E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSSBlack Friday begins earlier than ever, and those extra hours and extra discounts appear to have drawn quite a crowd. NBC News' John Yang reports.
Black Friday mayhem: Shootings, pepper spray
"I thought I was going to get run over," Lindsay O'Rourke said after shopping at a Target store in Tulsa, Okla.
"I was holding onto my aunt so I wouldn't get run over," she told NBC station KJRH.
Thirty-two stores opened at midnight at NorthPark Mall in Davenport, Iowa, NBC station KWQC reported.
Michelle Mandell, an employee at Victoria's Secret in the mall, said people were shoving one other to get to their favorite merchandise.
"It was insane. I had people climbing my merchandise and throwing product through the store. It was crazy," she said.
PhotoBlog: Black Friday shopping starts on Thursday
Despite the down economy, the National Retail Federation predicts a 2.8 percent increase in holiday spending this year over last, with as many as 152 million people hitting the stores this weekend, up 10 percent from last year.
"The electronics are very big — the tablets, the smartphones — but clothing is very big, as well," Jon Hurst of the Retailers Association of Massachusetts told NBC station WHDH of Boston. "And you know, of course, toys always do well in any economy."
NYT: Friday's deals may not be the best
People began lining up early this week to keep their spot in line for Friday's sales at a Kohl's department store in Boise, Idaho. Some people planned out their shopping route, dividing up family members to cover the store faster.
"We have people all over. We have people in the kids department. We're in the linens department. We have an aunt that is down in the clothing department," Jess Huntington of Boise told NBC station KTVB.
"We've got it covered," he said:
Matt Lokay, general manager of a Best Buy store in Wichita, Kan., said it was "a lot busier than I expected."
TVs, games, and gadgets were flying off store shelves across the country. NBC's Janel Klein and CNBC's Julia Boorstin report.
"Our line actually went all the way down 21st Street by the apartments next door," Lokay told NBC station KSN.
"You get great deals and save a lot of money," said Jennifer Duda, who waited outside a Toys 'R Us store in Wichita, which opened at 9 p.m. Thursday.
"My mom is going to the left and I'm going to the right, and then we're going to meet in the electronics with a cart, hopefully," Duda said.
Leave a Comment:
Capitalism at it's finest hour....
Very Sad, its free country and good for them but I must say it looks like we have finally succumb to mass consumerism. China and Corporate America boardrooms are laughing all the way to the bank. The sheep have come home..
Thankfully, I have been able to escape coming under the trance of consumerism my whole life. I attribute this to my parents who taught us to buy only what we need. It has served me very well. I want for nothing.
consumerism does not equal capitalism
One plays off the other, does it not?
"Despite the down economy, the National Retail Federation predicts a 2.8 percent increase in holiday spending this year over last, with as many as 152 million people hitting the stores this weekend, up 10 percent from last year."
That's half the population. I hope that's the half who are paying taxes, don't have underwater mortgages, maxed out credit cards, and not under government care (i.e., food stamps and medicaid).
Those people shouldn't be allowed to celebrate the holidays? Wow!?
How embarrassing to be an American today.
mozzie -
If you're talking about capitalism providing an abundance of comparatively affordable products and the ability of consumers to purchase those products to the point where consumers became addicted to that abundance, then yes, they are interrelated.
I have never been one to blame the supplier for the weakness of the addict.
@Livinginthewoods: Why do you equate celebrating a Christian religious holiday with unaffordable, unbridled consumerism? One need not buy things to celebrate. That is the mindset that is bankrupting this country. My point is, if you are going to spend beyond your means, than don't later complain about your predicament and seek relief from your debts along with that government handout.
Capitalism provides things people want for the going market price... Nothing more.
If you don't like it, move to North Korean.
If it's human nature which bothers you, tie a nice heavy metal chain around your ankles and go for a swim in the ocean.
What it provides is the illusion that infinite growth is reality when it's not.
Consumers have already ankle chained themselves. The oceans are the big box stores they're swimming in, sinking lower and lower and..
<"Move to North KoreAN".> Uh-huh.
knock yourself OUT !!!..spend till ya drop, while others sit comfortably in their yacht....
