E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSS
Antonio Calanni / AP
A woman walks past the window of a clothes store announcing 50% discounts in downtown Milan. Italy's borrowing rates spiked to a new euro high as pressure mounted on Premier Silvio Berlusconi to resign.
The financial fires raging in Europe threatened to consume Italy Monday, as investors fled the country’s debt, driving up borrowing costs and pressuring Premier Silvio Berlusconi to resign. Unless those fires can be contained, the U.S. and the rest of the world will soon feel the heat.
After multiple failed attempts by Berlusconi’s government to reform Italy’s debt-heavy budget and after weekend reports that the government may fall, the financial markets pummeled Italian bonds Monday morning, sending interest rates approaching 7 percent. At those rates, the cost of periodically rolling over Italy’s $2.6 trillion in outstanding debt would quickly swamp its already strained budget.
Nearly two years after similar broken reform promises by Greece, the epicenter of the current financial crisis, the widening turmoil poses a much bigger threat.
"Italy has much more systemic implications than Greece, its debt is larger than the rest of the periphery put together, it is too big to fail, too big to save,” Thanos Vamvakidis, a financial market analyst at Bank of America Merrill Lynch. “The markets don’t believe Berlusconi at this point.”
To cope with losses expected on Greek debt, European officials are in talks to expand a $320 billion bailout fund to shore up European banks or buy Greek bonds outright. Some analysts have warned that European banks don’t have enough capital to withstand losses on their holdings of Greek debt. A default by Italy, the world’s third largest issuer of government debt behind the U.S. and Japan, would dwarf those losses and swamp even an expanded bailout fund.
The financial crisis sweeping Europe has already taken an economic toll, pushing the euro zone to the brink of recession. Spending cuts by debt-laden governments have put the brakes on growth. Now, weakening consumer and business confidence in the once-strong “core” economies of Germany and France are slowing growth.
On Monday, Germany reported a sharp 2.7 percent contraction in industrial production from the month before, far worse than analysts had been expecting. The report follows other economic indicators showing that the European economy is near, or now entering, a recession.
“The folks who think that the U.S. economy or the financial markets are immune and will simply ride out the storm are dreaming in Technicolor,” Gluskin Sheff chief economist David Rosenberg said Monday.
While U.S. officials insist that American banks are reasonably well insulated from the crisis, the U.S. and European economies are the two largest, most closely interrelated in the world. So are the U.S. and European financial systems.
Roughly half of top U.S. banks surveyed by the Federal Reserve reported having made loans or extending credit to European banks. The findings from a quarterly lending poll released Monday show that, though American banks have relatively small direct exposure to Greek and Italian debt, the financial turmoil in Europe poses a significant overall risk to the U.S. banking system,
Though U.S. banks and other financial institutions are believed to be relatively better positioned against possible debt defaults than their European counterparts, the collapse of MF Global last weekend highlighted the potential impact of making too many bad bets on European sovereign debt.
Less is known about a form of bond default insurance known as credit default swaps written to backstop the risk of a bond issuer not being able to make payments. U.S. banks have written about $400 billion in CDS contracts on European sovereign debt, according to the Bank for International Settlements. Those payouts would be triggered if Greece or Italy defaults. Because financial institutions are not required to report their CDS holdings, little is known about which banks or investment firms are on the hook, and for how much.
Italian leaders now face the same downward spiral that forced Greece, Ireland and Portugal to seek bailouts from their stronger eurozone counterparts. The yield on Italy's 10-year bonds soared Monday to 6.58 percent, the highest since the euro was established in 1999. That raises the cost of issuing fresh debt, further straining the governments’ already stretched budget.
As the Greek debt crisis has demonstrated, Italian officials face limited options in coping with that spiral. Deep budget cuts have sent Greece’s economy in reverse and cut into tax revenues, forcing the government to cut spending further. The contracting economy also makes it harder to comply with European conditions for aid that are tied to the ratio of total debt to gross domestic product. As GDP shrinks, that number rises.
Aside from the immediate impact on the U.S., the widening European debt debacle may be a harbinger of what lies ahead for politicians in Washington. The wider issue for the governments of all developed countries is the rising cost of paying for social programs created a generation ago. From Japan to Europe to the U.S., those programs are becoming increasingly unsustainable as life expectancies continue to rise for new retirees.
“The great thing is they are getting to live longer, and it's great to live longer, but it's not free,” said Constance Hunter, chief economist at Aladdin Capital Holdings. “But everybody wants it to be free. They want to still get all of the benefits and promises they had when the life expectancy was 10 or 15 years shorter. So this problem is not going to go away unless we figure out how to address it at its core.”
With the debt crisis threatening Italy and Berlusconi's status up in the air, what's next for the market? Louise Cooper, BGC Partners, discusses.
Leave a Comment:
MF GLOBAL HIRES KPMG WARNING WARNING (THE FOX IS IN THE HEN HOUSE)
KPMG KPMG ACCOUNTING FRAUD TAX FRAUD TAX SHELTER
FRAUD KPMG FRAUD KPMG TAX SHELTER TAX SHELTER
ORWELL IS LAUGHING HIS ASS OFF
Misprision, the crime of not reporting a crime, a favorite of the U.S. Government and all the lying rats like KPMG and Skadden Arps and now add MF Global to the mix.
