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Subscribe to RSSWhile the nation's largest banks were publicly reassuring nervous investors of their stability during the height of the financial crisis, they were also quietly approaching the Federal Reserve, hat in hand. The total price tag: $7.77 trillion, many times the amount of the better-known TARP bailout.
The magnitude of the government's assistance to struggling banks allowed them to grow even bigger and continue paying executives billions in compensation, a report in Bloomberg Markets January issue said Monday.
A win in court against a group representing the banks and a FOIA request filed by Bloomberg LP revealed the extent of the central bank's largesse — as well as the $13 billion in profits banks earned from those bailouts. The so called "big six" — JPMorgan, Bank of America, Citigroup, Wells Fargo, Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley — accounted for $4.8 billion of that total — nearly a quarter of their net income during that time.
Those borrowed trillions were a deeply-buried secret. It appears that even high-ranking Fed officials didn't know about the scale of the handouts. According to Bloomberg, then-president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis Gary H. Stern “wasn’t aware of the magnitude,” and unnamed sources say that even top aides to Treasury Department head Henry Paulson were kept in the dark.
The six biggest banks in the country received a total $160 billion in TARP funds, but as much as $460 billion from the Fed, raising the question as to how and why this nearly $8 trillion in loans, guarantees and limits remained under wraps for so long. According to the Fed, the massive scale of banks' borrowing — and the red ink that prompted it — had to be kept secret to avoid spooking investors and prompting a panic or bank runs that would have had even more devastating consequences on the shaken economy.
The Fed defended its actions back then by contending that the biggest financial institutions in the country were too big to fail — a phrase that has become a bone of contention among lawmakers, some of whom argue that a "too big to fail" bank is one that's too big to exist.
Ohio Senator Sherrod Brown sponsored a bill last year that would cap a bank's non-deposit liabilities at 2 percent of gross domestic product, and crack down on workarounds banks currently use to bypass a 1994 law that prohibits any one bank from holding more than 10 percent of all deposits in the country.
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If this story of $7.7 trillion is true. Then could one surmise that the American Financial-Banking Cartels are complete failures and unable to maintain any semblance of business order?
Perhaps it is time to take another look at this. Obviously, these folk deserve NOT their wages of millions a year. Maybe $30 to $40 K is more in line.
Besides, ignoring everything I posted above, The FED, The Banks. Something tells me that an agenda is being carried out here. Is the American People's wealth being brokered to the highest bidding thieves?
So, Where's our money.
Our money was spent on trips to Singapore, Paris, and Scores.
So are we 21.7 trillian in debt since this was "under the table". And they won't do anything for families about to lose everything.
Happy Holidays
Ron Paul has been all over this for YEARS and predicted the fed was lending the banks trillions in secret during this time.
I guess Ron Paul was right.... AGAIN.
Ron Paul 2012
It's been time for a long while now bbl, that being said, welcome.
The government didn’t have but the smallest fraction of that kind of money. This so-called lending was all accomplished (if actually accomplished at all) through the usual sham financial manipulations and the printing up of a whole lot of money. Anyone that thinks the government actually had this kind of money to lend isn’t thinking.
This article itself is suspect.
The scary thing is that Ron Paul is likely correct about what is coming as well.
Nothing has been fixed, just hidden for a time.
You don't understand. The FEDERAL Reserve is NOT the government. IT is a PRIVATE BANKING organization. They create money out of thin air through adding zeros to an accounting ledger.
They are supposed to sell bonds for every dollar they create but of course this has not been happening for over a decade now as the US debt has gotten out of control.
Not surprised by the amount, but surprised that it wasn't more. The Credit Default Swap liability had ever increasing amounts, 60 trillion being mentioned somewhere at one time, the major reason AIG (Arrogance, Ignorance & Greed) WAS DEEMED TOO BIG TO FAIL as they were one of the major insurers. The Fed, et. al. figured there'd be a Chicxulub sized crater if nothing was done and modern society would have gone the way of the dinosaurs. Not to say that the second/third recession we're facing won't do it anyway.
Why isn't this front and center on MSNBC's website?
It looks like OWS really is on to something.
Yet, no one from the banks is going to jail over the derivatives trading. Figures.
The article is NOT referring to "the government lending ANY money to anyone".
The article is NOT even implying that "the government has any ability or intention of lending" let alone even had 7.7 Trillion dollars.
The article is referring to "the Federal Reserve Bank" lending 7.7 Trillion to other major banks.
The Federal Reserve Bank is NOT the government... duh.
When or when will some people learn to read?
Even though so many cannot read or understand how government works, our F-D up system insists that "everyone be allowed to vote" and now look at the mess we have in DC.
No wonder at all.
As I've said all along, the top 1% or 10% or25% of american businesses could not compete in a fair and open market place. Simply because they're not smart enough or tough enough to sustain a competative business model, why?. Because the same reason we must import intelligence and mental maturity...the national mentality of the american people is that of a 5 year old to put it frankly. The way you do things is telling, the way you respond to emotional or stressful stimulae is a black or white viewpoint. A child from america cannot compete educationally or emotionally on the world stage, we have watched from the sidelines while our country and culture were taken over by europeans after World War II, WHILE YOU ALL CELEBRATED YOUR EUROPEAN BACKGROUNDS the europeans speed by you. They took over your whole country and culture without any blood spilled, don't cry NOW!
One of the main reason people are ignorant is the sham media that is bought and paid for by these very same people.
On the left you have MSNBC and their liberal entertainment drones and on the right you have the opposite, the Republican teleprompter reading drones at FOX.
But... people are starting to figure it out more and more each day.
Bank welfare....much worse than poor people on welfare, although all we hear the idiot masses get angry about is that a poor neighbor might get a table scrap from the government. The People deserve what they are getting...they've been incredibly stupid voting in all the so-called conservative trash. There's nothing "conservative" about them, they are spendthrifts the same as the rest, but instead of spending on something that might potentially benefit the people...they just give it away to filthy rich people who will just save it and add to their wealth.
I am not the slightest Ron Paul supporter, but, it does appear that the FED, which is a Government-endorsed, private banking cartel, has extra-Constitutional powers that work only for Wall Street and not American Citizens.
OWS is right after all.
Mr. Rogers 1.8
Come on now with this splitting of hairs. Sure, the Federal Reserve is set up like a private banking organization, but upon closer examination one will discover that the Federal Reserves governing board is made up of presidential appointees that must be confirmed by the senate. Split hairs if you must but the Fed is government controlled. They do what the government tells them to do.
Obama & his cronies have our money. Who do you think funds his campaign. He gets to keep whatever money he doesn't use on his campaign.
$8 trillion could have paid off the national debt.
Coyote....this all came from Bushy Bush Bush....has the smell of Texas all over it...and that smell is...cow manure!
Do more research. The US Government has very little power over the FED. In fact, only part of what the FED does can be audited by the government without new legislation. It was thanks to Ron Paul that we got a partial audit a couple of years back... but this was a one time deal and it only covered a specific period.
The Federal Reserve was created to be independent of the government so that politics did not influence policy.... at least that is how it was supposed to work.
That being said, the idea of Central banking is a HORRIBLE idea for many reasons which is why the founders were against it in the first place.
Oh...on the governing board members, the president can only pick from a limited selection of people ALREADY within the FED. It is not as if the president can pick someone outside the FED and put them on the board... it doesn't work that way. Again, the FED rules LIMIT the government.
OWS is partially right. They are right about the corruption, but they are wrong on the source of the corruption and how to fix it. Instead of protesting wall street they should be protesting DC and working to unseat every congressman and senator who voted to BLOCK Ron Paul's permanent and deeper audit.
It is VERY easy to identify those in Congress who protect the banks, and yet it is members of both parties, mainly in the Senate.
Where OWS loses credibility is when they attack free markets and capitalism at its base. These are are the best things for America and the BEST way to bring more Americans out of poverty and into the middle class, but the CORPORATISM that corrupts the free markets into controlled rigged markets using the power of politics and regulation to benefit those in power is what we should be attacking.