I sat back and ate soup and sandwiches watching a perfectly serviceable flat-screen I bought second-hand off someone who bought a new one last Black Friday. It burned-out four months later and no, he can't have this one back. Better luck this year. ;)
Karl Marx, first and foremost a sociologist, noted that as the power of the monarchy and the church declined, status would be attained by the possession of material goods.
Capitalism= materialism= consumerism.
There's capitalism and there's greed. One is admirable in its pursuits because it provides goods and services that people need in order to live comfortably. The other is a situation where a supplier creates a product that it wishes to promote for the sake only of monetary gain, regardless of whether its production negatively affects society, our young children or the environment; and hopes to create a need for that product targeting, mostly, those among us who are less sophisticated to their ploy. A prime example is the multi-billion dollar cosmetics industry that targets young people. There was a time when the only people who wore the abundance of face makeup that we see on young girls today, were streetwalkers. Now, I see 12-, 13-, 14-year-olds who look like they are 25 because of all the makeup they are using. These girls are extremely vulnerable to the teen magazine ads that promote this stuff. The cosmetics (to say nothing of the fashion) industry is continuously telling our children that they are not good enough the way they are. Plus the fact that looking like they do is jailbait. I think this is wrong.
Pigs feeding at the trough.
How pathetic they are.
Mozzie: What you're describing, I attribute to the general failure (or lack of) parenting today. I really didn't care what teen magazines showed as being "cool", my daughter did NOT go out dressed and made up like some cheap streetwalker. Her mother and I made sure she had the self esteem and confidence to be herself, not to follow the mindless crowd.
NOW they're blaming "the rich" for people who can't control THEMSELVES! Does no one have to be responsible for ones' SELF any more? Just blame it on......SOMEthing, SOMEbody else? Disgusting...
Hell will freeze over before I would ever particapte in this nightmare just to get a piece of plastic crap electronic gizmo made in China.
"with as many as 152 million people hitting the stores this weekend"
Actually it was 151.99999million, I did NOT participate.
It looks as though the 99% aren't really doing so poorly. Knock off the lies you progressives. This is still the richest country in the world whether you like it or not. And most of us have our "share" when we work for it.
I would say most of these people didn't go shopping last night for others - they bought for them selves - me included. I replaced my 23 year old stereo amp and my 8 year old monitor. I only have to "gift" my son, his wife, and my grand daughter - I just send them money. My wife gifted her self two weeks ago with a nice jewelry box (more like a chest...lol) on line. I'm done till next year.
My wife on the other hand thinks she has to buy for every relative - it must be a Catholic thing - every Catholic I've ever known goes bonkers at Christmas - first time I went to her parents for Christmas, it made me sick. So much for that saying about Jesus being the reason for Christmas.
When my son was a kid I'd take him to what ever stored he wanted and gave him an amount to spend - to this day he says that was way better than getting stuff at Christmas that other bought for him. It also taught him the value of money - he would pick out what he wanted and if he went over his allocated amount he had put something back.
Aggie; I know one person who can't blame others for his lack of self control - Michael Jackson - too bad a jury can still blame others for his own choices. I have chronic pain and sleep problems because of the pain - when a med is too strong I stop taking it, not take more of it.
mozzie - not sure where you live or grew up - but girls and women today wear much less make up than they did in the 40's and 50's - they don't even wear pantyhose these days. Could it be you see others as you want to see them and not as they really are? I know some of your comments to me fit that scenario....and to answer your question last week - no I have no fear of dying - already died once, it wasn't a big deal.
So, what is it in some people that make them go crazy when they shop? Major lack of reasoning when you camp out for two days just to get a product.
JH: This progressive and the progressives I know won't be spending much this year as we can't afford it. I'll be struggling to afford the gifts my kids want. I guess others feel they have to hit these sales to afford nice gifts and that may explain some.
This country may be rich, but those riches belong to the very few. Nice cheap shot at the middle-class (which is really low), but it won't work.