One of the biggest fraudsters of all time KPMG has somehow convinced an obviously corrupted bankruptcy court to pay it tens of millions in fees to unwind the second largest Bankruptcy in history (MF Global run by the scumbag Corizine). When I get some time I will do a little background check and see what kind of incestuous relationship exists between the courts, Corizine and KPMG (the thieves just keep on getting richer).
Beware MF Global employees and KPMGers, you all know you cheated and will continue to cheat, if KPMG gets caught cheating you likewise must know it will hire a Skadden Arps, a law firm of liars, thieves and purveyors of death, to destroy your lives and the lives of your family members, and believe me, Skadden Arps does KPMG’s dirty work very well.
The joke is on all of you, the evidence conclusively shows KPMG is a firm of liars, thieves and purveyor of death just like its mouthpiece Skadden Arps.
MF Global you guys are a joke and you know, check out what KPMG does to its very own employees and clients when it has to if it even gets a hint the Government is coming, your life will be over and you will pray to your god every day for death for the rest of your miserable lives all thanks to the lies KPMG will tell and your family members will die at the hands of all the KPMG lies.
Let me be absolutely clear, nothing in this post is untrue and no one is being threatened, the only thing any of you dopes have to fear is KPMG itself (and the U.S. Government when KPMG gets done lying to the Feds about you).
KPMG’s fraud is so egregious I would be extremely afraid if I worked at KPMG on MF Global because everyone knows for a fact, if something goes wrong, like the DOJ or Congress gets pissed about all the special purpose vehicles used by MF Global or most of KPMG’s other large clients like Wells Fargo and Deutsche Bank to hide billions of losses or the myriad of fraudulent tax shelters used by Wells Fargo and Deutsche Bank, KPMG will not only turn you over to the U.S. Government to be butt raped for life and expose your family to the potential of yours or their suicide due to the lies KPMG will invariably tell about you, KPMG will bend over backwards to help the DOJ destroy your life.
KPMGers your lives will be completely and forever destroyed, so bad that you will crave death every day just so you do not have to remember the horrors inflicted on you by the U.S. Government due to the massive lies the likes of Peter Morrison from Skadden Arps will tell about you on behalf of KPMG.
The likes of Dennis Malloy, Michael Hamersley, Joseph Loonan, fat pig Bob Bennett of Skadden Arps, will lie to the DOJ so much about the fraud perpetrated at MF Global (which no doubt will continue regardless of who approved the fraud at KPMG because that is what KPMG does and history always repeats ).
KPMGers working on MF, KPMG will put you in prison via the DOJ to be butt raped by violent angry ……… who hate white collar dudes (yes, the DOJ will put you in a room that is 10 by 10 with 23 angry ………………. who will rape you nonstop for days (while the guards laugh and watch or worse)). Of course, the DOJ does this so you will turn into a lying rat like Dennis Malloy, Michael Hamersley, Joseph Loonan….and the DOJ will tell you the butt raping will stop if you lie about your fellow KPMGers who have helped you perpetrate the fraud at MF Global.
The lies told by KPMG may be so humiliating and disgusting your family members may commit suicide like Jane did (Japanese style, leaving a bloody disgusting mess for your other family members to find).
For sure this will happen to you KPMGers.
It will go something like this, Congress will get so pissed about all the fraud being perpetrated at the Banks it will need some heads. The DOJ will go to KPMG and say give us some heads or else. KPMG will hire a firm comprised of liars and thieves who only care about making millions in fees off the mess, Skadden Arps.
Skadden will put one of their partners like Peter Morrison on the case since he is just like fat pig Bob Bennett who has already done this for KPMG, fat pig Bob Bennett is one of the greatest liars of our time, Peter Morrison is just like fat pig Bob Bennett, a very good liar. If or when KPMG hires Peter Morrison, he will lie to the DOJ so much your life and your families (geez, the DOJ will likely threaten your relatives and send agents with guns to their houses based on how good a liar Peter Morrison is) will forever be destroyed.
Oh well, don’t say I did not warn you, just remember when KPMG hires someone like Peter Morrison from Skadden Arps to tell massive lies for KPMG (a specialty of Peter Morrison), it will be off for a life of butt raping, bankruptcy and destruction of your family, all paid for by KPMG.
Let me be absolutely clear, nothing in this post is untrue and no one is being threatened, the only thing any of you dopes have to fear is KPMG itself (and the U.S. Government when KPMG gets done lying to the Feds about you).
WOW
*mouth hanging open* Just wow...wow...I mean Gary you got it right...WOW. I do not even know how to respond to the post. Wow...my butt just clenched up. I feel violated just from reading the post.
Wow.
Same as Gary, WOW.
Yes, like this was not expected, ...eventually. But why tell us little individuals about all this? (I guess we do need to know.) But why present it in such a way as though the world is looking at any of us little people for some kind of answer?
Beware though when the little guy stands up and says he will handle all the problems. Seriously!