Thus OWS is partially right... and Ron Paul is just plain right.
We should dig up Alexander Hamilton and hang him!
Speedy,
"When or when" (take your pick) we all learn to write. Banking is complex. Very few understand the total system and it's interconnections. Very few understand what part of the "fed" is government and what part is private... do you? So it doesn't help the cause to be an a$$ about it. If you know so much, help us out... but don't rub it in our faces with typos... it's not good form.
Ron Paul 2012
From this article: "Those borrowed trillions were a deeply-buried secret. It appears that even high-ranking Fed officials didn't know about the scale of the handouts. According to Bloomberg, then-president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis Gary H. Stern “wasn’t aware of the magnitude,” and unnamed sources say that even top aides to Treasury Department head Henry Paulson were kept in the dark. "
So the REAL question is... WHO actually runs that place, making decisions of such magnitude? Lizards... friggin lizards control this kind of cash...
My thoughts are that every member of the fed is a sitting member of the Free Masons check and see
Proamerica...I agree. Hamilton was the origin of much of the chicanery that is the American financial system. Funny that he is still so lauded today....people should read his stuff...he created this debt slave system.
So the real issue here is: What else is being hidden from us "for our own good"?
If this doesn't create more doubt about "big money", I'm not sure what will. How many of us can go to our local fed-store and get a low interest loan to bail out our failed gambling habits?... then use those same funds to make more money and to pay our own salaries?
This stinks more than any reasonable person should be able to stand... this should generate some bipartisan cooperation, don't you think? No?
Geithner said a few weeks ago to stay tuned for the indictments.
Where/when are they? I'm losing patience.
Really, I want to get to the bottom of this, but this article makes no sense. 7 trillion? To whom ? So gives us the details so that the math adds up.
We have been told over the over again that the big regionals are now bigger than ever before. Again, more details? How much of the 7 trillion is still borrowed? How much was paid back?
Look at the numbers again. One minute we are reading about low billions and the next trillions. So let's see a full report before going nuts. We need to know who knew and who didn't. This article is just way too vague.
http://tullyspage.blogspot.com/2011/11/federal-reserve-bank-secretly-lended-16.html
Not sure of any reliability in this site - don't know it, but there are more supposed details.
I'll keep it short and sweet.
END THE FED!!! Ron Paul 2012!
American Pauper - Hamilton advocated for the creation of a central bank of the United States, but wasn't it Congress that actually approved any legislation for it? How can you blame Hamilton for the "Chicanery" that is the American Financial System? Is he still alive in hiding somewhere? Granted, there are many things Hamilton did in his life of public service that I do not agree with, but its very obtuse and narrow minded to think one person is at fault.
PS. I have read about Hamilton extensively. He is a relative.
ItsAboutTime....Impressive! and I am related to the Queen of England (pronounced "Angland!")
Mr Radical A, not the europeans but the English. England won the war against the US. It took them two centuries but they ended up winning.
Welcome to the United States of Propaganda. Keep 'em fighting with each other while the crooks sneak out the back door with the valuables. Thank you "republicans" and "democrats", fox news and all of the other scam artists. Enjoy your ill gotten loot.
Not only is Ron Paul correct about the financial horseplay of the FED, but he is dead on right about every other issue, including foreign wars and intervention, government spending, and illegal immigration.
Ron Paul is soundly positioned for effective corrective of every single major issue, is consistent, and does not change his story to fit the interview or adjust to the latest polling.
WE CANNOT DO BETTER THAN RON PAUL IN 2012
Never Stop Asking Questions, why isn't this front center on Fox News?
@speedy
And? Given the network of blasting cap fuse cord tieing all the major financial centers of the financial world (global) together, yes we do realize that money was being lent to non-US banks.
As are the French and Germans having to deal with the Greco-Italian event horizon. Hell, the Federal Reserve probably is still piping money into that black hole.
Welcome to Financial Weapons of Mass Destruction 101.
The Big Six were the ones most involved (and therefore exposed) in derivatives trading. Not ALL banks, even those that received TARP funds under Federal mandate, had that exposure. We continue to group them all together, which is the same as saying all automotive companies are alike.
Now for the bigger issue.
I can't fathom how TRILLIONS are not visible. Trillions. Not even Henry Paulsen knew? Dude, that is your job. Unreal.
Occupy DC.
Sen. Bernie Sanders (VT) has been telling everybody for years we need to audit the fed. Nobody listens.
To all: Ron Paul may be correct, but he is done. Globalism has devoured honor, justice, and truth.
Comments on Alexander Hamilton are accurate. His ideals held sway in US Economics until the 1920s' through the mid 1970s'. In 1980, with Reagan's election and the implementation of Supply Side Economics, the philosophy of decentralized government and centralized Banking was reborn. SSE must be abolished immediately.
And again, assuming this story is accurate. Another possibility. Some US Financial Interests, through the FED, have leveraged their ability to Launder Capital into the troubled European Euro Markets. This will enable US Financial Interests to increase their control over these Markets, and, provide a buffer against emerging Asian Markets.
Just another thought to ponder. Yet another possibility. Everything about this article could be fraudulent, with a purpose to distract from another issue that has yet to be revealed.
It's time that everyone begin to understand the real toll of "Insurance" (from health insurance to derivatives, etc) on our economic system.
When you do .............. you'll begin to understand why its unraveling ..................
Total was $ 7,700,000,000,000.
So where is the REST OF THE $ 7,700,000,000,000 ? I highly suspect it went to foreign banks managed by no other than the World Bank.
Further, I highly suspect this is coming to light now is because the U.S. HAS TO PROVIDE the IMF funding to bailout the EUro PIIgs. And just where will the Treasury get the money for this one ?
Finally, the Federal Reserve has REFUSED to disclose the what, when, where, why, and to whom $ 2,000,000,000,000 was transferred.
Time to AUDIT the Federal Reserve and throw any crooks into jail with Murdoff NOW !!! Wait a minute, the Federal Reserve (a private corrupt entity) can't pass THEIR OWN STRESS TEST.
The Feds are printing money for our government and the 1% so they can all stay in control of the people. All this money is to make certain that the 1% and the government have full control over the people by keeping our country in debt while they are collecting and hoarding all the cash for themselves.
If they are going to hand out and print trillions for the top 1% and the government, then they should be printing more money for the rest of us, but that will never happen.
They need to keep the 1% class and government above all the rest of the American people so they can continue to bill us as they steal all this money for themselves. It's time to end all this unscrupulous FED/Gov/1% from raiding our country's piggy-bank, Us, the People.
If they borrow the money, then they should be the ones to pay it all back. Not the American people.
RON PAUL 2012
This story seems to be a white wash by MSNBC.
The CORRECT amount of secret loans by the "Fed" is not "nearly 8 trillion", it is actually $16 TRILLION according to a government audit.
The real question is; WHY HAS THIS NOT BEEN FRONT PAGE NEWS MSNBC?????
_________________________________________________________________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system,for if they did,I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.” -Henry Ford
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While the world waits with baited breath on the Contrived Drama of the Debt Ceiling, the real show has already been played out,secretly and behind the scenes.
The first audit of the privately owned and foreign owned Federal Reserve by the GAO,has turned up $16 Trillion dollars of loans all over the world to prop up the global fiat empire. This massive money creation is over and above Hank Paulson’s $700 billion dollar heist of the American public. It is also in addition to QE1 and QE2 that resulted in an illusionary recovery of the economy. All of this money printing has done nothing to create any economic growth and it never will.
The scary part is that this was done with no oversight or accountability .
Alexander Hamilton did not think that american people were smart enough to choose their own government. Was he wrong?