If the people you buy for are concerned about the cost, they aren't worth getting anything. If they don't understand you are having trouble making ends meet, they deserve nothing. It's not a cheap shot, heck, if you've got it and want to spend it, more power to you. My friends and family would be perfectly happy with something homemade.
yakfitguy
The majority of middle class Americans are thankful for what they have.I happen to really appreciate being one of the 99%. If you feel that I am making a "cheap shot" at the middle class then "go to hell". That is a quote from the number one democrat leader of the House of Representatives of the United States of America. So it really shouldn't be collapsed.
The people they quoted acted surprised that it was "crazy and insane" and that they might get run over?
WTF did these Einsteins expect?
I'm sorry....I just don't remotely get it. Its really weird and sadly, I can't find any humor in any of it.
drainbramage...Extravagant gifts and gifting is NOT a Catholic "thing". If it's your wife's family "thing", that's all it is, her family's thing. No need to use that as a excuse to slam the Catholic Church. If anything, the Church is and speaks against celebrating Christmas as an extravagant materialistic event. It promotes and participates in any number of programs, year round, but especially at Christmastime, to provide food, clothing, gifts and outreach for all people in need.
You must be responding to another's comment.
JH: Why don't you go to hell yourself you offensive tool.
LMAO
mozzie - read your comment and weep - liar. Call people names then act dumb when you get busted.
http://health.newsvine.com/_news/2011/11/17/8858978-your-odds-of-reaching-90-keep-getting-better?last=1321555688&threadId=3274436&commentId=60149282
Aggie - like I said - I know several Catholic families who do the over spend thing.
If I wanted to slam the Catholic church - I got far better examples of why they suck than their Christmas doings, or haven't you noticed what they are in the news for? Christians call out Muslims for be-headings when Catholics were doing this just 200 years ago. Half the Bible isn't even from/of the Bible - it was added 300 years after the writings of the Bible by the Pope.
Like Christians don't shop on Black Friday - give me a break - they are just as consumed as the rest of us.
Apparently this is important to you, but suffice it to say that you misinterpreted my post. I'm sorry you have reached the conclusion that you did. Please accept my apology for your misinterpretation.
The real bottom line. Nobody cares that much, or they would stop having black friday.
Overspent American lard asses clamoring over each other to buy cheap junk to make themselves feel better. Pathetic.
How do you know what they were shopping for? Cheap junk? If that's what your computer is, perhaps they were looking for the same brand/model.
This is like a scene from the original Dawn of the Dead circa 1979: the zombies return to the mall, out of instinct. Mindless consumption was the essence of their existence when they were alive; now that they're undead, the reflex to shop is all that remains of their humanity.
Is that your way of justifying not being able to afford anything this holiday season, Marlen?
Marlen is right........Spending 5-10 hours of time to maybe save $100, has value only if you are making low wages. I am sure very few businesses are having employees wait in line for these great bargains. People with money, and businesses buy what they need when they need it. The only reason anybody times their purchase for this event is; if they don't need it, but simply want it. As marlen says.. things to make them feel better
Save $100? If that's all you are saving, you're doing it wrong.
All in the name of baby Jesus, right? Americans at their finest....lol
uh, i dont think this is what jesus had in mind
Gimme-gimme. I want, I want. "get your hands off my stash, it's mine!"
Ah, the true meaning of Christmas. Kinda makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside, doesn't it? Rediculous, pathetic,...so shallow.
Sorta reminds you of our New Social Society doesn't it.
"Gimme-gimme. I want, I want. "get your hands off my stash, it's mine!""
All I want from Social Security is what I put in over the years, plus a decent rate of interest - nothing more. I don't think that's too much to ask. That's what we were promised.
mozzie-the comment was Social SOCIETY not Social Security
Marji: Oh, yeah. I read it wrong.
My business partner and I eat breakfast at Bob Evans every weekday morning. We eat late, around 10 am. The place is always packed and so is the Perkins we sometimes go to instead. There are lots of restaurants near by, so it isn't the only place in the neighborhood, and we aren't even eating at a peak time.
Now the "insane crowds" for Black Friday.
I'm beginning to question just how financially strapped people really are.
Mozzie:
You may have read it wrong, but your point is valid anyway.