Mike G: some "little guy" will stand up soon and tell us how he will make all the problems go away; and all the kings and presidents and premiers will run after him like he is god, and all their people will run after their wonderful elected leaders like mindless masses. Wait, it will happen. Then what?
Hey for all of you smart ass's that dispute what I say, the fact is your math does not work because you cannot answer the question of what the cia's budget is. You also ignore the fact that the coke whore bush gave the banks 16 TRILLION before TARP. You also ignore the fact that 60 BILLION DOLLARS has been stolen by defense contractors since 9/11 and you still cannot answer my question about how much at&t was given by the coke whore to spy on us. SS and medicare are funded by payroll taxes and most of the money was stolen by the coke whore. Also, your "leader", the coke whore started 2 wars and had no idea how he was going to pay for them. Typical of a coke whore. Now for the jerk off that likes to brag about our war technology,I spit in your face. Lets talk about EVERY battle system built since the Bradley Fighting vehicle fiasco. Pull your head out of your ass.
This "war against terror" cost bin laden $400,000.00. At that amount of money we pay Haliburton for 400 gallons of gas in afgahnistan. That is the war criminal cheney's company and how do you defend this? Jackass.
ok, i'm not the most literate person when it comes to world finance's. so, in an attempt to educate myself, will someone explain how the entire world, metaphorically speaking, be broke. if you spend $100 on one share. someone gets that $100. the stock drops to $1 a share. someone lost $99 bucks, but the other guy still has $100. so, is the world bank the on with all this money that all these countries keep borrowing from? what happens when the entire 'free' world declares bankruptcy?
...must be a former KPMG employee...
@roger
Those holding the super majority of the money rule. While the super majority of the world's population revolt, and seek to chop the small ruling classes head's off.
Thats what this is about reading from the begining the truth comes out towards the end so now we know, we have all been lied to and taken for granted since we started working paying taxes and paying into our retirement and the governments have been taking this money spending it on them selves giving them selves raises, paying for needlessness and they couldn't keep their greedy little hands off the piggy bank and now we are all going to suffer, were all going to starv to death because of the corruption and deceit our elected officials have placed all of us in jeopardy of becoming poor, broke, and starving because we have all been lied to for years. But we knew it, we have said it here in the O'L USA that S/S ( not Nazi) is not going to pay us and it will be broke. The Governments don't care, as long as they get their Money of thousands of thousands of Euro's or Dollars a Month or year while the rest of us work 12 hours a day thinking when I retire I will have enough to live on but no, we will not have enough and now were all doomed, I hope for a war, I hope for the mass destruction of Governments and big banks. the little people I don't know what that means but we are the ones that allowed this to happen 2012 will be a interesting year, I hope the little people win, if not we will all be placed back to the stone age.
@roger
To continue what @jeremy stated...The wealthy bankers have setup a world extortion system where if they have made bad investments, they can threaten everyone with catastrophe if taxpayers don't pay for their losses. 100% for the bad US mortgages and it looks like 50% for the Greek sovereign debt. Of course they keep all the money if their aren't problems. And obviously this kind of system doesn't provide much incentive for them to be careful in lending money.
Credit default swaps are the financial tools used to this.
So I wonder? How long will it take all of the Earthly governments to decide how long you and I can live. But they can live for as long as they want cause we, the working class are paying for all of their mistakes and their rich live style.. There has to be a better way to live. We all know the answer, but are we strong enough to make the change.. Who ever you call GOD may he help us all..
I have had the priviledge to meet many people from many walks of life. 99.9% of those people are good people. They are just trying to take care of their families. Make their kids life just alittle better than their's. Now is that a crime??
this just makes me want to get out my little fiddle...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVm6DqMXaSE
Well Washington is already burning and Obama in playing his fiddle...
America is already feeling the effects. Can anyone tell me how much our libya adventure cost the taxpayer?? How much did obama spend to fly the flag of al qaeda in bengazi??
nobsartist, that's no way to start a comment.
You're suspended for a day for violating #1 of the Code of Honor.
TruthIsToldHere banned, rereg of multiple accounter YourTruth4u.
Sounds like someone has a personal grudge against KPMG. Did this person get caught cooking the books on behalf of some client and get hung out to dry by their employer, KPMG. If an employer asks you to do something that you know is wrong you have two choices, you either do what they ask and accept the consequences when the fraud/wrong doing is exposed or you refuse and get fired or quit and start looking for a new job. If you take the first option you have no one to blame when you get caught but yourself. You knew what you were doing was illegal and did it anyway. In this day and age can not expect the company to cover for you and admit they forced you to commit the crime, not that this is really any excuse anyway. I had an employer order me to do something that violated federal law, they wanted me to to tell my non-exempt employees that they would only get straight time for overtime instead of the legally required time and a half. I refused, which resulted in my employment with the company ending. However, my reputation stayed intact and when I explained to my next prospective employer what happened, the fact that they had fired me in no way affected my getting a new job, which I did with a raise to boot. My former employer, on the other hand, got sued when they went through with this scheme and wound up losing all their government contracts and went out of business. If you knowingly do something illegal it is not a valid justification that your boss told you to do it.
When is our government going to admit that the way the financial system is set up represents a direct threat to our national security? So if some distant European country screws up it hurts us, really? None of this bothers any of you neo-cons or liberals?
