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Occupy Honolulu protesters demonstrate at a Wal-Mart store in Honolulu early Friday,
Updated 5:57 p.m. ET: The Occupy Wall Street movement is taking its anti-corporate directly to Black Friday shoppers.
Ten Occupy Oklahoma City protesters were arrested Friday morning after a protest at a Walmart store in Del City, Okla., The Oklahoman reported.
Del City police Capt. Jody Suit told the newspaper that officers working off-duty security jobs at the store called for assistance about 2 a.m. because the protesters were causing disturbances in the back of the store.
One of those arrested, Mark Faulk, 55, of Oklahoma City told the newspaper that he was filming the group's "mike check" — in which one member of the group shouts something and then the others in the group repeat what the speaker said — when “Del City police ran and started tackling people from behind.”
Police Lt. Steve Robinson told The Associated Press that no excessive force was used.
Six Occupy Syracuse members were arrested at a protest at Carousel Center mall in Syracuse, N.Y., NBC station WSTM reported Friday.
Protesters had said they would be picketing outside the mall against the "commercialization and extreme over-consumption" of Black Friday, but instead they moved inside. They said they had members on every floor of the mall and had organized a "flash mob" to spread their message.
Occupy protests targeted other retailers across the country.
More than a dozen Occupy Honolulu protesters demonstrated in front of a Walmart store in Honolulu, Hawaii, in the predawn hours, NBC station KHNL of Honolulu reported.
They accused Walmart of supporting child labor and suppressing its work force.
"Sweat shops in China and around the world produce these products," said Alala Zusman, one of the protesters. "People are paying low prices at Walmart, and when Walmart came in here, this neighborhood lost a lot of mom-and-pop stores."
Meanwhile, Occupy Eugene protesters were moving from store to store in Eugene, Ore., urging shoppers to spend less money on what they call "Buy Nothing Day," NBC station KMTR of Springfield reported.
Shoppers at Valley River Center said they wished the demonstrators, who chanted and sing reworded Christmas carols, would just go away.
"I think it's a waste of time," one shopper said. "People are still buying."
Story: Crazed weekend launches crucial retail season
Occupy Seattle planned to hold a rally from noon to 5 p.m. local time at Westlake Park in the downtown retail core, The Associated Press reported. The Seattle group said it was promoting homemade gifts and local businesses as an alternative to what it called "rampant consumerism that plagues society, destroys the environment and supports the 1 percent."
Occupy Atlanta planned to go even further, setting up its own "really, really free market" downtown as an alternative to Black Friday shopping.
PhotoBlog: Black Friday shopping starts Thursday
Organizer Tim Franzen told the AP that the market, which was scheduled to open in Woodruff Park at 3 p.m. ET, would feature free food, clothing and other items.
He said demonstrators want to focus on the people who are struggling to make ends meet while banks and corporations bring in millions during Friday's shopping tradition.
Leave a Comment:
"L"
I hope the protesters get trampled by a stampede of shoppers.
They were not at the Walmart where the wife went. We did 95% of your shopping (three gifts per person).
Exactly why this whole "Occupy" thing will fail. No focus or agenda. Just bouncing around aimlessly.
Pretty soon NOBODY take them seriously.
Toosano- yeah, and generally just being a big pain in the butt too!
IT"S EVEN WORSE THAN WE THOUGHT. @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
IIT's 99.9%
Until the Occupierts say that they are to blame as well as all the institutions and people they point the finger at, they have no credibility.
As a believer in the Occupation movement, I find no reason for this.
And this type of movement can move back to Canada. We are after the banks.
Coach Dan
For what. You don't specify what "this" is, you don't direct it at anyone. I now understand why you support OWS, because they too have no idea what their point is, or who to direct it at. Banks? What the heck does that mean? Shut down the banks? Do you have any idea what banks have done for my country? They have provided the financial support for commerce. And do you know how many millions of people work in lower level jobs in banks? They provide huge employment.
This anti Capitalist view of OWS has to stop. Boycott Black Friday? Wow. Clueless. So you want retail to stay in the red. That is great for jobs.
The consumerism actually helps the economy, even though the scene of Americans feeding like starved pigs at a trough is pretty repellent to me. OWS branching out like this is moving in a direction they really don't need to go. If Wall Street is regulated, and banksters finally held accountable, congress separated from all the money that is corrupting the system, and fair trade put in place, everything else will take care of itself. One thing OWS, and I fully support them, needs to remember is that although they and I stand for the 99%, at least 50% of the 99% are too engrossed in denial to get the point yet, and Wal-Mart serves most of that 50%. It just turns off the poor people shopping there, so it's not really constructive.
It's also hard to explain to your kids, "I'm skipping Christmas presents because the country is corrupted by huge corporations." They just aren't going to get that, and most parents aren't going to fight that fight willingly. Eventually, whey they are too poor to buy presents, they will have to face it, but denial is a very deep ocean.
What is the occupy goal to achieve from the banks?
Isn't it all in the " I have time to protest thing" rather than to have a point?
I support most of what OWS stands for. But, then I remember the 60s. Martin Luther King did not tell the south how to change, just what was wrong. Those in power, when they listened to the wrongs, decided how things needed to change. I think Occupy has a simular goal. Keep telling everyone that the money powers are controling so many things. Then todays legal systems needs to listen and then figure out how to take the power away from the 1% with control through money. OWS is saying the corruption is there, now fix it.
The Occupiers are trying to raise your awareness of how unfair the system has become. The Occupiers are trying to get YOU to think about what YOU are doing to create and support the unfairness in the system. The Occupiers will not change anything for you - YOU must make the change ...