While the details of Fed lending to private banks were "a deeply buried secret", general information on the size of the Fed's balance sheet was released weekly during the 2008 crisis (Barron's published such information in its Market Laboratory section, for example, as it did for many years). The Fed's balance sheet rose by something like $1.3 trillion (from 0.9 to 2.2 trillion) from January 08 to January 09. It was widely known at the time that vast amounts of short-term credit had been issued to financial firms. It is possible that the $7.7 trillion figure above was obtained by adding up short-term loans that were never outstanding at the same time. The vast majority of these funds have been repaid without loss; the Fed after 2008 essentially replaced loans to private banks with purchases of government bonds and to some extent agency securities (Fannie Mae, for example).
I have never understood why most of our media spilled so much ink over the TARP, while ignoring the much larger 2008 bailouts including Fed loans; FDIC guarantees of $1 trillion in commercial paper (short term corporate debt, mostly issued by Wall Street and banks), and Federal guarantees of something like $4 trillion in money market funds, which collectively had invested in several hundred billion dollars of risky mortgage-related investments. In January 2009, the Federal government stood to lose something in the hundreds of billions of dollars on all these loans and guarantees, not to mention huge exposure to FDIC deposit guarantees as banks failed and Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp exposure as pension plans failed.
This is of course one of the reasons why the government decided on a roughly $800 billion stimulus bill (36% tax cuts, 64% spending over 2+ years), when previous discussions had been about a much smaller number--because the government would have been spending much of the money anyway. Whether the stimulus bill worked or not (I don't know the answer), one of its effects was to pump money into the people's pockets and out of the banks' pockets, as Fed loans were repaid along with most of the TARP funds, and the money market fund and commercial paper guarantees expired with essentially no losses. Why the media has done such a poor job of explaining all this is beyond me.
The article implies no such thing. First, that $7.7 trillion figure is a total of all lending during the period in question. Most lending to banks is very short-term, sometimes just overnight. So, if $5 billion is lent tonight, and $5 billion is lent tomorrow, this study would claim that $10 billion was lent. Which is true, but $10B wasn't outstanding at any one time.
Secondly, this was activity by the Fed, so it doesn't count against the federal deficit. This is especially true since the Fed itself didn't have to borrow the money to lend.
Finally, none of this was a handout. The banks that receive loans from the Fed pledge collateral.
Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were too big to fail. They had to be bailed out or the whole economy really would've tanked. Then it would've been worse than the Great Depression. It's good that the Fed did what they did. Thank God Bernanke and Co. had enough wisdom to know the difference.
End the Fed!! Veterans for Ron Paul 2012! Click on my name to learn about the plan to Restore America Now!
I can't believe everyone did not know about these conduit payments, if you want to know who got what ask Geithner while Spitzer puts a boot on his neck. We all should be questioning why Eliot was taken down, yeah he did a hooker but the real reason was that he was getting to close.
AmericanPauper
ItsAboutTime....Impressive! and I am related to the Queen of England (pronounced "Angland!")
Umm. I am related to Hamilton and have the documents to PROVE It. How funny, I noticed you attempted to 'use' really bad humoUr (Queen's English) on me, but completed ignored the entire comment. I suggest you learn to read with comprehension and do not post if you cannot back up your comment with actual fact. How funny
So, during the congressional investigations when Bernanke was asked where the money went and he said "I don't know" how many were paying attention? Now, after a partial disclosure, it seems much of the money went to prop up foreign banks. All the international banks like Deutschebank, CreditSuisse etc were given billions (now it seems, trillions) to prop them up. So, now we have the Euro crisis, which, regardless of how much borrowing and lending and conniving will not be enough to prevent a collapse, and all that money from the Fed will go....where, exactly?
A brief explanation of the inner workings of the Fed:
http://youtu.be/PhU3X1PiXP4
Ending the FED would simply result in a "New FED" with a different name.
There has to be someone at the helm of the ship, today it's the FED, that's why the FED and Captains of our Banks must be held to a higher morality, and much steeper criminal penalties.
Removing the Glass-Steagall act that separated Investment Banks from Commercial Banking, was like the removal of the penalties for murder as long as the killing would make you more profitable, if both were legal today, both would be immorally wrong but not against the law.
Since Glass-Steagall was gone after 1999 and along with it any criminal penalties when the "Killings" took place … this is why prosecuting these traitorous bankers is going to take a long time and will be most likely through the insiders trading misconduct laws.
For those who do not understand why the world economies monies are no longer based on gold, or silver, or even oil, the answerer can be found deep inside the Marshall Plan.
After WWII, Asia was still in the Stone Age for all tense and purpose, Japan was demolished, Europe with the exception of very few, most notable Switzerland and its neighbors was pock marked and leveled from bombing each other, broke, and starving.
It would take a thesis to cover why the writers of the Marshall Plan did what they did, suffice to say producing money to reignite the world economy from these countries assets was not there, so the writers of the Marshall Plan went another way, and it worked very well until the removal of Glass-Steagall.
The Marshall Plan required the Captains of the banks to have a moral compass, and today's bankers have sold their souls as well as their great grandfathers moral compasses.
The Marshall Plan was NOT a redistribution of wealth, no one including the United States had enough wealth to redistribute after WWII to fix the entire worlds problems.
The reason the internal workings of the FED, and several other banking agencies will never be released to the general public is because of "perception".
Many of the other posters here are ever so slightly opening Pandora's Box with their comments, and I suggest that those who I see here be very cautious, in that putting perception back in the box will be the same as trying to put the torments of Pandora back in the box.
The US government needs to temporarily set up a US government Bank where in the US public including small business can make safe deposits in the Government banks and go directly to the government bank for lending.
Set up US government offices and control the paper exclusively, from the very beginning paper the borrower fills out, through the entire process of the loan, and the payments be made directly to the government bank, cut out our current immoral traitorous bankers.
This will allow the too big to fail Banks currently on the immoral gravy train to either wither on the vine, or become solvent on the virtues of their investing, and trading skills, either way they would not receive another single dime from the FED, or the US Government to either bail them out again, or make another loan, then if they want to sell each other worthless securities so be it.
Kinda puts all the silly hysterics about our national debt and budget deficit in a new perspective doesn't it? Politicians, especially republicans, scream about these debits, much like a braying mule, standing in grass, eating saw briars while afflicted with a toothache. The people have been screwed in so many ways the politicians can't undo anything, since they can't remember how many ways they employed to do the job in the beginning. Write the goddamn debt off, or down, and right the country! If we are drowning, it's in bulls#^t.
The Big Banks ripped off every dime in IRA's and 401ks, so the Fed covers their asses with butt-wipe known as the Constitution of the United States, and we let them screw us over and over, again. Banks should be paying us, about 1000% on individual deposits, just to be fair, you know.
Oh you got to be s***in' me. Ughhhh. Okay, look. I'm a fan of the Fed, not because I'm a wealthy banker, but because every other nation has a central bank, and so should the Fed. HOWEVER, the Fed needs to stop making secret transfers of money to banks, especially when it is over the trillion-dollar mark. I say we make the Fed more tightly knit to the Treasury, publicize every financial transaction they make over a set amount, and start researching ways to avoid having to do this again, like reinstating Glass-Steagall. BUT, the Fed does have a point. Giving $7.7 trillion to banks would scare the hell out of investors, leading to a bigger crash. But we must find a balance that ensures that the Fed can help the economy WHILE maintaining an aura of transparency and association with the Treasury. And for all you commentators out there, the Fed is a part of the government, but is independent of the three branches of federal government. Is it unconstitutional, no. But we must make it more transparent to remove all of the conspiracy theories about it. Ron Paul may have a point about making it transparent, but we NEED IT in the modern economic world. So don't just take Ron Paul's libertarian ultra-conservative crap just because he seems to be the only responsible person out there in Washington.
The fundemntal problem may not simply reside with transparency nor with the Fed. There are simply too little compitition within the financial and banking institutions. No corporation should be too big to fail. Our government should try to break them up now rather than later.