"the financial markets pummeled Italian bonds Monday morning, sending interest rates approaching 7 percent. At those rates, the cost of periodically rolling over Italy’s $2.6 trillion in outstanding debt would quickly swamp its already strained budget."
Italy's GDP is about $2.245 Trillion, making their Debt about 115% of GDP.
The Debt in the U.S. ($14.973 Trillion) is now over 100% of GDP, and current estimates are that our Debt will exceed 116% of GDP within 2 years.
If our borrowing costs went up to 7%, the interest alone on our CURRENT Debt would be $1.05 Trillion per year, compared with an average of $227 Billion per year under Clinton and $199 Billion per year under Bush (Yes, it was lower for Bush).
That EXTRA $800 Billion per year under Obama would amount to over $8 TRILLION extra interest over 10 years.
Congratulations on that "Change we can believe in" that you voted for.
Sorry, but we all need a good laugh these days;
I cried reading this post
I must say that I had thought until the news broke of MF Global demise that MF Global was one of the few true Investment banks who had made it through this financial melt down on the merits of it investing and trading abilities, not the insider thievery and corrupted money games all the other firms capitulated from.
Well I was wrong; the depth of the reach of greed is even deeper than my jaded expectations …
Wall Street Bankers are all traitors and crooks unless proven not to be.
kpmgkilledjaneforfun sounds like a broker who is about to be framed by MF Global, and has decided not to be their fall guy. Good luck, here is where the upper killers trade each other off for the witness protection program. That won’t stop them from throwing you the broker in the way of anyone who lost in this as these crooks scuttle under their rocks.
Credit Default Swaps = Whatever Bank/Government is holding the bag gets completely screwed when the money stops coming in.
Sort of like a Banks on Banks version of the airplane ride, the last one that got suckered into buying the “security” pays all the other banks losses, it is written in a way that even the greediest of bankers couldn’t understand it, someone in their bank made huge money in a back door deal to sell it to them, and they bought it to keep from looking stupid.
The greedier screwing the greedy.
This is how it works:
Brokers are paid a percentage of the funds they raise from investors, once the investor invests his money the broker will not receive any more pay unless he brings in new money, as in another client, or his existing client base sends funds a second time.
The broker is usually the only one the investors ever speak to, and he has the least power in the company with no meaningful input as to where the money goes after it is received by the company and does not have any access to his client’s accounts.
The broker hopes his client does well so that he may recommend further investments, but in reality has no way to influence this other than to do as much diligence as possible to recommend a legitimate investment, that could still fail legitimately.
The investors still see the broker as who they sent the money to no matter how well this is explained if/when they loose their money.
Investors make money on the profitability of the company to balance all of this and pay a handsome share price. Risky business even when everything is completely legitimate.
Killers, the upper investment bank management all the way through the traders all make percentage money when the trader’s win their trades/(Wall Street bets), and receive salaries, and guaranteed severance packages commonly known as Golden parachutes.
Here is where the train comes off the rails:
Killers make a huge percentage off of the winning trades and or investments and it is guaranteed in their contract with the company, but these same men do not have to pay back the company from their salaries or previous win percentages when the traders make loosing trades or loosing investments.
Make money when you win, pay nothing when you loose.
You ask who in their right mind would give these men a contract like that.
And the answerer is they give it to themselves.
The Killers started the company, gave it a name, incorporated it and thereby gave it legitimacy, put some money in it, brought in some of their golf buddies and made sure they got their money for referrals no matter what, found brokers to sell it, and that’s the way it works.
If you will recall when the US government was about to bail out the banks there was a very large stink about paying all these men their huge commissions even though their banks failed, that’s what happens when you have the Killers contract.
So if you are positioned right as a Killer you could keep trading day in and day out … win some, loose some, still making huge commissions until you finally gambled away all the investors funds away.
Then exit with your guaranteed severance as well, and all salaries due as the company become’s insolvent with all the investors money gone, and never go to jail.
Then of course start a new bank with a new name and run the same game again.
Italy and Greece’s problems are a direct result of their bankers trading losses just like the US bankers, when they fail someone’s bank/government is going to have to pay the Credit Default attached to their losses … since this is brand new territory nobody knows what is going to happen … that’s why the US Government opted to bail out the larger banks rather than see, and that’s why Europe tried to bail out the morons in Greece, nobody has ever had to face the Credit Default Swaps, in the 1930’s they did not exist.
I do not believe this will be the catastrophe it is being touted to be.
It will be a long series of lawyers, in a long series of court battles to decide who owes whom what, then another long series of lawyers negotiating amounts, followed by another long series of bankruptcy’s finally leading to nobody actually paying any body anything except the lawyers fee’s ending about 10 years from start to finish, or until it becomes so boring that it is swept under the rug.
Let these Banks fail and send them to the corner so that they'll stop ripping off the public, when they get their greedy books in order maybe they will return to the table, mean while if were not getting ripped off we will spend..
Greek government crisis triggers new round of budget cuts in Europe
By Christoph Dreier
8 November 2011
As the EU presses for a new government in Greece to prepare further austerity measures, it is becoming clear that the government crisis and the attacks on the working class in Greece were the prelude to a new round of social cuts throughout Europe.