Banks collected about $63 billion from card swip fees in 2010. That is about $201 from every man, woman, and child in the United States. The banks are using card swipe fees to 'earn' $17 a month from every man, woman, and child in the United States. Merchants pay for plastic card transactions so you do not know how much it is costing you. The bank's 'marketing' to merchants is that the use of cards result in consumers spending more when they buy with credit. Even if you do not use a card to make purchases - the prices you pay in the store are higher so the retailers can pay the banks. The banks have found a way to 'socialize' profits ...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304584004576416064098735924.html
http://consumerist.com/2011/11/walmart-mcdonalds-ceos-swipe-fee-reform-may-end-up-hurting-our-bottom-line.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/29/swipe-fees-cap-federal-reserve-wall-street_n_887193.html
Wall Street handed out $20.8 billion in bonuses for 2010. That only shows the bonuses paid in New York state - the bonuses paid in other financial centers are not included. So, $66 from ervery man, woman, and child was paid in bonuses for New York alone. $5.50 per month from every man, woman, and child in the United States were 'earned' by gambling with other people's money.
http://www.economist.com/node/18231330
The Occupiers cannot and do not want to force you to change your behavior. Other protest groups may try to impose their views on you - but that does not describe the Occupiers. Only YOU can change the system - only YOU can end the culture of 'too big to fail' entitlement.
Shop at local merchants. Shop at small merchants. Make your purchases with cash - not plastic. Search for Made in America labels. Starve the culture of 'too big to fail' entitlement ...
The information in this article does not clear, is incomplete also be biasFirst these rioters were the interior wall-Mart demonstrating against the shop. Second, the police intervened to protect customers and the store for possible acts of vandalism. Third they got what they deserve, it has passed the limits of freedom of expression. . If you want to protest do it outside the store but not inside of a private property that provides work for many families in the community. That is why the movement Occupy is wrong and they are an embarrassment for the society.
You're absolutely right, Nerm L, the system has become unfair. Some of the people work their asses off to support themselves and their families, and other people do nothing except whine to the government until it forces the working stiffs to support the freeloaders. Now that's unfair!
When I was young I went to a Viet Nam war demonstration in DC. Then Promptly enlisted in the Military! I went down to the Occupy Detroit and promptly Went shopping and bought a 80 LED Flat screen. I agree with what spider said. People cant expect something for nothing, it just doesn't work. My company has been trying to hire first line design engineers. We have 0ver 100 positions and could only find 12 people qualified on paper and even fewer that actually didnt embellish their resumes. There are a lot of people who can follow directions but not many people who can design and write those directions.
@spider-737231 -- So - you can stop supporting the system, too. Invest your money in tax exempt bonds. Invest in educating yourself - which is tax deductible. Operate your business as a non-profit - you can still save money to expand and will still get your paycheck.
Even a so called 'capitalists' like YOU can change your behavior and change the system. Expending your effort trying to force change on others only feeds the culture of 'too big to fail' entitlement ...
Grow a pair, do some thinking for yourself, and do your part ...
@jollyoldsoul1 -- No doubt you made your purchase with plastic. Everyone else subsidized your purchase because YOU did not pay for the card swipe. YOU just participated in corporate welfare - YOU just participated in 'socialism' ...
Sorry Nerm, I paid cash always do!
@jollyoldsoul1 -- Then you are a closet Occupier. Changes in YOUR behavior that denies the 'too big to fail' entitlement culture to reap easy profits is all the Occupy movement is about ...
Nerm_L, #occupy protesters are the ones that do the most to support the 1%.
All those twitter & facebook postings, iPads, iPhones, laptops, Internet broadband, fuel for their SUVs loaded with signs complaining about the high cost of gas, etc. etc. etc. Guess what, that is just lining the pockets of the people you are suppose to be protesting about.
These people wouldn't have a reason to protest if they spent their time wisely in college instead of spending thousands upon thousands of dollars getting a master's degree in puppet mastery, liberal arts, art history, etc. etc. etc.
Nerm do you always assume you know what everyone does in their day to day life. That would make it impossible to even talk to in a normal fashion.
NERM,
Occupy doesn't want to FORCE their views or force behaviors on us??? REALLY? Hmm lets see, then why is it in CA (Where I live) that on NUMEROUS occasions occupy has occupied city streets that myself & other working people need to use to get to work? (I'm a single mom, trying to support my family - my employer doesn't offer "Occupy-time off" for my tardiness due to Occupy). When I decided to use a store that they're against (who knew?)... they pushed me & yelled obscenities at me.
It would seem to me from MY own personal experiences that they are a "Peaceful" bunch when its convenient, and outright bastards if you try to live your life around them. Originally, I was behind them, and their causes. Now, I'd pepper spray the lot of you myself if you got in my face again.
FYI, I'd really like to see the math used to make everyone part of your 99%, when the majority of the general public think you all need to move on. I think you're all about 39% but that's just me.
Also, I have to laugh at YOU attacking anyone who dared speak against your Occupy regime. Wow. Definitely, you have no desire to control others to your view. Attun! Her General.
@Longhair -- You are saying the value of a person is what they can contribute to the system. Is a person's value measured by their credit rating - by the credit limit on their credit cards - by the size of their purchases? You are saying people should only pursue careers, interests, and choices that are of benefit to the 'too big to fail' entitlement culture. Farmers call such creatures 'livestock' - livestock only live for the farmer's profit ...
The frustration is not with making money - it is how the money is made. The frustration is not with a Steve Jobs - he provided value for his profits. How many people feel cheated by Apple? The frustration is with a Jon Corzine or Bernie Madoff - that provided the least possible value to obtain the maximum profits. How many people feel cheated by Madoff - even if they had no investments with him? How many Corzines and Madoffs are feeding off the system that we do not know about? Who has more influence on our system - a Jobs type individual - or a Madoff type individual?
If you 'earn' your money by 'socializing' profits, by imposing an artificial dependency on your products and services, by providing the least possible value to maximize profits - then you are part of the 'too big to fail' entitlement culture. Occupy is protesting how you 'earn' your money ...