I think we will find that the "trillions" in loans is arrived at by adding every loan given to all institutions during the multi-year period mentioned and not netting out from that total the repayments.
For example, a common place loan is a one day fed funds loan of say $100 million, which is repaid with interest the following day. However if you simply add up all those loans ($100 million times 365 days) you could say $36,500,000,000 was loaned to that institution during that year! That would be accurate but of course very mis-leading!
When reading about these things remember the old adage, "Figures lie and liars figure"!
Let’s ask Bloomberg, the source of this story, the following question, “What was the average loan amount and duration”…they’re smart people they can figure that out…if they want to!
"Those borrowed trillions were a deeply-buried secret. It appears that even high-ranking Fed officials didn't know about the scale of the handouts. According to Bloomberg, then-president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis Gary H. Stern “wasn’t aware of the magnitude,” and unnamed sources say that even top aides to Treasury Department head Henry Paulson were kept in the dark. "
America is in serious need of another Ferdinand Pecora
What is this world coming too!....This is way out of control!I rather give my tax-payer money to every day working Americans who are out making an honest buck,but when they get laid-off they need a helping hand.....BUT NOOOOOOO!.........ONLY THE 1% & THEIR BRAIN-WASH GROUPIES...i.e.(gop-teabaggers-conserv-ah-nothins)...get theirs......We get lies,lies, and more lies.....I WONDER WHAT THE GOV. AND THEIR ENTITIES ARE STILL HIDING.....WITH THEIR MANCHURIAN WACKO gop CANDIDATES.......
This is not my forte and I hope someone will be kind enough to give me a synopsis of how all of this works.
I understand that banks make their money off of interest only. I understand that if people lose their jobs they can't pay principal let alone interest. I understand this from a layman's point. What I don't understand is how all of this ran into trillions. Has every 99%er in America lost their job or has this money been lent to the 1%ers who have manipulated the stock market and lost? And how does this all tie into the euro and the stock market.
And if the market crashed who loses the most? The 1%ers or the average American?
AND I understand that the Fed is and isn't tied into the government. I mean Obama appointed William C. Dudley to head the NY Fed so if it isn't a government entity why is the President appointing anyone? By the way try to find ANY history on Dudley....it just isn't there.
I have heard rumors that all of this is a planned event. That eventually we will have a world currency and it looks to me like it will be the Euro. How well has THAT been working out?
If someone who really knows what they are talking about would explain all of this to me in simple terms I would appreciate it.
One of the major points that many people are missing is that it is our current Congressional deficiencies, such as lifelong membership and the massive problems with campaign financing, as well as our leadership's complete inability to balance our national budget EVER, that is at the heart of these types of problems. These are the types of major issues that need to be corrected before these other, more specific problems can be fixed. The American Overhaul Act proposes a set of Constitutional amendments that would correct these systemic deficiencies. Check it out at www.americanoverhaulact.org. And, if you like it, support it: leave a comment showing your support and tell your friends, family, and representatives about it!
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The total price tag wasn't $7.77 trillion. What about the word LOAN do you not get? The Fed PROFITED when the money that was lent was paid back! The total price tag was something like a $150 billion PROFIT!
And this is not some kind of secret under the table dealing. It's what the Fed does. It is the lender of last resort and when credit freezes between banks, one would expect the banks to go to the Fed. If one did not expect that, then they certainly don't know anything about how our banking system works and probably shouldn't be writing articles about it.
Mike in SA ; the money has not been paid back, the fed took as collateral all the toxic debt and bundled mortgages hedge funds on a buy back agreement; they booked the collateral at face value (mark to market accounting); they are still out over 8 trillion dollars in real market value, they covered their loses with a pledge of Old age and disability fund trust future receipts (aka social security), if any more European country's fail, the fed Can not cover the loses; so print more money and cause a huge inflation to pay the debt's back with cheaper money, or just close the doors to the discount window at the fed, which will cause a world wide depression; we are in a hell of a mess !v
Rico-3714896: The US Federal Reserve is the currency arm of the US. It is backed by the power, production, and physicality of the US and its possessions. The primary job of the fed is balancing the value, or exchange rates, of various currencies to the value of the dollar, along with its determination of proper circulation of the dollar and other currencies. The US Federal Reserve is not a poor institution. In fact, this entity probably holds more wealth than all other countries combined. Example is; this entity holds about as much gold as all other countries combined. Banks disburse currency for profit, and sometimes do so in such a poor managed way balance and/or value of that currency becomes askew. When this happens, the fed generally acts by manipulation of values of the dollar or other currencies, sometimes with a short view, and at others a long view. Debt is the lifeblood of such a system. Fact is, all the world generally lives in some degree of debt, which if properly managed is good. If the stock market crashed tomorrow, of course investors, or 1%er's would be hurt much, but the 99%er's would suffer the most since their ability to produce and consume would be severely constrained. I don't know if this helps much. It is a short overview of some of the Fed function. If one can study the Federal Reserve objectively one can come to understand its power and potential wizardry. Regards
Did you read the Bloomberg article? Did you notice the dates that these transactions took place?
This took place from 2007-2009. Who was president until 1/20/09, Coyote?
Here's a link to the article.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-28/secret-fed-loans-undisclosed-to-congress-gave-banks-13-billion-in-income.html
Idiots like Coyote are part of the problem.
We were warned by the AFL-CIO in 2001 that the GOP oligarchy would steal every penny we invested, including our pensions....Thanks George!
Thanks Mac! So is it or is it not a Federal Government Agency? My understanding is that the Fed does not loan to everyday borrowers. Just the banks. So the bank gets money for no or very little interest and then loans it to us at a higher interest and makes it's money that way?
Does the Fed lend to other countries or is that some other government entity?
I don't understand how we are so bound to the Euro and other countries stock markets.
I have order the book Confidence Men and hopefully it will spell it out for me in a concise way.
I swear I'm going to quit MSNBC.....I had 10 other questions for you Mac and it just cut them all off. Grrrrr
and it moves too friggin slow!
rico-3714896: Rico, the Fed can't loan to anyone or anything unless it is within the laws and policy of the Federal government. Specifically the US congress. Through congressional agreements (trade agreements) the Fed does loan money, generally through the US treasury Dept to foreign central banks. It also sells US bonds etc to foreign governments. In all actuality the EU is a concoction of the US government at the behest of wealthy US and European money mongers. Generally the propping up of any foreign central bank with capital infusion is done by the US Federal Reserve. Please remember, the Federal Reserve is blamed with much that is undeserved. Often the Fed chairman knows that the Fed's actions, or lack of actions are incorrect but will do as the government dictates especially when the congress refuses to remedy a poor policy or law.
rico-Addendum: The Federal Reserve bank is not a part of the US government. Many argue the Federal Reserve system isn't either, but that is untrue. The Federal Reserve Act by the US Congress in 1913 which created the US Federal Reserve proves, that part of it, is in fact, a Federal affair. It is though, an autonomous entity, independent of any political pressure, and serves as the sole US Central Banking Authority. A little aside here. Wilson is credited with having great remorse over the creation of this entity. This is untrue. A part of one of his speeches or writings was found, and a part of it was taken out of context to make it appear he was being critical of this creation, when he was really repeating what one of his critics had said about it. By the way, I am not part of any banking concern or government agency.
OMG...this is so confusing! Is that done on purpose? So the Federal Reserve while not being a part of our government is run by Congress? The Federal Reserve is like a holding company for the U. S. Treasury? WHY? I mean doesn't that duplicate services?
And then you mention the EU which is kinda like NATO isn't it?
And by "pooling the national industries" is that what's happening here with our corporations moving to other countries? And why are some countries in the EU and using the Euro doing well and others we are told, are crumbling?
So Mac...what's the plan here? Are they telling us this now so we the public will insist on getting rid of the Federal Reserve and then they set up a World Bank/Federal Reserve that we will be a part of?
And the responsibility of all this chaos comes back to sit in the lap of our treasonous Congress?