The same script is being used in all the other European countries. After giving money to bail out the banks, governments take it back from the people through austerity measures. As this leads to continued collapse in workers’ living standards and thus in consumer demand, further economic downturns, and therefore a further decline in tax revenues, the ruling class then demands more cuts. The rating agencies help fuel this vicious cycle by downgrading individual countries’ debts.
After Portugal announced further austerity measures and Italy agreed on massive social cuts and its observation by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) last week, Ireland and France followed suit, announcing further cuts in their already-truncated budgets….
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/nov2011/budg-n08.shtml
Does anybody really think you can vote the USA out of this mess? Type in the search words; Obama politics same as Bush. That should keep you busy for a few weeks.
Voting Dem or Rep is self serving - maybe a third party could move us in a new direction, but I bet they would have a rash of "accidents" before they ever got off the ground.
Heck, us just commenting on this stuff would land you an FBI file in the 1970's - just check out the file they had on George Carlin. Claiming your pride in America and spouting freedom all the while you are being manipulated is....well to avoid the ban bug, I'll just let you finish my line of thought...lol.
Sure hope they legalize weed - I could use an escape. They pee test us chronic pain sufferers, so if you want to keep getting the pain meds, you don't dare take something that actually would help you. Yep; us old pot smokers know all about suppression - welcome to our world...lmao.
I'll be the first to admit that I don't have the financial savvy to weigh in on the all the answers or even what all the problems were/are BUT I do know asinine when I see/hear it. And to rob the very people who need it the most of Social Security, Medicare and even Medicaid is asinine. When a society quits being responsible to and for ALL of it's people we become a pack of animals ripping the bone out of the mouths of the weakest. I, for one, don't want to live like that! Our government is here to serve the very people, all the people, that make it possible to have a government of elected officials. They are failing miserably.
It seems to me that it was the Republican party who spouted "accountability" with every breath they took. Until that accountability entailed cleaning up the oil spills their lords had caused, answering the tough question and bringing to court for trial the people in high places that caused our financial melt down among other things. Look at all the "buzz" words the Republicans used to use...have you noticed that as we become smarter to the happenings of the world their rhetoric isn't including them anymore?
I, too, believe in accountability. I want to see the people in high places who profited to such an egregious degree that they chose to turn a blind eye held responsible. And I don't care if they are Republican OR Democrat. When and how is THAT going to happen? Government...OUR government needs to be purged. Which elected official has the balls to start that rolling?
Goldman Sachs isn't the only financial institution involved but it's a start. AND why does Obama have numerous GS employees employed? Why did any of our past presidents employ them?
LetMeExplain
Very interesting post!
There have been a few things that have been bothering me since the PIIGS crisis hit the airwaves.
Greece obfuscated their books with the equivalent of SIVs and CDSs (basically what a number of U.S. financial companies did) to mask their debt levels until they were found out. Some very prominent financial institutions helped them do this. Now, you can point at the Greek politicians and say that they should not have done any of this but, on the other hand, they probably would not have had the option of such behavior if these investment banks did not provide a "solution".
Italy has had high debt levels for two decades and no one really cared it seems until the past 2 years. What has changed? Hysteria basically. It seems highly unlikely any of the major economies are "bankrupt". For that to happen, total assets have to worth less than total debt. GDP is a country's rough equivalent of "income" and taxes are the "income" for governments but these are not the same as "assets". It seems neither is broke per se but the hysteria has driven interest rates up so that increases the chance of a cash squeeze - where they cannot pay both their interest and principal. If the financial crisis that started in the private economy had not occurred and caused the public debts to spike and created the sort of volatility that exists in the credit markets today, this squeeze would not have any remote chance of happening.
So, the best way out of this mess? Calm down. When everyone is trying to get to the door, it is highly likely no one gets out the door. And, nix the bad actors in the private markets that started this fire. That alone would give most investors have more confidence in the sanctity of the markets.
This is not to say that there are not long-term economic and demographics challenges but those are problems to be solved with steady changes over 20 years (not sudden, destructive changes over 2 years).
Burn, baby! Burn!
If Rome burns, U.S. will feel the heat and Obama will be blamed for burning Rome down...dont believe me?
It's come to point where we are literally witnessing the "how high can I jump thing". If you are dumb enough to NOT know what I am talking about...look yourself in the mirror first....
Headline should read "As European Socialism crumbles, liberal Americans desire bigger government to ease worry at home"
With a retirement age of 57 and a lifespan of 80.7---they enter the job market at age 25, (on average), what did they expect. We Liberals just want the money to stop being urinated away on a military that spends as much as the rest of the world combined. Chop that DoD budget in half righties or we will emulate The Roman Empire and The USSR.
We the Conservatives just want the money to stop being urinated away on progressive socialist entitlement programs that account for 2/3rds of the Federal budget. Chop those programs in half Lefties or we will emulate The Roman Empire and the USSR.
You are lying again about what social programs cost. You must be part of the treasonist, terrorist, NAZI loving republiCON party. Sorry pal but your party will cease to exist after Obama is re-elected in a landslide and all of the jackasses that you support are removed from office.