What do you do for a living Nerm?
The occupiers are just losers.
It's just that simple.
Think about what they say:
They don't want the rich to have money, and want to redistribute their money.
But once the money was handed out, they don't want you to buy anything.
Isn't the entire point of money to be able to buy things with it?
Let's be honest, the Occupiers are anti capitalist, anti business, anti free markets, anti consumer spending.
They don't want you to buy anything, and would prefer you live in a cave making your own stuff, growing your own food.
Or in other words - to live like a Mexican dirt farmer. Their big idea is for all of us to live like the poor in the 3rd world.
Oh, wait, I get it - now I know why they are Liberal/Progressive/Democrat/Socialist.
They want to damage America until we are all subsistence farmers in a 3rd world country.
All the taxes, regulations, handouts - all just steps to getting us there.
But wouldn't it just be easier to move into a hut in Cuba?
You tell 'em Ms. Cruz.
OWS is the 1%. They're just too deluded to realize it. If they want to affect change then there are political parties which share their views. The Democratic Socialists Party. The Communists Party.
@Ms. Cruz -- Did you find out why the group was protesting the store? Did you treat them like people or simply as an obstacle to fulfilling your desires?
Treat people like animals - people will act like animals. That does not make the behavior acceptable or excusable. That does not mean I or anyone else should condone that sort of behavior.
What would have happened if your commute had been blocked by a broken down truck or a water main break or any other man made accident? People cause us inconvenience all the time. Are we all so 'special' that we cannot tolerate inconvenience caused by others?
@Wally-1853299 -- ChE - semi-retired.
Nerm_L - a truck breaking down is not purposeful, nor does the truck have ulterior motives. So no it is not the same. Additionally, it is pretty lame for you to blame Ms Cruz for the actions of OWS. They were acting that way because they weren't GETTING THEIR WAY. Ms. Cruz was going about her business taking care of her family. (And more power to her for doing it on her own!) OWS are responsible for their actions, no one else. If they choose to break the rules, whether they be on the law books or the ones of polite society, why should everyone say, "oh that's OK honey, they're OWS?" Being a OWS does not give them the right to break rules and then expect everyone roll over and accept it.
There is now organized pushback from within the Occupy movement, www.occupyblackfriday.info, encouraging folks to show their activism more constructively ...not through boycotts or disruption of commerce this time, but through organized SHOPPING to help boost the US economy and allow more of the 99% to have a voice in this movement.
Both sides are MORONS, everyone is clueless and would not know the reality if it smacked you up side your Dumbass, both sides need to give their mouths a rest ....
Occupy Black Friday? What a ridiculous and silly ploy to get attention, and to just be generally disruptive. It's just goofy and lame, not to mention quite weird.
It is none of these folks business, whatsoever, if people want to buy presents for their friends and family. It's not their money, and they have nothing to say about what other people spend their own money on, or where and when they spend it. Or for what reason they spend it.
The best way to target Black Friday is not to participate, which has been our family tradition for years and years. Who needs the crowds and misery?
FtBrgtrnd,
Thankfully, your comment was collapsed.
The Occupy Wall Street Movement is not the culprit behind America's economic collapse.
Through shrewd and malevolent tactics, Occupy Wall Street did not steal our citizens Investments, Retirement Funds and Pensions.
Occupy Wall Street did not package toxic securities only to sell them as sound investments to unsuspecting investors.
Occupy Wall Street did not engage in the fraudulent mortgage lending practices that have caused millions of Americans to lose their homes.
Through Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, Occupy Wall Street did not stick American TAX payers with the bill for any financial "losses" that were incurred - due to illegal mortgage lending practices.
The movement did not outsource American jobs, suppress wages for our citizens, place a countless number of our citizens on the unemployment line and trough TAX Loophole drain the U.S. treasury of trillions of critically needed dollars.
I do not know what newspapers you are reading or media outlets that you are listening to.
However, you need to abandon you sources of false information...and seek the truth elsewhere.
Abolish Money!
Nerm L What is wrong with you, it appears as thou you have a hard-on for every one but yourself, Ive never seen any one manage to twist things out of proportion quite the way you do. it doesn't matter what a person does you can find fault with it, the fact is people like you are the problem in this society, Do you think people think you are intelligent just because you can twist and mangle the facts at will. when your Socialist Pinko Party comes to power I suppose you will get to be the head of the Secret rat patrol, and bust the kids hiding there allowances from the establishment. some one in a post asked what does NermL do for a living, I don't know but I can imagine its not work, probably a professional student sucking off the system and rotting the minds of young college students. this is the noxious super predator of young minds we have to watch for. this is the type person that desires to bring every thing down to his level.
@Nerm, People will act like animals because we are animals! duh....
There is now organized pushback from within the Occupy movement, www.occupyblackfriday.info, encouraging folks to show their activism more constructively ...not through boycotts or disruption of commerce this time, but through organized SHOPPING to help boost the US economy and allow more of the 99% to have a voice in this movement.
Give love, not stuff?
No.
I like stuff better.
Doesn't say much for you then. I'd recommend that you not advertise your shallowness & smallmindedness.
Meh, at least I'm honest.
So do other materialistic a$$holes like you. Too bad intelligence is missing from your equation.
Wow mark- you're kind of a ding dong. He didnt insult anybody, he didnt judge anybody, just stated that he likes stuff. Most people do, yourself included- or is the computer your typing on made from chicken wire and hemp?
The thing I don't get is how these kinds of movements get started and continue to begin with. There is no single person or entity behind this movement to coordinate things, so how does it happen and how do they continue to function? That baffles me.
Why can't love and stuff overlap? Since when did it have to be one or the other?
@ Mickey
Very simple but overlooked answer. There are many different beliefs in this movement but their is one overall uniting entity, Rage.