Mac thanks for being patient with me...I'm really just trying to understand it.
When and under who's administration did this happen? TARP was started under Bush, and his version had little oversight with the public money lent, so all the assumptions about this being totally under the current administration are jumping to conclusions before the rest of the facts are released.
People are too quick to point fingers.
Gee, wondering how you made that conclusion considering the article itself says:
Now I -- like most conservatives -- wasn't a big fan of the bank bailout, but I'll take paid back loans any day over the distortion of bankruptcy law that occurred with the auto bailouts and which screwed over several pension/retirement funds.
So go get a unicorn and find a rainbow to ride it over...and stop making up "facts". Typical liberal.
I’m getting confused!!!
Is this $7.7 Trillion part of the $16 Trillion in Fed loans below:
http://rt.com/usa/news/fed-loaned-trillion-us/
Or is the $7.7 Trillion part of this $13 Trillion in Fed loans:
http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2011/03/31/banks-companies-tapped-fed-reserve-rescue-programs/
Or does the $7.7 Trillion include this previously-reported $1.2 Trillion in Fed crisis loans (or not)???
http://money.msn.com/market-news/post.aspx?post=22fdf745-e0ed-4afe-8c81-0daaae79a0a2
Or does this $7.7 Trillion refer to an entirely separate off-budget Fed loan program, in addition to some or all of the previously-reported off-budget Fed lending?
Inquiring minds want to know!!!
mike in sa; not a liberal, independent; no the loans are still outstanding, how on earth could Greece, Italy, Ireland, Spain, Portugal, and now Belgium and France pay back the loans, they can not; it is a fractional book entry, using bad loans at their face value, to in plain words cook the books, the federal reserve main purpose is to factor American Treasury notes, almost all from payroll taxes, and leverage at the rate of 7 to 1, it creates moneys out of thin air; the audit showed 16 trillion in loans to Banks in a two year period; all the banks in the world could not make that much profit in 20 years, they hid the audit from the public until a U.S. Senator by the name of Sanders made it public last August, the media refused to make it known, we are in very big financial trouble, all it is going to take is a major default by one or more of the National banks to bring the entire scam down .(all caused by the repeal of Glass Stegal regulations in 1999, Glass - stegal was passed because the same thing that is happening now also happened in 1907 and 1929 .
rico-3714896: Yes. The Fed could be thought of as a sort of holding entity for the US Treasury within the laws and policy of the US Congress. At the outset it was commissioned to do the following. Conduct US monetary policy. Supervise and regulate Banks. Maintain the stability of US financial systems. Provide financial services to the US government, and public and foreign financial institutions. Yes. Trade agreements are purposely set up to pool or integrate money making enterprises to better allow those enterprises a larger portion of profit yield. That being said though, such is always hard to manage, since most enterprises only loyalty is to their own welfare, and accordingly, many set about to cheat, or overtake the others market. Good example is China. The Fed is generally charged with mitigating this by currency manipulation to the extent the US remains the dominant player. The EU's large problem is its ability to maintain its required "mean" currency value within this union of very rich and very poor group of nations. I believe there is at least an "odds even" probability, that the common currency requirement will soon be abandoned, with the union left intact, and the nations using their original currencies at market driven exchange rates. Another aside here. I would bet, if there is in fact, ever a world currency it will be at the favor of, and controlled by the US Federal Reserve, by and for the USA.
Wet Willie,
Split hairs if you must but the Fed is government controlled? Or maybe the government is Fed controlled?
The same Federal Reserve that just screwed us Mac and put us in this depression?
rico-3714896: With all due respect Rico, the Fed did not screw us. Repealed laws and very sloppy regulatory oversight allowed wall street greed to royally ream us. Greenspan did in fact help the greedy bastards, but only at the urging of certain Congressional leaders who were enticing him by pointing to an absence of law forbidding such. One such law was the repeal of "Glass Steagall" which was replaced with "Gramm/Leach/Bliley act" which did away with any "conflicts of interests" banking laws. Greenspan admits to it, even today. Those who wish to kill flies would get more of them, and do less collateral damage, if they would not use shotguns.
Mike in SA. Congrats. You are the only one that answered the biggest question I had. The money has been paid back and the Government made a profit on what they lent out.
I hate banks and bank executives as much as the next guy.
My question to the haters is this: Would you have preferred the banking system fail across the nation and we have another great depression? There were solid reasons for the bank bailouts. Both Dems and GOP supported the bailouts. Probably the last thing they have agreed on.
Terrible article that raised more questions than it answered.
I think we're going to need a bigger guillotine.
I don't know Mac....I think the Fed did screw us in the final analyze. In your words:
And earlier you stated:
So to me Wall Street started it, Congress (everyone in Congress?) joined in and the Fed allowed it to happen making all of them complicit.
I think if we are going to have a Fed we need to define it's role much tighter and decide whether they are really an autonomous entity or if Congress wields power over them. And I really think the main players of this fiasco need some serious prison time. And not in a country club either. If any other group in America did something like this there would be hell to pay...not a slap on the wrist. And why aren't the big names being NAMED?
And if any Wall Streeters are reading this:
Wipe that smug look off your face when you walk by the OWS. YOU'RE THE SCUM! And hopefully we're coming after YOU.
saxon, my apologies. You are definitely not a typical liberal.
mike in sa; no need to apology, , today did you notice the European central banks are asking the IMF for a loan of around 2 trillion ,the fed. reserve of the U.S., contributes 50% of all IMF funding. Bernanke when testifying before Congress admitted that of the first 7.5 trillion the fed reserve issued, two trillion cannot be accounted for, Congress then went about looking into abortion, prayer in schools, gay rights and arguing with each other on how big would their raise in salary be next year, we are screwed, rude and tattooed .
rico-3714896#1.87: Couldn't agree with you more. My explanation of who and what the Federal Reserve is, and was meant to be, was not meant to be a defense of past financial shenanigans, of which the Fed, no doubt shared complicity, with money mongers and corrupt politicians. The politicians though, had to repeal laws and ignore regulations, which allowed the hole through which the Fed entered the muddy stream of American enterprise thuggery. Regards
And more of the truth comes foreward. Nobody can deny now that Capitol hill is in the big banks pockets.
Just goes to show that the Party of No! can be the Partly of Yes!
That's not to say that Democrats are better, they are just a different kind of bad. The end result is the same. The rich get richer and Americas gets stuck with the bill, now over $15 Trillion.
Obtw, good riddance to Barney Frank. 30 years of helping run America into the ground is enough.
The Fed is not a Government entity so they are not directed by the POTUS. The Banks, US goverment and it's citizens as well as all foreign users of the US dollar are it's customers and in that respect hold sway over the FED's decisions and policies. If the FED fails or trust in it is lost, then the ability to trade between nations will come to a grinding halt. No more oil for a energy needs, no more cell phones for the occupy folks to help their protest, no more TV or other household products to make our lives easier. In other words the US and most of the rest of the world would be set back to the lifestyle of the eighteen and nineteen hundreds.
Jake R on Barney Frank
I agree it's good he is leaving. I think more like him will follow suit. These folks don't want to still be in office to take the blame for what they have done over the years when the American Public realize what has happened to them. Far better to retire and seek obscurity or at least be able to say Im not responsible anymore when folks show up with a rope.
Are you saying we couldn't survive without the trade of other nations? I don't see how that is possible. We can't make our own cell phones? We don't drill and refine right here in the U.S.? We don't grow enough food? No more TV? What ...the stations wouldn't be there or is it that TV's aren't made here.
I do not get it!
rico#2.4: We could survive without trading with other nations. In fact, the US was the only self sustaining nation ever. Could be again, but it would be somewhat difficult in today's world. Energy and envy would be our greatest threat from outside.
I think we need to go back to being self substaining for a while Mac. Green Energy!
And Mac.....THANKS! I appreciate it!