@Whosaid - :)
Wow and to think I stayed home last night and then came to work today man I miss all the fun .......NOT. There is something in the water cause people are getting nuttier and nuttier.
Yeah its called FLUORIDE. Read up on it sometime, will blow your mind...
I'm so lucky I'm at work and not there with the other materialists....jockeying for position, pushing, shoving, and acting like general arses. If this is how people behave during the holidays, I'd hate to see what happens when the zombie apocalypse occurs!
Societe Generale Bank warned last week; "Prepare for global collapse". Today's article in the Economist warns; "Euro collapse is looming".
And yet the sheeple keep getting deeper in debt. You have no one to blame but yourselves. LOL.
Well, if the economy does collapse like you said, it is actually better to be fully in debt now, knowing that it will all be erased in the collapse. The best bet would be to head to the local gun shop, buy a few good weapons and all the bullets you can. Max out the credit cards. DO EEETTTT
You believe a zombie apocalypse is coming?
It already came. They were all out last night and through the early morning. We went to watch the horrible debacle. They zombies were everywhere, shouting: "More! More! Cheaper! Cheaper!" Outstretched arms were clawing at merchandise. Nothing was left on the shelves and when those zombies who arrived too late saw that, they headed for other display cases. Survivors were frantic until they saw the only way to stop the zombies was to say: "Your credit card has been rejected."
This is one of China's favorite days of the year because we Americans are all suckers. We don't care about America anymore all we care is about our big fat ego.Struggling economy, who cares? People without jobs, who cares?
Isn't that the agenda for the Republicans & Teaparty, keep as many unemployed as possible, make sure the economy does not recover, and oh yes the party of NO whether its Obama's Job Plan, or raising the deficit, and this is happening in almost every state where there is a Republican or Teaparty Governor, time to WAKE AMERICA!
Geez, give it up, stop blaming someone else because Obama is a failure.
I would love to see America have one Christmas where no one bought presents, no one gave in to our consumerism culture, but instead took their families to give a day's work to a charity, help an elderly neighbor, or clean up a road, do something to show the true meaning of Christmas which is love and charity, not the gimme presents attitude. Almost all the stuff we buy now will be in a Goodwill store or in a landfill in a couple of year's time. Money put in a savings account at a credit union instead will do a person much more good.
Our family gave up on Christmas gifts a couple years ago. It got to the point that all we were doing was buying each other complete JUNK that none of us wanted. Was a stupid waste of money. We get together for a nice feast and play some cards now, thats all.
Exactly what is our christmas? jews believe in 12 days of gift giving... we actually have songs about it. I have a job and contribute in taxes. My mom lost her job a few months ago. She needed surgery to get her gall bladder removed because well she's almost 60 not because she drank as 40% do. She lost her job because they found it cheaper to give someone else the job rather than give her the time off. She's a nurse at a hospital of all places. Black friday gave her the ability to buy my dad a gift ( a laptop ) for 40.00. granted it was a crap laptop but he'll never know. we may be a capitalist country but don't bite the hand that gives the 40% of the nation unemployed the ability to give someone a decent gift and if they are willing to spend 8 hours waiting in line doing it then god bless them... that's what giving is
I wonder if these same shoppers would stand in lines for hours if they knew Jesus Christ was going to be at the store waiting for them?
Bet I'm going to take flack for this post.
They probably would if Jesus Christ was holding a doorbuster deal on a TV set.
ok I just laughed out loud at that one
That's exactly what it would take to make me stand in line for hours to get into a store...except I wouldn't be rushing in to buy anything!
I don't believe Jesus was materialistic. BUT, I don't think he would mind people buying presents for people they loved as long as they could afford the presents. What was the question?.....ha ha, having fun with this one.
with so many without jobs I don't think jesus christ as you so put it would mind so many waiting hours and sacrificing so much to give?
HadEnough-3538363....sounds like a bunch of you have already been sold a bill of goods !
Here we go again. The 99% eager to hand the 1% our money. Ever wonder what would happen if we all just donated to a soup kitchen or homeless shelter instead of running for the latest gadet? Want to make an impact on the 1%? Keep your money this Christmas, put in a fund for your childern or donate to a charity. Then we might actually see a change in the way the 1% treat the 99%.