It was the same with the original Tea Party, if you think about it.
The same with the protests overseas.
It's a volatile but important emotional tool programmed into the human mind. It's how humans have most successfully brought about "change" (depending on point of view of course) throughout history. Social tension and problems boil over and humanity clenses itself (Again depending on point of view).
Mickey: There is no single person or entity behind this movement to coordinate things, so how does it happen and how do they continue to function?
Sure there is the DNC, unions, Soros and every other liberal group out there. They are pulling the strings here. The OWS squatters don't realize they're being manipulated and used for Obama's re-election campaign.
I agree with that that is why we limit the gifts to three. If it was good enough for Jesus it is good enough for the kids:<) I just wish the grandparents would respect it. they buy the kids way too much crap.
soaz ---- very true ---- anyone who believes there is no person or organizating behind these protesters must still believe in the tooth fairy also.
what a bunch of nuts
Well I guess the country isn't as bad off as we thought it was. We can just keep stuffing the pockets of the rich and not whine when we have to bail the big banks out again. And the 1% are right about one thing "WE ARE STUPID".
radical moderate and soazDan,
"Very simple but overlooked answer. There are many different beliefs in this movement but their is one overall uniting entity, Rage."
I agree, but I mean like who tells them where to congregate and how long to stay there and which activities to engage in? This movement is in cities all across the United States as well as in other countries. I know "soazDan" says, "Sure there is the DNC, unions, Soros and every other liberal group out there." But that's an awful lot of people to coordinate. I just don't see how they can do it.
I give love AND stuff. Not too much stuff, but stuff all the same. I am not telling my son, niece and nephews that all they're getting for Christmas this year is "love". Yeah, right. Merry Christmas.
But we stopped with the gift exchange among the adults in our family years ago, which actually makes for a much nicer holiday season. Less hectic and stressful, not spending nearly as much money and we don't end up with a bunch of stuff we really didn't need or want. What I started doing recently, because I love to cook and bake, is making gifts from the kitchen for my friends and family. Candy, baked goods, preserves, spiced nuts etc. People really appreciate it, it doesn't cost that much and it lets people know you cared enough to put some time and effort into making somehting delicious for them.
There is something to be said for honesty. The first step in recovery is admitting there is a problem. If you really prefer things to love, though, I feel pretty sorry for you.
Not a judgement, just my feeling on the subject.
And the Tea Party is organized and funded by the RNC, the Koch Brothers, Norquist, Army and Wall Street.
The tea party spitters don't realize they're being manipulated and used and ultimately Obama's re-election will be assured.
Occupy, you kinda sealed your destiny by picking that name.
rednawt: you state that the "tea party spitters (not sure what you mean by "spitters") don't realize that they're being manipulated and used..." OWS participants are supported by Obama who continue to pit the rich against the poor...he's the Manipulator General.
tothestupid..
I guess Im just one of the "stupid" people, stupid enough to get up and go to work eack day, for over 25 years, stupid enough to save money, not spend it because I have have it, just when I have to... stupid enough to pay taxes to support a bunch of nitwits that think I am supporting the 1% when actually a bigger chunk of my paycheck goes to support a bunch of people that can't, or won't work, or spend their time "occupying".
I am GLAD we live in a Capitalist society.... with idiots like "occupiers" it just free's up more opportunities for people who want to go out and work, succeed, and move forward.
the radical moderate, maybe that sign was an advertisement for Russian Mail Order Brides.
I mean, it is not like we were able to see the back of it or anything.
The OWS peeps will be the 1st ones pissing and moaning about lack of gifts for themselves on Christmas Day.
Occupy is not anti-stuff. Occupy is anti-paying-for-stuff.
Spartan love and material items do overlap but you wont find it in the front section of toys are us, they have a secret room, but watch out for this guy with initials N,L. he thinks every time a person makes a purchase they have to give him money and he don't even work their.
Radical, you can hardly compare the wall street and tea party protesters. The wall street people are pretty much protesting to protest and honestly, they are in the wrong place. They should be in Washington DC protesting their greed and corruption. If ask 10 wall street protesters, you get 10 different answers. The tea party did not have people getting raped, robbed, or assaulted. Where wall street has had it happen and some protesters actually have been told by organizers not to say anything. The tea party did not shut down one business trying to make a living. The tea party did not deficate or urinate in any of their sites or storeowners steps. The wall street people have and came pretty close to shutting down businesses in the area, since no one would come to their store. The tea party was not infuriated, they had organized and pretty much peaceful protests.
Uhmmm ... I would advise putting myself between the Black Friday mob and the stores they are trying to get into ...
Those people are dangerous!
Advise against, I mean ... heh.
What ar buch of fools you commenters are. It's EVEN WORSE THAN WE THOUGHT !!!!!
It's 99.9%
I initially supported the 'Occupy' idea of freedom of speech but the disorganization and continually changing focus of this 'movement' makes it impossible to determine a central purpose. If they maintained a central purpose it would be easy to understand. Quite frankly the group(s) are becoming less of a movement and more of an annoyance.
Back then the message was clear. These days they just a bunch of annoying anarchists.
I totally agree with you. I thought the movement was to get corporate influence out of government and that I still support whole heartedly. when this began I was going to my local OWS protests on the regular but this is morphing into something entirely different. I am not anti-corporation or anti-consumerism, I just wanted a fair playing field for all.
Their message has not changed, never did. The propaganda machine has always tried to say there no message here. You my Friend are the propaganda machine.
How then, does protesting Black Friday do anything positive?
What is the message? What does the OWS movement want? What has to happen to make them stop protesting?
From an e-mail explaining Occupy to some of its detractors:
"Occupy isn't about banksters it's about justice. Occupy is not aligned with any political party and has been very clear about not being so. It's about fundamental change; a paradigm shift in how we might govern ourselves; how people might directly exercise their political power to create a world that is more just and more humane."