All we want for Christmas is for some of these 'crooks' to go to jail. Take some names and send your wish list to your legislators with a little note regarding their future employment if they don't come through. Round 'em up and put 'em away during the holidays. We deserve a little feel good at this time of year.
Translated...the FED, Government, Congress, Wall Street wanted to protect their investments and not have their wealth wiped out and be brought back down to the other 99%.
This again is no different then insider trading.
The FED needs to be dissolved. Period.
Yes, dissolve the Fed! They have helped the banks loot this country for too long.
EVERY Candidate INCLUDING OBAMA has protected the FED.
The ONLY person who is running with the agenda to END the FED is Ron Paul.
Ron Paul 2012.
Greenspan and company funded this whole recession mess in the name of economic stimulation by giving the banks 0 interest loans to enable them to profit. Greenspan later admitted he didn't think the nabobs of banking would cheat. Guess who is going to pay for all this? Obiviously not Greenspan.
@Mr. Rogers
And what assurances do we have that Ron Paul is just not talking a good talk just like Obama did? I have nothing against Ron Paul, but he doesn't have a prayer of winning the Republican endorsement. My candidate of choice is "nobody" or "none of the above". Put that on the ballot and I'll vote that everytime.
And what assurances do we have that Ron Paul is just not talking a good talk just like Obama did?
Ron Paul has about 20 years of consistent voting the same principled way AND saying what is right EVEN when it was unpopular or going to cost him votes.
No one has EVER accused Ron Paul of pandering as there is no such evidence in his long career.
Obama on the other hand had comparably no career relatively speaking to base anything off of... no track record to base his integrity. The few things he did say and work for in the senate he has taken a complete 180 now in the Presidency.
Obama is just another politician whereas Ron Paul is a true statesmen... someone who puts their country first above power, money, and their political careers.
Now it becomes clear that the Occupy Wall Street people, the 99%, Were right all along.
Its time to dissolve the Federal Reserve, and its time to leave the WTO the World Bank and the IMF.
The OWS crowd is anti-capitalist. They are right about the corruption in the banking systems and were they to focus on the politicans who pander to the Fed and on those who get appointed to head key roles in the Treasury and the Fed, they would have my support. Unfortunately, they know something is wrong, but they go after the wrong people. The Fed along with Feddie/Fannie are quangos, organizations that are finaced by the government but act independently of it. There is no congressional oversight allowed into the Federal Reserve System.
As to Ron Paul, he is the only one who has consistently gone after the Fed and he has done so for decades. I trust him far more than I do Obama, Bush or the Clintons.
it has become crystal clear to me that there is only one candidate for president that will get me up off the couch and enthusiastically going out to vote----------ron paul for president. i have many friends and relatives all repub and dems who will be supporting ron paul.
The OWS is anything but "anti capitalist". The movement is "anti oligarchy", and pro "economic equality".
Since the US has $14 Trillion in debt, in what corner of what storage facility did the Fed find this mysterious $8 Trillion and why hasn't it been repaid back to eleminiate some of the deficit?????????? Let's answer those questions before raising taxes, cutting defense spending or reworking medicare and social security!
The money came from thin air. They just made up the number in their accounting records. It's probably the purest form of inflation.
Central banks create money via accounting ledgers. This is money created from nothing. They are supposed to sell bonds to cover the amount but this has not been happening for years as no country has the money to keep pouring TRILLIONS upon TRILLIONS into the US.
Our founders warned us against the dangers of Central Banks... it's time we listen.
Vote Ron Paul to END the FED!
The Federal Reserve Bank is not a Government agency. Where did the money come from? Good question since all 12 Fed banks have total assets of less than 3 trillion dollars.
...and, Mr. Rogers, At least one of them (George Washington) warned us about political parties as well.
Agreed... another reason to elect Ron Paul as his loyalty is to the Constitution and the people over his party. Paul only uses a party because it is the ONLY WAY to play the game to have a chance.
Where is our money: How many golden parachutes did we count? How many mega bonuses? How many foreclosures? How many folks out of work? How much stock market yo-yo have we watched? How many vulture funds? How many governors trying to beat out the middle class (to reap profits)? How many super committees that have failed? Just keep asking the questions, and then you'll have your answers. It's all part of a bigger plan. (And yes, I believe it is a planned conspiracy, right down to the last dollar.)
Even though the masses are fighting back (OWS, [Occupy anything], recall measures, overturning bogus state bills, etc.), it's probably too late. Hang on to your hats, it's going to be a bumpy ride.
Washington warned us of political parties in his farewell address:
http://gwpapers.virginia.edu/documents/farewell/transcript.html
His address is very important to understand what our country was founded upon. He addresses unity (pp. 8-15), authority of the constitution including amendments designed to weaken the government (pp. 16-19), and the danger of political parties (pp. 20-25) among other things.
Madison (the Father of the Constitution) warned us in Federalist #10.
http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa10.htm
The debt is $15 Trillion, but what's another Trillion. That doesn't include an additional $2 Trillion for Iraq, medical, etc. for veterans for the next 60+ years or $7 Trillion for the unfunded Medicare Drug Plan.
The debt is more like $24 Trillion, but politicians won't tell you the truth.
Wonder how much money members of Congress made during this time on insider trading ?....Somebody other than government needs to investigate Congress and all of their staffs....This could be bigger than Madoff
Including the president and his staff
ALL of them Baumgarner....absolutely every single one including those who have left office. George W.....Cheney....your ears burning?
And I forgot Greenspan. He may be old but he's not too old to go to prison.
Bernanke to jail! End the Fed!
There's not enough words to describe my disgust and anger towards the government. Truly pathetic!
Shut down the Fed ASAP and burn the bodies. This is just unbelievable. It makes me sick that these crooked banks can just feed on US money especially after they destroyed our economy.
Scrap the FED now!!!!
What ever happened to Anti-Trust Laws?? Why don't we break-up big banks instead of waiting to shut them down?
Because big banks OWN the government.
Because the Glass-Steagall act was repealed in 1999 by the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. GS was there to prevent conflicts of interest in banks (the granting and using of credit by same entity [read: Ponzi scheme]) and prevented conglomeration of banks. Basically, GS assured a safe banking system.
Most economists and members of the general population (including Paul Ryan and Newt Gingrich) agree that repeal of GS was a major cause of our current situation and needs to be reinstated. The only people that don't think so are John McCain and Phil Gramm (Gramm being author of the GLB Act and McCain's "economic" brain for the 2008 election).
Everything I've written here is an extreme gloss over the situation, but there's enough info here to look up what I'm talking about.
banks got those laws nutralised.
This is old news, way old. Those of you who thought this was about mortgages and fannie and freddie were not looking behind the curtain and were only looking at the dangling keys the Wall street ripoffs were putting out there as the problem. You didn't really think the foreclosure of some roughly 300 - 400 billion in mortgages brought an economy that produces trillions to it's knees, did you?? The "securitized"(S&P are liars) mortgages were spun up into "derivatives"( highly leveraged (nobody puts up real money) instruments that because of the math can't (more lies) go bad (they did spectacularly) and then gambled by Wall Street all over the world. Huge investments with no collateral made by, and please hear this, WALL STREET, NOT HOMEOWNERS. They purposely obfuscated derivatives to the point that almost no one except the thieves understood them. And they didn't know who held what responsibility, on purpose. Again the mortgages were only the excuse you've heard. Now trillions lost makes more sense as far as bringing the US economy to it's knees. And for the drown it in the bathtub crowd, although Wall Street created this problem with help from it's politicians in the government, once the private credit dried up, only government action and the FED kept this economy from spinning into the abyss, probably worse than 1929, at least for now............ How's that corporations are people argument working out for ya?
Pat in SoCal would you please look at my post #1.65 and shoot me off an email if you have time. I really am trying to understand what's going on here!
I would appreciate mail from anyone who really understands this if you don't mind.
Pat in SoCal #9.4: Appreciate your informed post. Too many shooting phantoms with 10 gauge's here.