Show me the math potty mouth.
@Sandtrich
The defense budget happens to be less than half the cost of our social programs. Our military operates all around the world with the most professional Army the world has ever seen. Our military also tests and feilds highly advanced weapons of war in the name of Americas freedom... all on that budget. Out of that budget we pay our soldiers to put themselves in harms way so your opinion can count. It seems the military accomplishes alot on very little, compared to free hand outs that accomplish nothing but to enslave the masses.
Maybe you should take a tip from the professionals.
Next hollow emergency.
@NobsArtist
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Social Security and Medicare/Medicade Tax income 2010- $865 B
Social Security and Medicare /Medicade Spending 2010- $1,494 B
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Federal Tax income 2010- $2,162 B
Total Federal spending 2010- $3,456 B
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's leave Medicare/Medicade and SS alone. Lets cut other places.
Let's cut Defense spending by half, from $689 B to $329 B
Let's cut Discretionary spending from $660 B to $0 B
Were still $305 B short of balancing our budget.
---------------------------------------------------------------
That's from the 2010 U.S. fiscal budget report. Sorry, you lose.
Social Security actually was paying for itself and had accumulated ar least 2.3 trillion in excess funds as of fiscal year 2008. If the excess had actually been invested in bonds, we would now have around 2.9 trillion. Fiscal year 2009 was the first year that receits were surpassed by outlays. Medicare has not paid for itself in years, though this could be solved by more stingent accountability and increasing the tax for medicare by .25%. We also need to stop the payroll tax break of 2%. It is hurting us more than helping. The largest item coming out of general revenues is Medicaid. Next is the military budget. We could reduce Medicaid costs if we just set up more Urgent Cares around the country. To many people use the Emergency Rooms as their primary care facility, which costs considerably more than an Urgent Care visit.
We definitely need to reduce our military budget. Since fiscal year 1983, we have spent more on our military each year then the rest of the world combined, which has totalled over 15 trillion dollars up to fiscal year 2010, though this also includes the costs of wars. This is a stagering sum. We can no longer afford to maintain the American Empire, which, along with Medicaid expenditures, is bankrupting our country. It is not our responsibility to be the worlds policeman, nor to insure resource and market availability for large corporations. A large military expenditure was one of the reasons that brought down the Roman, Spanish, and British Empires. Let us not follow in their path. Let China take over that responsbilty and see how long they last.
Nobsartist You live in a dream world. Obama is not going to be re- elected. If so you can kiss our country goodbye. Lets see, between Social security and Medicare lets see what that costs our country? You do the math. Apparently you have absolutley no Idea what you are talking about troll.
Isn’t it interesting how easily the whole world is brought to its knees? Living beyond our means, that’s what it is. And where were the “fiscal” watch dogs to stop this spending madness? Is this the way the new World Order is delivering on peoples’ (limitless) expectations? And when are we going to see the politicians and institutions responsible for this “suffocating debt-heavy” circumstance, brought to account?
SabotAndHeat - Capitalism has failed as well - for the small guy. It is very successful for the Aristocracy.
That's a lie, the military is high but is dwarfed by all the entitlements, present and future. If we emulate the Roman Empire and USSR it will be because of collapsing of our own central planning weight.
We have over $100 trillion in unfunded liabilities, and not one dime of that was generated by the military. Even democrats are talking about cutting entitlements and warning of cutting too much from the military so even they are beginning to face reality. I suggest you do the same.
China could care less if anyone commited genocide, they do it to their own country folk. World police I think not.
@bearbryant
Two thirds of the federal budget is used on socialist entitlement programs....? unless you are talking about military spending in that two thirds you been drinking the Fox News mind control kool-aid. Military spending accounts for the vast majority of our spending (roughly 80% depending on what year you look at)... but the way our politicians act... you wouldn't know that if you got all your political information from the idiot box.
BearBryant. I will agree to leave the military complex alone IF those darn Bush taxes disappear and not just for the rich, FOR ALL, SS taxes are not capped at a certain income, and capital gains are sent to 25%. To me, all this small gov't BS means less civil liberties, as for the last few years, the US (and both parties are at fault) are starting to institute capital controls (SEE FATCA, NEW IRS LAW) when one tries to internationalize ones assets because people, even free market liberals (WE DO EXIST) like me know the US is screwed. However I would like to give you a brief history lesson. 1/20/69 to 1/20/09, republicans held the presidency for 28 of 40 years, AND one of the ONLY 2 DEMOCRATS, and only 2 term one in this time left the budget with a surplus with a chance to lower the deficit, only to be ruined by 6 years of SOLID REPUBLICAN RULE. It was Cheney himself that said deficits do not matter. I am glad I am in a place that is growing with minimal to no debt, and still actually a free country, which of course the US IS NOT!!!!
Oh, Rome will burn - again! It can't be stopped. And all the rest of the world will be caught standing, looking and weeping. [That is what will be really bad!]
about that @#2.11 It will not continue to be. And even they will go running after some small guy (who they will call 'god') one of these days, soon.