What's so hard to understand about wanting to free our government from corporate interference and return government to the people, for the people? If you want to be a corporate slave, by all means, help yourself. But you should at least respect the fact that other people disagree with that, and refuse to recognize that corporations are entitled to enjoy the same rights as individual citizens do. Corporations are NOT people and do NOT have Constitutionally protected rights.
I guess you'll never figure it out.
Once again, that's got nothing to do with protesting Black Friday. While their goal is noble, their means are annoying, irrelevant, and plain stupid.
thanks flbikerchick- though I usually take groups mission statements with a grain of salt, the funny thing is, the OWS's mission statement is almost verbatim of the Libertarians, so in a round about way they are aligned with a political party whether they know it or not.
Ok, so fundamental change? Do you understand that the statement refers to democratic socialism? Is this the goal? If it is, then the OWS group better get used to being outside because it's never going to happen. It was tried in the hippy movement in the 60s and 70s and it didn't work. Now those hippies are in congress and it still wont happen..
But are they really flbikerchick? I'm thinking not. It is funny they concentrate on corporations, yet, they totally ignore the fact that Unions are equally influencing govt., both on the Federal and State levels. They are against the 1%, yet the 1% who are actors are also ignored. Oh, but wait, actors belong to Unions, that's what must be giving them a pass with OWS. If CEO's join a Union, will that give them a pass too? Look at the bigger picture and what you get is the Unions and the far right are herding these sheeple around for their benefit. Disrupting Black Friday sales just makes them a nusiance. It is not their job to keep Americans from pursuing their life.
bikerchick ---- that is all well and fine, but when the protesters activities interfere with my rights, then there is a problem. ----- i protested back about 40 years ago, but not in such a way that interfered with the lives of others. ---- we all have rights, but those rights are limited by how they affect those around us who might not agree with our point of view.
To have a general goal is great. But to get results you need focus and a more defined goal. you want money out of government you want to kill people making 1.9 million or more, or put them in jail, or end their cooperation's, or tax them more, or tax what they have in the bank, or force them to hire more people. wow this is interesting goals. here are some more. Stop all forecloses, for give all debt, legalize marijuana, and do I need to go on? You have thousands of people going in different directions when if you focusedit you get things done. That is what they mean they have no goals everyone in the movement wants a different thing.
The occupy scum are angry with anyone not suffering in today's economic climate - or not suffering enough. Nothing more, nothing less.
ronpal, ....The protesters of 40 years ago did constantly interfere with the rights of others, I remember when they blocked the streets and freeways in downtown Seattle and shoved dump trucks and backhoes in a ditch at the U OF Washington, not to mention the bombs they planted at federal buildings around the country..........The protesters of 40 years ago were a lot more aggressive than the OWS bunch. Your just upset because OWS caused you to missed out on the latest video game sale.
And Occupy has done a fine job in identifying problems. But then again that is not difficult. In fact it is annoying how they have identified the obvious.
What Occupy hasn't done is
Identify solutions
Take ANY blame, which they should, like all of us. They feel they are victims. Stop crying.
They whine with their hands out. The criticize the wealth, which creates all the jobs, and then wants more tax money from them to pay off their debt and pay for their I phones. I am tired of them.
They have cost this country millions, they have upset people, hurt businesses, made public places unsanitary, committed crimes, etc. End Occupy Wall Street Now. Hold up a sign in front of your house, pass out fliers. Get rid of them. That is free speech by the way.
ellis ---- yes, there were some protesters who did that --- but i was not one of them --- the most effective form of protests against vietnam was the huge rallies, and those did not interfere with anyone's rights. ----- i'll say it again, when your form of protest interferes with the rights of others to conduct their daily activities, then you are saying your rights are more important, and that is not so.
Such protests will get worse. The protests in 1930's were like little riots. That will start happening. Righting now people are butt hurt for being annoyed while they spend money, that they probably don't have and will be late on their car payment, cell phone bill, over drawn on their checkbook, and may pay rent late. Then call these people and complain they have a late fee and a reconnect fee. LOL!
People are like little children. OWer's you can't change them. It's pointless. The entire thing has to collapse to the point they don't have any credit and any money to buy anything. And it will get there, if things don't change. Then they'll be more annoying than you, that's when these people, spoiled to the core, will go out and do what many did in the 30's, start burning buildings.
Enjoy irresponsible behavior and f'ing mine and the newest generation, along with the future generation. You really ruined something that should have taken at least 300 years to ruin, in only a few generations-- 60 years. WOW! You should all be proud of yourselves. LOL! Go shop now piggy, harvesting time is coming and you better be big and hoinky.
Jeremy OWS are the little children....time for them to grow up!
The consumer becomes the consumed. Reminds me of the poem by Lewis Caroll The Walrus and the Carpenter. You can google the poem if you wish to read it.
The Occupy protesters are only hurting themselves by the Black Friday complaints. It can be accurately said that most retailers make their profits for the year by these special sales. If they to not make profits, they could possibly lay people off or in the worst case scenario close their business. The protesters jeopardize not only the companies but their fellow Americans and possibly their own ability to obtain and maintain employment.Â
I might add that their protests are becoming so loose and "all over the map", that as a movement they have become irrevalent and a thorn in the side of the "folks".
What they should be doing is trying to keep prices at Black Friday levels. At least THAT is similar to their original message.
I would think that the Occupy movement should start using the tactics of a flash mob where they use cell phones to coordinate surprise "of the moment" protests. Hope that they stay around.
Ahh. pro-criminal huh?
Since when is exercising your First Amendment right a criminal act?
Since the right-wing started disagreeing with everyone that isn't.