Even most of the OWS protesters don't have a problem with people having wealth. The anger is (mostly, but not all) toward the CEOs and corporations such as Enron, Bear Sterns, MF Global, Lehman Brothers, and Goldman Sachs. They gambled with money that wasn't theirs and drove the financial jet straight into the ground and we as taxpayers picked up the tab. There were even performance bonuses awarded and million-dollar severance packages given after the near-collapse of our whole financial system. We should all be concerned about that. Now make a product people want and few will argue against success.
I object to this madness they call Black Friday. I don't think that the local small business owner should be lumped in with the 1%, because they are not part of the 1%.
Instead of perpetuating this insanity, what if everyone spent their money locally and only shopped at those mom and pop stores that will offer you deals starting at the reasonable (for Black Friday) hour of 6 am?
Or give handmade gifts instead? Make something with your own hands or offer to do something for someone else the rest of the year? Or, as you suggest, volunteer your time or give to charity?
Here we go afain which was uttered in 2000, 1990, 1980, 1970 and on and on.
Guess Americans have not had their lesson from the 2008 recession! Keep on buying those cheap goods made in Asia and for things you don't need just to keep up with your excessive consumer neighbour. USA the shoppingest country in the words!! Maybe the 2013 depression will wake you up. Stop blaming the 1% by not patronizing the 1%. Idiots all!! You shop at all the bix box stores instead of patronizing your local merchant. You get what you deserve.
jacques...Some of us in rural areas have no choice but to shop at the big box markets - those big boxes ran mom and pop out of town years ago and we have nowhere else to buy our necessities without driving 100 - 150 miles each way. With the price of gas, who can afford to drive that far to buy food???
Impossible to find a parking space anywhere !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The problem is that people went to these earlier hours! The problem is we get gifts to show our love but we show no love in those stores getting the gift!!! The problem is that FAMILY time is less important than the gift we fought for. Christmas starts off as a brawl!!! I wonder how proud those children and family members are of how we got the gift? "Peace on Earth Good Will Twards Men", "Let there be Peace on Earth"???????
I really do not care what everyone says, I do it every year and I have a BLAST, I do not buy presents for anyone, it is all about for ME and for my dog!!!! It was such a great time again this year, Meeting new people while standing in line, singing Christmas Carols,,,having breakfast delivered,,,and in WI the weather was actually warm this year,, A balmy 45 degrees. Can not wait again to do it all over again next year!!
What you describe sounds like fun indeed. I think the anger on these boards is over the fights, the shoving, and the property damage. I'm also assuming you don't shop at Walmart. I've had one too many bad experiences during normal hours to try shopping there during Black Friday. Don't think anyone would have a problem with people having a good time if some weren't taking away from the pleasantness of someone else's trip.
That's the way it always was in Montana. My daughter and niece and I would make our strategy and get hot chocolate and we would have fun chatting with people and it was always no pushing and fun. One year though my son and I were in Buffalo, NY and it was crazy! These two women started fighting and I was like quick get in the store and away from the crazies! He swore he would never go again! LOL. Not like that in Montana. Guess we were all raised with manners.
The articles I previously commented on have been taken off, so it's back to square one.
The insanity is rampant among the brain damaged morons. That includes about everyone over the age of five that left their brains (what little they had of them) at home. Holidays are as moronic as those idiots and their insanity, holidays might have had meaning five or more decades ago, but not since then.
Name-calling is both puerile and a big no-no.
Please try to figure out why that might be.
American People are finally able to buy what they want and that keeps more Americans in jobs, making and selling things, so they can spend and buy what they want and all that helps the economy grow and get out of this recession and it gets America back on the right track to being strong again and yet some nay sayers complain and act like Scrooges and don't want anyone to buy any thing from anyone !
As long as humans could for centuries, have worked and got paid for it and then were able to buy things, there always have been a few rotten, rude people that act terrible while shopping and push and fight for items, but most people are raised good and want to be kind and decent and don't act rude, that all is just human nature and that will never change, no matter where they live..
