer a plenty and my debt was completely manageable....no help from ma and dad and only $10k down. I do that today I'm left without a job, or my pizza delivery job I had in school, and $25k+ in debt (20% a year increase in tuition will double up the costs pretty quick).

These kids were promised, just like myself, a job, and a future career by every politician, school leader and parent that has ever spoken of college...I understand why their ticked off. This is the first time I can remember when people have been saying that going to college may not be the best choice for most leaving high school.

Agree: Limpet. Was putting in a new security system and the Elec Engineer and an Install Tech were together while the tech was dismounting an audio call box to adjust the volume switch. the Engineer stood there with a schematic in his hand and said " I see they have two switches there, one Speaker, one Mic. Why did they need two ? " I thought he was teasing and didn't take the bait. The low paid install techie said, "you don't really want me to tell you do you". Reading his face, I'd say he realised he asked a dumb question, but I don't think he figured out the answer by the time we left. I thought, so the stories the technicians tell about engineers is true ? They are good at theoreticals and math perhaps, but hand em a tool and say help me out here and it's a mistake.

Jose As a 20 year veteran of EMS.....and based upon your comments.....it is quite OBVIOUS to me....that you have NEVER worked in EMS!

While it is true that we may OCCASIONALLY have a shift....where we ACTUALLY get to sit down and eat a meal....or actually get to sleep for a few hours during our shift....

.....the cold hard truth of the matter is...Shifts like that are VERY RARE! Comparing EMS to "Truckers" is a VERY unfair comparison. While Federal law ( DOT) REQUIRES a truck driver to stop driving and rest....after so many hours on the road. Those Laws do NOT apply to EMS! On an AVERAGE shift....our service puts over 1200 miles per day on a rig....which would be like driving from Kansas City Missouri to Houston Texas non-Stop!! 99% of our meals....consist of Hospital cafeteria food, or grabbing a gas station hot dog while we refuel. ( Assuming that we don't get paged out for an emergency call in the process! )

What do you expect .. .? We get 37th rated health care at the highest price in the world.

My own observation has been that where there is money no one tells the truth. This is especially obvious in the health care business. A business where people are harvested for the highest return on corporate investment.

Your offended because you have gone without sleep for too long and lost touch with reality. All that being said, how great thou art. I feel real sorry for you and.. . all those you bankrupt.