Yes I am pro criminal I voted Republican (actually a tea party candidate) here in Texas. I was hoping for better property tax reform you see. I thought that they would support that but you know what????? It seems that they (the Republicans and Rick Perry) did NOTHING regarding capping the property value increase that the appraisal district could raise you home value on. (The value increase results in a tax bill increase). Over 2 REPUBLICAN primaries they had a referendum on capping the rate of increase from 10 percent to 5 percent (voted 98 percent in favor of this). What happened? We got sex legalisation. I guess taxes and sex both have the letter x in them and the Tea party being obsessed with sex spent all their time on these issues. No property tax reform-because (as much as I disagree with him -Glen Beck) Republicans love taxes too (only not for the rich but for the middle class). The McMansion next door to my old small house got a reduction last year that was 65 percent of my total home value! And this year the house sold for 1.7 Million and is on the tax books for about 1.1 Million. Oh but Mister Mean if you had a McMansion your value would be this....So lets just go ahead and set it to that value and give that McMansiion owner a break because in reality he really can't afford that house and need you to pay for his tax bills. WHAT A BUNCH OF RIGHT WING CRAP! It is time for those who make the big bucks to stop carping and whining and pay their fair share of taxes and stop expecting other to pay for theirs.
I was referring to flash mobs as criminals. You need to vote for democrats then mistermean. We all know how they are for lower taxes and smaller government...
It's not. Squatting, making a mess and disrupting the lives of others is not protected by the Constitution.
Mister
You are in a envious position, while property values across the country are in the tank, yours seem to be going up. How ever your neighbor did not fair so well, since most taxes are based on 50% of appraised values your neighbor was appraised at 2.2mil so he lost $500,000 off the appraised value.
I love it....they are pissing more and more people off. This Occupy movement is just like the Vietnam War protestors. All dumb ass.es.
I love how the pussy liberals on this page collapse posts because they can't deal with a disagreeing comment. Oh, and reality.
Libbys are true cowards with big mouths.
Is Occupy being distracted from their original main message? The average American can understand the problem with the inequality of the distribution of wealth. Does the average American want to stop shopping?
Yes, and no. Occupy is nothing like what they used to be. All they've done recently is alienate themselves from the rest of us.
I guess being an "average American", making an average wage, I can understand why some people are wealthier than me, and why some are not. If I wanted more, I would have gone to college less, or picked a different profession. If I wanted less, I would have done less. I accomplished what I set out to do, I have no problem with people being wealthier than I am, and I do not feel sorry for alot of people who have less.
Sometimes wealth gets distributed if you get off your a$$ and work for it. If you want something for nothing, go across the border to the South, change your name to have 4 different names, then come back across. WHO is to blame for that distribution. NOT the 1%rs, try the Federal Government.
Occupy that!.
The anarchists want to destroy the US middle class, bankrupt these stores and millions of people will be out of work! The Occupiers have now become domestic terrorists threatening middle class America. They should be jailed and deported. Let them live in a socialist society - send them to China where they will have their way.
Actually, they'd just be arrested in China.
They're definitely not doing the right thing though. Why target stores when they're selling at affordable prices?
The lost irony of that statement is where do you think all the Black friday money made will end up? Or better stated who made all the stuff you bought on black Friday? Sending them to China is not punishment, thats were all the money is!
Canada socialist, Chinas communist.
China's government may be Communist, but their economy is much more capitalist.
stylist760
Canada socialist, Chinas communist.
STYLIST = Paranoid ignorant.
NO you would just disappear. that is what they do with trouble makers. If you start a religion you go to jail/disappear because your an enemie of the state.
Wow, the point went over so many heads. The problem with places like Wal-mart, is that it destroyed places like mom and pop shops, then forces people to work for them, and rely on them. Where people used to make a decent living having their own stores, now they struggle while working for some retail giant, who destroyed their livelihoods to begin with.
OK, so go work for Mom and Pop, who cares? I have worked for several Moms and Pops in my life, who paid me minimum wage, 1 day off a week, no paid sick leave or vacation, no benefits, and their products were overpriced, stale crap. I have also been Pop with my own business. Having to deal with pinheads like you on a a regular basis wanting to be paid for doing nothing, while I was working 60 hours a week for an average income just wasn't my version of the good life. If the Mom and Pop dream (translated: illusion) appeals to you then go shop there and work for them or open your own store, nothing stopping you at all. I will keep my well-paid corporate job with benefits and 6 weeks of vacation, retirement plan,my boat, my two nice cars, my 55"plasma TV's, my vacation home and laugh at you.
Mom and pop stores are artifacts of the past, except for some specialty niches, and they are not a bit cost effective because they can't buy in volume
Spartan, don't try to rationalize it. They don't even have a clue what they're doing.
Wow, look at the people making such a difference. They are a joke. Go home, search for jobs as long as it takes to get one and then go be productive.
The avarice of the masses is without limit. Even though the "system" is not meeting their needs it fuels their short sighted wants. The party will end when the oil runs out. Think of those that come after you and the life they will be forced to live as the result of your actions today.
Blame corruption for that. There's nothing wrong with shopping. Environmental (and other) concerns should be directed at companies and governmental regulations.
I don't care what happens after I am gone. They can figure it all out just like I have had to do.
These morons don't know what to do with themselves.
Try taking a bath and getting a job.
Another Fox News toadie has arrived....
That would require a sense of responsibility....
Letusreason and Steven: Repeating what Gingrich says doesn't say much for you intellect.
Try to have a thought of your own.
Did Newt say that too? Well, he's right on target. The OWS crowd have demonstrated that all they can do is whine.
That would reqire soap. But, if they don't want to support the 1%, they won't buy it.
I was most disgusted by the fact that people will go spend hours standing in the cold with their children in tow at Best Buy, but won't spend a few minutes to get off the couch and go vote. We had terrible voter turnout in our local elections a few weeks ago, yet people manage to find the time to sit in line for hours at the big box store...priorities are so messed up in this country....