Are you serious? First of all with 9% unemployment in this country I doubt that there are people saying finally I can buy something. To say nothing of the fact that what people are buying probably isn't made in America as we haven't much of a manufacturing base left and the only jobs that any of this buying is saving are low paying ones with no benefits.
As far as a "few rotten, rude people that act terrible" well that is becoming more than a few and it is all amounts to greed..... I don't recall this kind of thing happening before they started this frenzy of Black Friday Sales........ this is nuts.
I have never participated in this nonsense and never will.
You nailed it right on BarbieGirl-936850..................... What is really worrisome is that some of these very same sheep probably vote. The clueless are coming and hell's coming with them.
Yeah, people are becoming more and more messed up in the head.
Black Friday isn't the problem, it's a symptom. I'm not going to wax all Christian, but our secular culture worships $$$, and No, people wouldn't line up for a shot to meet Christ like they do to save $100 on a tv. Maybe the saddest thing is, on a different day, would they take $8.00/hr to stand in the cold for 12 hours?
If you were there for a sense of community, I think that's great. Strangers acting like neighbors is a step in the right direction. Any peaceful religion should agree with that.
We are a lost people. I believe people get what is REEEAAAAALLLLYYYY important to them. If it's a TV, they sacrifice whatever is necessary for that tv. If it's a fine Thanksgiving with family and/or friends, they will make that happen.
I wish you all the best, and hope you receive your blessings, whether it's here in the form of an xbox, or something less tangible. That being said, I wouldn't mind a few new works shirts. :-) GBU all
Paul: "Black Friday isn't the problem, it's a symptom. I'm not going to wax all Christian, but our secular culture worships $$$, and No, people wouldn't line up for a shot to meet Christ like they do to save $100 on a tv. Maybe the saddest thing is, on a different day, would they take $8.00/hr to stand in the cold for 12 hours?"
How true! Mass insanity has never been more evident than what's been televised about the Black Friday events. As you accurately put it, how many of those people would actually take an $8 per hour job, doing ANYTHING? Far easier to collect the government checks without any effort on their part.
Now, if I had the chance to meet Christ by standing in that line, I would definitely be there!
Why anyone would go shopping in such an atmosphere is beyond me. What a stupid senseless waste of energy. Sounds like pure misery.
stanimal7: I agree! Many years ago shopped once on Black Friday - never again - been there, done that, won't do it again. It WAS pure misery. Our family prefers a traditional X-Mas. Yes, we give gifts, but not something as enormous as a HDef TV. Greed, greed, greed. We celebrate the birth of Our Lord Jesus Christ and share love. Love is priceless . . .
These morons filling the coffers of the greedy-corporations make me gag. Get a life.
So, this day after Thanksgiving might be the busiest shopping day of the year!
I swung by Walmart to see the insanity last night. It was typical in terms of all the crazy people, but the most appalling thing I saw were the people pushing strollers around! Not only was it midnight, there were tons of people, pushing and shoving! Hell, I got rammed by shopping carts by impatient shoppers a dozen times, and these people thought bringing a baby in a stroller was a good idea?!
I never do the black friday bs cause i refuse to be brainwashed by big corporations, also i cant stand human stupidity and black friday is when it coalesces into one huge insane mass.
Once again the 99% have shown us how to make the 1% even ri$her. What many people don't realize or maybe do not care about ... is that for many in the retail field could NOT enjoy Thanksgiving. They had to be at work or be there by midnight! Do we really need to make the ri$h even MORE ri$h? And at what expense to the retail worker? Shame on anyone shopping on Thanksgiving or at midnight black friday. It really IS ALL about them.
No, you could stay home until you no longer have a home.
And pray to the liberal Gods.
Or, you can go to work and be thankful you have a job.
Here is your prime example of "99% vs 1%".
99% percent were women.
The men stayed home and laughed.
L-O-S-E-R-S
ummm.... thinking here only in reference to how BAD things have gotten and that these people are simply perhaps doing their best to get a deal on something..even something that they actually NEED.... while i see and have heard stories of people snagging 3-4 tvs on special at Best Buy, it's unfair to lump every person into this category and call them losers.... quit judging others and look inward please. Hope you had a Happy Thanksgiving!