Robert you are correct, they do not want to be the worlds policeman, but their growing industry wants access to resources, but I essentially agree with you. As for you p111, you need to look up various .gov sites and you will see the answers for yourself. SS would have been able to pay fiscal year 2009 shortcomings from interst alone. Fiscal year 2010 would have been the first year we would have had to take from the principle of our saved SS funds. Also, I pointed out how Medicare could be saved, but I do need to amend the statement. The additional .25% would need to apply to all income and nor stop at 106,000. As for other entitlements as you call them, Medicaid is the largest and does need to be addressed, as does other welfare payments(housing assistance, cash payments, and food stamps), as well as several others that are really small compared to these. If we had more jobs, that would help. We could change the tax code to make that happen. If we changed the corporate tax code to a 25% rate with no deductions, except for companies that employed at least 70% of their workforce within the contiguous US which would receive tax credits for health insurance(75-95%) depending on the size of the company, as well as credits for capital improvements that created more jobs(100%). These would be the only credits available and no company could reduce their tax burden below 5%. Companies that did not employ at least 70% within the US would have a flat 25% rate, period. I think you would see job growth within this country explode. This would also cut the need for Medicaid since compnaies would supply it just to get the credit. Consequently, our Welfare roles would be reduced as would Medicaid. As for our military expenditures, I stand by what I posted earlier. Read some history and get back to me. Same for MireVo3, entitlements are growing and something needs to be done about them.
Oh the burning can be stopped if not for the corruption of our political leaders on both sides of the aisle.
@SabotAndHeat
Your figures are correct however your comparisons are misleading... you got official figures GJ for a conservative... but you took the TOTAL amount EVER spent on medicare and social security and compared to an annual (year long) cost of military to fit your delusion... the net deficits vrs income of these programs for 2010 were 30 billion for medicare and 67 billion for social security. This pales comparison to 689 billion we spend in military that brings in no income.
Sorry rational comparison of facts win.
@MireV03 Go look at your liberal government's own budget publications before you make stupid remarks here!
er.. some folks need to read history a bit better. Rome died because its leaders decided to start paying off the "barbarians". Sure a lot of other factors involved, social issues, internal. But in the end one of the biggest reasons Rome fell is because They stopped paying their soldiers, lost their military might, so when the 'Barbarians' invaded as they often did. Rome no loner had the military might to face them. Their once mighty army, that builty and defended Rome.. Was unable to withstand the assaults anymore.
so, when the 'Barbarians' made it to rome and threatened to attack it.. The Leaders.. Paid them off. (apeasement) they gave the invaders all kinds of loot, gold, jewels ect.
Worked great! the Invaders took their loot and went home! Everyone was happy. Of corse that didn't work out to well for them in the long run. the invaders, started thinking 'Hey, we're low on loot. Lets attack Rome, they'll give us a pay out to make us go away!'
finaly after a time, Rome just didn't have anymore to give. they couldn't appease the invaders so they, the invaders sacked the city. a few such sieges, a bout of plague or two and rome as the ancients knew it was gone.
Odd how folks over look that.
Sabot heat
That's what makes our budget so rediculous, you can cut and still have an annual deficit. It's completely insane. We still would have to raise taxes and cut things by 50% like DOD. Our deficit is out of control. I've played with in on excel (2010 budget) and I've gotten to like 74 billion deficit from 1.389 current annual deficit. But that's 50% cuts on DOD, raising individual income and coprorate tax and social tax by like 20% each. It's insane.
And by the way, we can't necessarily drop social security and medicare. Otherwise we'd have to drop revenue taxes for those same items, and that would reduce revenues byt 40% or $865 billion of total 2.16 billion revenue based on 2010. Estimates for 2011 social security revenues will bring in 900 billion.
And if you end all medicaid and medicare and social security payments. And end the funding of them by the medicare and social security taxes, and leave everything else alone in the budget, you still have a 531.30 Billion annual budget deficit.
And that would increase even more following years, as millions would be put on the streets. Business would see a huge drop in demand for basic goods. Riots would occur. Crime would soar. And eventually the entire US would go in flames.
If a business or an individual had a budget problem like the US, they'd be declaring Chapter 13 or even 7 bankruptcy. And starting fresh. That's how insane this budget of ours has gotten. How'd they let it get this insane is beyond anyone.
Actually I got spending down from 3.551 tillion to 2.768 trillion and had to raise income from 2.162 trillion to 2.695 trillion by increasing individual income tax by 30% and social security/medicare by 25% and corpoate taxes by 25%. Still 72.48 budget deficit. You could rase excise taxes 100% and still have 5.48 billion deficit.
It's maddness.
If Rome is about to burn I hope the US DoD budget gets doubled for 2012 cause we might need it. Social and economic trouble have often been channeled into military conflicts. even though I don't wish for that we might not be able to prevent it. safety first!
Thlix, you make some good points there but I submit there was another, possibly more important, reason why Rome fell. They started using more and more slaves to do the work. Of course, it costs a lot less to use Slave labor than to pay a free-man to work for you. After a while regular Romans couldn't find work. Sound familiar? That's what's happening here. Corporations are shipping a lot of jobs overseas. More and more phone work is being handled by foreigners. Regular U.S. citizens can't find work. Soon people don't have money to spend, tax revenues go down. The Romans couldn't pay their soldiers. We've already come to the point here where we can't pay our workers and so more teachers are let go, more police, etc. As we cut back on costs, the economy contracts. The vicious cycle continues.