Too many people just can't be bothered to vote. Then again, it doesn't help that candidates are often too similar. Still no reason to not vote though.
Vote?.... If voting could change anything it would be illegal. We get to choose between tweedle de or tweedle dum, neither of them serve the people but rather the big businesses who made the donations to put them in office.
Trinity -it could also be that the voters feel it doesnt make a difference- they have become apathetic towards our political system. I always vote- the next election - i dont care who they are, or what they stand for - im simply voting against whoever is in office. My reason is because of exactly that - i have become completely apathetic towards our political system. We have somehow become ruled by the fringes, middle of the road politics is now bad for some reason. I personally see absolutley no difference between liberals and conservatives. They are all nutbags as far as im concerned - so does it really matter who i vote for?
Seriously, what difference does voting make? These politicians dont have our interests in mind - they care only about themselves and those that supply them with money. Why should anyone NOT go out and look out for themselves - i.e. go to black friday to save money - noone else is looking out for their best interests.
I fully agree that there are plenty of people who are too lazy to vote- but like i said i cant blame them. You have a country that is hurting bad, and our politicans are too busy thumping their chests and blaming each other to be bothered to help them out. I dont give a rats behind about your conservative/liberal values. I dont give a rats behind about what this politican thinks the other politican is doing that is wrong. At the end of the day, they are there to get things done - i dont care about their idealology- suck it up - and do it. My family and friends have to compromise and do things we dont necessarily think is great because we dont have the luxury to do nothing because i dont like it. You do what you have to and keep moving on. The politicians cant be bothered- why should the people be bothered to go vote for quality congress people like that? Again - the fringes have come to somehow rule - liberal or conservative - they dont care about you, me or anyone else- just their blind allegiance to their own side.
The only difference between a Liberal and a Conservative is what evil they deem im too stupid to protect myself from, so they wish to do it for me.
The MSNBC news barons are determined to keep these troublemakers in the spotlight, despite the overwhelming popular dis-interest in these complainers.
Oooh! "more than a dozen" protesters!
What a joke.
Considering the number of posts on here trying to claim the OWS movement is irrelevant, I'd say your estimate of "overwhelming" disinterest is a little off the mark.
Only for the politically-minded. Mainstream America thinks the OWS is a circus side-show.
Kind of like the Tea Party?
Nah, I think most are just reading blogging nonsense to see how many numb nuts respond.
OWS m0rons needs to GTF out of the way and let the 100% that wanna spend money...spend money! Take your tents, signs, backpacks, feces & other issues you have to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. You ppl are now hurting the cause you say you are protesting about.
"Give love not stuff". Noble sentiment. But love won't get people jobs (except maybe the maternity ward) , won't reduce the debt, won't spur manufacturing. Occupy Space-Waste Oxygen is being used - and they don't even realize it.
Are you saying that people should spend money they don't have to help fuel the economy? If you think that way then lots of luck. If our economy is based on that then we really do need radical changes.....and fast.
actually, that is why this country will ultimately collapse ---- "greed" and "envy" are what our economy is based on. ---- without the average person's continual desire for the possession of material objects, our economy would collapse ---- and eventually will, because the current trend is not sustainable indefinitely.
ronpal...I've known that for about 30 years. I kept thinking....how long can this go on?
considering the way people are acting, and becoming increasingly polarized, i'm guessing not much longer. ---- probably, the %^&* will really hit the fan in 2014, when they try to enforce obamacare.
see spending money that was lent to you by the banksters to fuel the economy is just what the banksters ordered. So now that all that money was spent and now cant be paid back the banksters and making the govt/taxpayers pay it all back 1 trillion times over. So they won again, 24% interest and insurance to pay them when you cant pay it back. WoW. Wake up sheeple, baa baaa baaa.
Too bad most of these people have no clue about economics. Would they recommend a tariff on all foreign goods? Would they be willing to pay more for their cell phones, computers, clothes etc.
Let me ask all of you bleeding liberals this; How would the Chinese people survive if children were not allowed to work? They are not forced to work. They are not captured on slave ships and put in chains and then sold to companies. No, they work because it is their only option for survival. I cut lawns, raked leaves and worked part time in gas stations as a kid for very little money. Should that be against the law?
Yes, the child workers in China are not treated well, but they work because they need to. China is a emerging economy. Remember, we had sweat shops here in the US for many years. We still hire illegals here in this country to do the crappy work and pay under the table to avoid taxes, workers comp etc.
Go ahead and close down Wal Mart and all of the big chain stores and see what happens? They should be protesting in DC for term limits. That would solve 99% of all of our problems. 2 terms and then back to the private sector with no retirement or free medical for the rest of their lives. Politics should not be a career. In fact, I would rather it would be called a service job.
My thoughts exactly, though I'm no conservative.
You think children working in factories is a necessary evil? Then you point out things like sweat shops in our past and the hiring of illegal aliens as justification for what China is doing. Wow! I guess 2 wrongs do make a right to your logic.
We do need to impose term limits on Congress but that is certainly not going to solve 99% of our problems. Respect for each others opinions would go a long way towards solving the cancer that is affecting our people. When two people disagree they should discuss their differences like civilized people not call each other idiots. By the way, I guess you're an economist based on your statement that "these" people have no clue about economics but that seems to be the way these days. Go for the throat and degrade and humiliate anyone who doesn't agree with you.
Don't even go to the bleeding heart liberal thing with me. I am neither a bleeding heart nor a liberal.
Ken McCoy
Kind of like the thirties right? When some one bashes you in your head with that rock so they can steal enough to eat for themselves and perhaps their family, because that's the only work available,you'll be content that they are working for that money? Survival trumps morals. Especially condescending right wing nut platitudes.