Read "Confidence Men" by Ron Suskind, this is all in there and more. It will make you SICK.
Ah...so a corrupt financial and political system failed. It happens. Now, there are two choices: reform both and move on or wait for radical change to something different. Personally, I prefer the former over the latter.
Considering the latter most likely involves gunfire, I prefer the former too. But however it happens it's clear we can't continue down this road much longer.
Stone6: Ahh, here you are. Been writing above so much I've developed cramped hands. There is a poster on here by the name of "rico" who wants to understand this mess. I think he is sincere. I know of no one better able and informed than you to do it. Help him if you have the time please. If you don't just now, then, I hope he will follow your posts and learn. It is good to see you again my learned friend. Best regards
Thanks Mac. I have my eye on him.
Hey, MSNBC - why isn't this the headline at the top of your website?
It was the headline at 5:00 a.m. when I first logged on.....
I'm pretty sure MSNBC uses clicks to auto arrange the headlines on the page. That way the most popular stories are automatically moved up. So if it wasn't at the top it wasn't the most popular.
this happens during the Bush adm, so blame Obama.
There is always one who blames President Bush.
It could not have been Obama's fault as he is always out campaigning...
If you still think there is a real difference between Obama and Bush you are still in the dark.
I'm just amazed at the people who will blame one and not ALL. I'm amazed at those who say OWS should direct their wrath at Washington. There is no one in Washington who has any power. They are just bought and paid for by big corporations. BOTH Democrats and Republicans. And none of this will ever change until people stop sitting around blaming "the other side". There is only ONE side that controls ALL the money. The ultra rich. If you think otherwise you're an idiot. If you're not an idiot, join us at your local Occupy Wall Street protest.
Robert, no one can be bought that isn't for sale. All the money in the world can't make an honest man do anything dishonest...and a dishonest man always has a price.
The issue resides in Washington. The "ultra rich", as you call them, lobby on behalf of their own interests but so does everyone else. If they can write a bigger check, fine- but again, is the fault theirs or the person who cashes that check?
Both Bush and Obama are just sock puppets, as are the political parties they represent.
I wish that were the case, Tambo, but I believe the vast majority of people are whores. All a buyer needs to do is find the right price, and with billions at their disposal, those looking to buy are much more likely to find a purchace than not. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think I am.
Thieves of unmatched proportions. Occupy these crooks, burn them down. enough is enough. They are at it under the cover of darkness. Outrageous. Show me a politician with Ball$ who will shut these thieves down. break them up and regulate the hell out of them. And then throw the crooks on both sides into regular prisons. ENOUGH!!!!!!!
I'll show you a politician who has predicted this and yet more to come AND has solutions. But, alas, the mainstream is STILL telling us he can't/won't be elected. Are we still listening?
RON PAUL 2012!
I am disgusted with the Republicans but I hear Ron.
Ya, and not a dime to help homeowners caught in the mortgage fraud. When are executives at the ratings agencies going to jail for the fraud they committed? When are the geniuses behind the MERS fraud going to jail? When are the bankers that promised people they could refinance before their mortgage rates reset going to jail for fraud? When are the bankers going to jail for perjury before Congress?
The wealthy know that they own the government and are above the law. The rest of us suffer in hopeless servitude.
You took the words right out of my mouth, Renee. The "justice" system only works against the common man. The very wealthy and politicians are above the law. It is so not right.
No surprise the media dedicates only a few paragraphs to this cookery of all time. Media, feds, banks - see no evil, say no evil, hear no evil. Rise people rise, and occupy.
It's a simple formula: the Fed loans money to big banks at 0.1% interest, the banks then buy Treasury Bonds that have a yield of 3%, and the banks make billions in profits. We're basically paying banks for the honor of loaning them large (or perhaps the right word is obscene) amounts of money. Oh, and then we lower the income tax rates for the executives at these banks who pulled the con job just to make sure a little extra salt gets into the wound.
This is how the middle class subsidizes the purchase of 2nd, 3rd and 4th homes, yachts, and private jets for wealthy bankers.
How many of these bankers do you suppose there are? The "middle class" is a pretty good sized group. Must be a real burden carrying all those bankers on our backs....actually, NBA bench-sitters make more than most bankers....ever been to an NBA game? How'd you like the price of the ticket? Carrying around all those NBA players is a pretty heavy burden for the middle class too....and NFL players, and ...well, you get the point.
Exactly, Grand- the people who are so against Occupy Wall Street really need to read this article repeatedly till they get it through their thick skulls that the banks and big multinational corp own the US government. They say "jump" and the Congress asks "how high?". The rest of us are just along for the ride.
On the Roman Galley that is our "ship of state", the citizens are the ones chained to the oars below decks; rowing thier asses off, while the guys in the purple robes up top are enjoying the breeze.
I'll give you just 1 example. Last year, General Electric made over $14 billion in profit. They paid $0 in taxes. They received $3.5 billion in tax credits from the IRS. My family paid $28,500 in taxes last year and we are by no means rich.
To support GE getting all of this corporate welfare, it took 122,807+ families like mine just to cover GE credits.
Now Verizon, Dupont, Boeing and a whole slew of others did the same thing.
Think about that.
Stan..... every-time I think about I fear my head will explode. this is just so screwy I am at a loss of words
Think about this, then. The top 200 mega-corporations in this country took $222 billion in tax credits right out of the IRS coffers. This is our tax money they're taking.
Doing the same calculation as above, it took 7,789,473+ families like mine to pay that much in taxes just to cover this corporate welfare. As the average family is 3.5 people, that means it took 27,262,805+ men, women and children, to support corporate welfare for this richest 200 corporations.
That's over 27 million people whose taxes just disappeared into corporate pockets with nothing to show for it. That's more people than live in the entire state of Texas, a very large and populous state.
So do you think I am against welfare for the poor in this country? NO! I am against welfare for the rich. Because, they get so much more of it.
Go OWS!
hear hear stan!!
Now isn't this interesting. The banks have trillions, given to them by the feds, and the banks are now NOT lending us that money to get the economy going. Somethings very wrong here. Who is making these decisions if no one knew this was going on?
There's got to be more to this that we are not being told. Our government is propping up these institutions to the detriment of every one of us.
The Federal government needs a complete overhaul.
It's been clear from the begining. Mitch McConnell stated that the main purpose of the republicans is to make Obama a one term president. Now if we look at the track record of these rebublicans they demand debt reduction but God help us if the co-oporations and wealthy who are corruptly hedging our future are not to be touched...hummm...how many repubs signed the Norquest agreement...not to say democrats are innocent but we can see who is working for the little guys and who is blindly loyal to the fat cats, individuals and coorporations. Many democrats tried to place restrictions on the banking sector while advacning many attempts to extend unemployment for those without jobs and how many phyllibusters did we see out of the repubs...more than in the history of government. How many repubs have voted to help any type of liberal bill that would help regular Americans...zero...zip. Obama has to be frustated but the party of obsructionism...as demanded by Mitch on his first speech "remove Obama". They do not represent even 10% of the Americans with their co-operate agenda. They dont want to even talk about ending the Bush tax cuts saying "it would burden the job creators...bullsit...they are showing their loyalty to those who are ramping up their campaign funds through super-pacs, wall street donors, including big business banking. Clear evidence shows that during the Clinton era of higher tax rates we grew more jobs than during bush era. Obama and many democrats have taken financial and political heat from wall street reform legislation. Many people complain about Obama, but in the face of historic phyllibusters and not one rebublican willing to cross the aisle to govern for all...All of these steps leave families left to lose their homes, wipeout their IRA's, run out of unemployment benefits because there are no jobs because the banks are sitting on our money preventing new construction loans and many other economic boosts to hard working Americans. Democrats want to invest in our country and put Americans back to work through dangerously needed infastructure repairs, high speed transportation and many other job creating ideas...the republicans collect their weekly check yet obstruct every measure that would put money in HONEST Americans pockets...I plead with all of you it's about sides and the only way to win is to vote straight ticket democrat or this country is headed to even more disparity between the "haves and the have nots". Obviously this split government is not working and the republicans have shown their true colors time and again...when u go to the voting booth change the rules to represent you by voting straight ticket Democrat...yours Truly
FACT CHECK WARNING: This article is very misleading. The vast majority of the $7.7 TRILLION mentioned at the top of the story was in the forms of overnight liquidity loans and similar short-term loans, which go on all the time during the normal course of business, albeit in larger quantities during the crisis. This is the so-called "Fed Discount Window" (learn more at ).