Things are bad, but not as bad as they seem.
You CAN find a job.
At one time I had to work THREE to make ends meet.
It is simply a matter of personal fortitude.
Some people who had high paying jobs just give up and toss down Prozac.
Understand, you have been knocked down a notch.
Get your ass up and move!
I agree Viewer...Steinbeck's "Grapes of Wrath" should be required reading for any one with time to kill while waiting for the job market to improve. If people think THESE are bad times, that book might put things in perspective. (and I'm not saying this isn't a tough economy...I'm saying an able bodied person can find work...even if it means they have to severely budget their money and rely on social relief programs.)
Navy -
What most people don't realize, or are afraid to admit, is that the employment bubble of the 80's and 90's was just that. Even with a reported 9% unemployment, there is still a higher percentage of people employed in the US than in the 70's or earlier. During the Great Depression the employment rate started at around 50% and dropped to under 30% in the worst of it.
"You CAN find a job."
You sit home collecting a government pension telling others how easy it is to find a job?
I do not collect crap, YET.
I work.
I will not receive any money from my "retirement" until I am 62 (if I live that long).
My "retirement" will come form both civil service and my RESERVE military experience.
But even if I had been a "regular" all those 33 years, I would have deserved every penny.
Also, I EMPLOY.
I am an operations manager and hire locally for work I need done.
Don't harp on me, I have been there, done that, and got SEVERAL tee shirts.
That's the confusing part, because Corsair977 gave the impression of active duty time while belittling people.
I never belittle anyone.
I was an ART.
I spent four years on active duty and the rest in a reserve/civil service capacity.
I was "dual", something very few people know about.
ARTs are Air Reserve Technicians.
They perform in civil service as instructors and maintainers and do military time on weekends or when called to active duty.
This role is only done by about 10,00 people in the US.
We are the backbone of the military because of experience levels.
And once again, unless you NEED it, I do not belittle anyone.
Also I have accumulative time on active duty.
I have been in several wars and campaigns.
Both as a civilian and in military status.
The number of ARTs (correction) is about 10,000.
We're all very impressed Viewer. Where would you like us to send our tributes to you?
Really, how many times do we have to hear about your military experience? There are tons of other folks here who have served too. They don't seem to have a need to bring it up constantly. Oh well, maybe it's some sort of insecurity thing. Hope you had a nice hoiday.
No tributes needed.
I am just tired of people who doubt facts.
I am not out to toot a horn.
But expierience is a good teacher.
And all I am trying to do is help.
Sense the desperation of retailers and the ads they sponsor here at MSNBC. This will be the worst year for consumer spending. Will consumers get a big fat pay raise for Christmas ?
Christmas music and displays during Thanksgiving ? Makes me want to defer all purchasing. The worst is the lie handed to us when checking ID with credit cards : "It's for *your* protection."
Viewer_Ready WTF are you typing out
sentence
after
sentence
I have news for you
I've been to Iraq
spent 30 months over there so far
I served
I fought
I lived
I gave my all
Does this make a difference?
No
what the hell are you trying to say with ART and what does this matter about walmart?
Brian-1075075 Interesting stats ! Would you post the source ( and no, I am not questioning them, just would like to read more about the comparisons of the two time periods, you have piqued my interest in the comparable employment rates ).
Viewer_Ready - People don't necessarily doubt your "facts", they doubt your statements. In your comments, the two are often totally independent and mutually exclusive. You speak in absolutes as if what is true and works in one scenario will always do the same in another. That is seldom the case.
If there is one thing I've leaned in life, it's that people who frequently use the words "always" or "never", whether they are ultra right wing conservatives or ultra left wing liberals, are usually wrong.
In Spain they have the Running of the Bulls, in America we have the Running of the Idiots ! Anyone who takes part in this insanity should have their head examined ! Stupid is as stupid does !
Hey, different people and different cultures get off on different things! I am not a Black Friday participater and I am not an Occupy Movement person, but people have their things they get off on. But, I don't believe in going against the law and causing people harm. So, people, have your fun, and stick up for your rights, but do it within the boundaries of the law please......