See China is 50 years behind us. Just look at USA 50yrs ago and then you will see China. Sheeple should read more. Quit watching TV pleasse
Are you refuting to the fact that China controls all the business? Us Government never owned a business in the 1960's Or the fact that all the stuff that china builds lasts years. the US it lasted 50 years verses 10 years. China is building hole city's that no one lives in I have not seen a city that the US built to house no one. Or how about putting people in jail for starting a church which makes you an enemy of the state and are trying to over throw the Government. The US has not done that in over 130 years. No china is far more behind then you think.
All of the "Occupy" movements are no longer connected. They are just protestors and the "Occupy" term should be dropped. They are all over the place protesting different things. Some protest overseas things, some large businesses. "Occupy" as a singular movement has long since disappeared
I actually like the "give love not stuff" slogan, but I do not like the hypocrisy of the OWS movement. They condemn walmart for the working conditions of the people who make their stuff, but do they condemn apple? Nope, even though Apple products are made by people working double shifts in miserable conditions.
The whole point is to exploit local laws in a way that still attracts workers. And yeah, if you protest Walmart you need to protest Apple as well.
My wife and I actually went out to gawk at all the people (or sheeple) standing in loooong lines for hours. One was in a wheel chair. Another was using crutches. Amazing. (in a sad way)
Just for the hell of it, we actually ventured into a Walmart -- just to look at the spectacle up close. Inside, people were waiting in lines that wrapped beyond the far rear perimeters of the store, just to pay. (some in the self-check-out lines) --And for what? --just to save a few dollars on same Chinese junk that will be even cheaper next week, or cheaper yet after Christmas...
Many were coughing and sniffling. One sounded like she had whooping cough! --perhaps from standing out in the cold for hours... So now, she'll have to pay $100s to go see a doctor. (and parhaps miss work)
--We left, not sure if some might have had the flu.
The Corporate CEOs must be reclining in their leather chairs, puffing on their Cuban cigars, while saying "Eeexxxcellent..." --like The Simpson's Mr. Burns.
Poor people. What a sad state of affairs we live in....
Great post.
Walmart is the worst. They provide jobs to unskilled workers, respond with food and clothing in national emergencies, donate to charities ,and allow charities to collect money for the less fortunate on their proprties,offer affordable items for those who are on severe budgets. And all the other stores that are open on Black Friday, how dare they provide jobs, pay taxes and sell items for profit..OWS you have points at times , but as a whole you make morons look like Einstein.
Oh, yeah, like all the smaller businesses used to do before Wal-Mart drove them out of business and forced their employees to accept minimum-wage, no-benefits part time positions. Of course, back then, most goods were made here, before Wal-Mart force manufacturers overseas by insisting on price levels for their goods (re Rubbermaid, et al).
sometimes you need to look at the larger picture --- when walmart moved into the community where my folks live, it did negatively impact some smaller businesses, but then those businesses gradually shifted their focus to mdse that walmart doesn't carry, and are now doing just fine. --- in the meantime, the overall economic effect, and benefit to older citizens has been positive, providing employment for people who had previously been living on welfare.
bikerchick - You're an idiot. "Mom & Pop" shops only offer minimun wage. Paid time off and benefits are a corperate thing and always have been. Have you ever had a "Ma and Pa" job and got paid time off?? Hell, I managed a local pizza shop at 25 cents above minimun wage and was threatened to be fired for needing my birthday off. Now I work for a corperate restaraunt, paid time off, matching 401k retirement, free health coverage, cheap dental and vision. All b/c I busted my ass to get past minimun wage.
Minimun wage is simply that, minimun wage. It is there for those who choose to do minimun. As a employer, I see it every single day. Should I hand out raises b/c the economy is bad?? Nope. The economy has zip to do with raises (with the exception of inflation). Raises come from visually seeing someone doing a good job and who knows what a job is: A job. Not a hang out, not a place to go after getting stoned, not a place to collect a paycheck. If someone doesn't understand that concept, don't let someone else employ you. Start your own employment. But as long as you work for someone else, you are a part of their agenda.
My brother left a Mom and Pop store because he was paid 5.15 an hour to bake so he worked at the hard rock and made 15 an hour with about 20 hours a week over time(a time and a half).
Shop local With your neighborhood shops, try to buy American.
unless you need a new tv, since there are no american companies for those.
Do you suppose they will be happy when no one has a job?
The OWS is either incredibly naive or stupid. They are nothing more than a distraction to Obama's failure with the economy and a sideshow to help get him re-elected. They'll disappear just like Code Pink did after Obama got elected.
Hmmm... a whole dozen protestors.... well, that demonstrates the strength of their 'movement', doesn't it?
How does stopping people from buying what they want hurt Wall street it just stops people from enjoying what money they do have. I mean what else is money for except tp spend.
Because Wal Mart is the worst example of retail marketing and employee relations in the US. That's why. Want to buy there, go ahead, but realize what it is, how it does business and how it treats it's employees. Are you supporting Wal Mart's behavior. You bet!
To the naked eye Wal Mart just looks like a business that sells low end merch for a fair price. On closer inspection you find out they are the number one example of corporate America's exploitation of its workers.
Nobody is forcing people to work there.
This company employees over 1 million people. The WS Mob wants to do away with this compnay. End result - 1 million more un-employed. How "bright" the Mob is! So dumb, they do not even realize they are being used by Obama, the DNC, Communist Party, the Unions, Soros, etc.
Don't forget on top of the 1 million people that are employed by Walmart, how many other jobs were created by the 1 million spending their money. You are 100 percent right about the wall street people being used by the democrats. The pathetic thing is that they WS protesters should be in Washington DC and not in the other cities. Also, where is the outrage when we find out that our politicians are legally conducting insider trading and making money off of the market? The other pathetic thing is that both sides are doing this, but the democrats are villainizing wall street and still doing this.