THAT MEANS this money was used to "lubricate" the financial system during the 2008-09 financial crisis. Most of it was paid back in a matter of hours, days or weeks. DON'T MAKE THE MISTAKE of believing that this money is still waiting to be paid back (aside from the obvious cases like AIG and GM). The Fed Discount Window is used constantly throughout the year for this type of short-term liquidity lending. Always has been.
I don't like the big banks any more than you do, but what I really hate is bad financial reporting. This story is right up there with the worst financial journalism I've ever read. BEWARE!
Good point.
Peter, Peter, Peter. You know as well as I do that rational discussion has no place on these blogs. Very good point though. The article is inflamitory BS. MSNBC can do better.
You are ok with the FED giving banks money at near ZERO percent interest out of thin air so they can use it to buy bonds and make money off of the tax payers?
And sorry I don't buy your explanation. If someone needs 1 Trillion for a DEBT how can they pay it back in months when they don't earn at least that amount to PAY it back?
No, this money is likely being used to cover loses in derivatives.
Bloomberg article is much more accurate than this one. It does say that nearly all of the loans have been repaid but it explains that the below market interest rate loans added significantly to the bank's profits during the period. Creating money out of thin air doesn't add to the national debt but inflation is here. The government eliminated housing from the CPI and now uses "core" CPI which eliminates food and energy so when government says CPI it doesn'e include housing, food nor energy - A truely fake inflation number!!!
Peter, even if that is so the problem is still that bad businesses (the banks) were bailed out. It's not going to be much longer before they want bailing out again. Somebody needs to tell them: NO. They are no longer viable in their current form. The system as a whole is broken.
Let's see, the financial system collapsed and the broke insolvent banks borrowed money in the short term from the discount window and paid it back. This is partially true.
These too big to fail banks got loans in the trillions at close to zero percent interest. They then charged us poor smucks on their subsidized loans 4 percent on mortgages and 14 percent on credit cards and interest on other various types of loans. Those aren't earned profits these are subsidized profits, they benefitted from their own collapse.
Banks also utilized state liquidity bail out programs such as TGLP (Temprary Liquidity Guarantee Program) What this allowed the banks to do was borrow against the government’s charge card instead of against their own more risky profiles. That way, the banks were able to spend billions less in finance costs on the money they borrowed. Goldman, for instance, borrowed at least $19 billion against the TLGP. How much more would they have had to pay to borrow $19 billion on the open market, without the government guarantee? Hard to say, but the figure is surely in the hundreds of millions.
There were other bailout methods that included getting the state to absorb investment losses (in programs like the PPIP, you kept your investment gains when you bought risky assets, but the state took the losses) and opening facilities that allowed the state to buy worthless assets from banks at above market value. Banks also got to post worthless assets as collateral to the Fed in exchange for cash. None of these things were direct cash injections; they were all sneaky ways to give the banks risk-free “profits” using government guarantees and loans.
The banks mostly paid back the cash bailouts. But they didn’t pay back the money they got via hidden bailouts (like the AIG rescue) and they certainly won’t ever pay back the trillions they received via state guarantees and artificially reduced borrowing costs, which really all came out of our pockets. The bailouts allowed the banks to borrow for less from the state, while simultaneously paying less to private depositors and charging private borrowers more. That’s the real value of the bailout – the difference between how much they have to pay to borrow from the Fed, and how much we have to pay to borrow from them.
Hmmm...the concentration of wealth and power...the concentration of one leads to concentration of the other. And, the concentration of both, in the same hands, leads to stagnation and the preservation of a status-quo oligarchy. It is easier and less expensive to bribe the right politician than to honestly and fairly compete.
It's not quite beyond reform...but it is questionable either of the existing political parties can do so. It is time for new leadership to emerge, dedicated to both serious reform and ideological compromises.
The right reform is decentralization AND reduction of power.
You will NEVER end the greed and corruption of men, but you can limit their influence by reducing the power and reach of what they crave... that is control of our massive central government.
If we lived in a vacuum..quite possibily. Problem is that civilization is trending in the opposite direction. Retreating from globalization, in my opinion, would be somewhat akin to "sticking our head in the sand" and hoping it all just goes away.
There were "global factors" that drove the economic crisis...Asian savings, Basel II banking rules, etc. One could conclude that under the current system, "cracks" in the global banking/financial markets are being "exploited" by those taking advantage of "regulation arbitrage."
I do not mind a "rich class," but I think our democratic-capitalist system depends largely on a reasonably wide dispersion of wealth and a large and prosperous middle class. For that to occur, we need better education, lower cost and better accessed health care, energy independence, and a better balance of revenue and expeditures...however we get there.
I don't necessarily disagree with you...just don't see how we get from Point A to Point B, globally.
National Healthcare, which will soon be there for all to use, does'nt sound all that bad now.
national healthcare means everyone pays ,i hope.
No big surprise here..the banks are currupt and have always taken advantage of the little people..and the government and it's good ol' boy network just keep greasing the wheels..nothing about transparent disclosure or criminal prosecution is ever mentioned..the banks are a big ponzi scheme and we are the victims..thank you again mr. fed..jeez and i thought my @ss couldnt get and sorer..wish we could all play by these rules..time for some big changes!!
And 19,000,000,000 schol kids in this country are homeless!
I think you're off by a large factor. There aren't 19 billion people in the world. Even if you meant 19 million, you're way off. In 2007 there were approximately 53 million school aged children in the US. I don't think 1 in 3 kids in school are homeless. Don't BS to make your point, it makes you look foolish.
Wow, hard to believe since there are only 7,000,000,000 people on earth!!! And to think, your post was voted up, which means there are at least two of you.
It may in fact be time for a Revolution. So sad. Our forefathers did it once and we now have to do it again.
Reading the Declaration of Independence It would it is allowed - read the preamble.
Are you ready to kill and die for change? That IS what is will take. Our grandchildren's grandchildren are being totally RAPED by men in three piece suits and all most do is bitch. Stop crying and start fighting back. This is an economic war and the weapon they are slaughtering us with is OUR MONEY! Take the weapon away. STOP giving them your money. STOP paying income taxes. Stop making payments to banks for mortgages and other "credit" purchases. Your family ALREADY paid for it, generations deep! My wife and I stopped paying the IRS in 2008 and we allowed CITI to foreclose on the house (had the $$$ but refused to send it to them). We told GM to come get their 2007 Lucerne and stick it up their bonuses. No, if you are unwilling to do something as simple as cutting off the enemy's money supply, then I highly doubt if you will ever stand up and risk meeting a government issued bullet.
The Declration of Independence is not a legal binding document
Welcome to "Free Enterprise"
This is not free enterprise. This is CORPORATISM/FASCISM brought on by an all too powerful government that has fallen under the influence of men... This is nothing new.
The secret is to limit the power of government, then there is little for the greedy power freaks to buy.
its stealing, and our public servants allow this, because they are stealing too! vote them all out! all..
Trillions???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Trillions???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Trillions???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Is this why we now have "Occupied Wall Street??" I would go there if I could. Minor heart problem. Okay, major heart problem. Still, this is criminal!
John sorry about the heart problem, but I'll wager you still have more heart than those heartless people on Capitol Hill. This is criminal, but look who is writing the laws the criminals themselves.