@MireV03
How exactly does social programs make income? If you argue some tertiary effect to the free hand out I can just retort with...
Military bases spur local business=income
Private corportations work in coordination with the military to support operations=income
Defense contractors develop weapons programs which provide jobs=income
etc...
Neither the military or social programs are designed to spur the economy. Our military at least has a purpose to protect America. Social programs enslave.
Also, that was 2010 budget....tax income and spending (not a highest total) for 2010. The comparison is accurate and you need to know the facts before accusing me of rigging numbers. Besides if what you said was true... why would we be borrowing from China?
You can find these numbers right on government websites. Oh by the way... the same .gov sites also have end of year assestments written by the branch head (in pdf.). Read them sometime.
@About that
Awww, someone with a computer, internet and a home is crying "Capitalism has failed". Pfff. Whiners.
Why is it dead? Because you spent all your money and don't have a job that supports your spending habits? That's called "Consumer regret" not "Capitalism has failed".
Our Grandparents and great Grandparents went through the Great Depression which was 4 times as bad as this recession...what are you crying about?
@ JoeCal - I'll have to disagree to a limited extent, slavery and its effects which you named, were.. contributing factors in Rome's decline. it was a very Important factor, but.. not More important then the decline of the Legions.
Now, one can say that the rise of slavery, the decline of the lower classes and the opulence of the wealthy of Rome, lead to the.. upper elites.. lack of understanding of their situation? Of the realities of life? to their being disconnected from reality? Which in turn lead to their, distaste for the Legions. (dirty soldiers, with their marching and shoutting)
like i said, there were a lot of factors. but once the keystone, the corner stone, foundation stone of rome, the Legions, Rome was doomed. no turning back, full speed ahead toward destruction.
@Sabot heat, Thlix
When you are over-budget and are having problems earning more, you will have to cut back spending somewhere (every little bit helps). IMHO, our defense spending is way beyond what the country needs and I disagree that our foreign policy of the past decade has had much success. The only times the U.S. made good allies is when we helped people (think Marshall Plan). Not when we were bombing them for some ideological nonsense or for economic gain or stuck our noses into something we didn't understand. The only thing that our policies of the past decade has done is create another generation of angry orphans with a vendetta; a payout we will reap in another 20-30 years (sort of like how we're reaping now 1979 Iran, 1983 Lebanon and 1989 Afghanistan that were also perpetrated by the very same group of policy clowns).
Firstly I whole hartedly agree, when your over spending, cuts have to be made. All across the board, one can not keep spending like 2 times what one makes for very long.
and Defense spending is going to have to be cut back as well. but so will EVERYTHING else. simple fact, the government has been spending way more then it makes for far to long.
my.. history of the fall of Rome was to point out to folks useing it as an example or excuse.. and to them who seem to think just cutting the military budget will solve all the issues.
- defense spending is actualy one of the few areas that reasonable government spending is a GOOD thing. by and large it has many secandary, and teritariy effects. boosting the local ecomany of areas with bases, air fields and the like. (soldiers need stuff, enterianment and while they get many things from the base, by and large they get more from the local stores, vendors and what not.
Then you've got the compaines that build the tanks, planes, guns, bullets, uniforms, shoes, hair clippers, you'd be amazed at how quickly the military goes through such things. seems soldiers are really rough on their toys.
then you've got the effects of military research, spending money to come up with new ways to kill people, HEAL people, detect people, find information, protect information, blow up cities, keep cities from being blowen up, better, faster planes, tanks, cars ect. all of which the military spends huge amounts of money on.. and while these techs might not directly benfit the civilian population, they can and do often lead to cool new toys for us civilians.
all of that is above and beyond the very core reason for their existance - Protect the Nation.
While the Defense budget is the largest single "Expense" (social spending beats it but only by adding all the varsous areas togeather.) Its also the area of greatest benfit to the Nation as a whole. (see above. )
then rember, this cool I-net stuff was a military Idea.. the GPS system.. another cool military idea. Satalites, first a military toy... jets? Yea Defense spending has given us a lot of new ways to kill, maim and injure folks, but its also given us more ways to heal, help and advance society as a whole.
so yea.. Defense spending will have to face cuts as well.. just just rember if you try cutting back to much... you can sudently find you've cut your foot off...
As for your.. policy comments. that to my mind is a diffrent issue. less to do with how much to spend on the military, but how its being used. and trust me.. we'd likely argue for months.. over that. (my issue is more the.. wimping out in the middle of a war. this namby pamby 'ooo they are shooting at us from a mosque/temple/holy site? oh.. we're not ALLOWED to blow it up. BS! blow it up and any building with in 5 miles that happens to LOOK like it too. Just to drive the point home - attack us and you WILL die. but noooo.. we have to be understanding. lol.
They can't/won't/don't track military spending where it concerns private contractors - look at all the unaccounted money that disappeared when paying Blackwater types in cash - not one cent collected in taxes.
@Thlix and Larry
I agree... defense budgets are not immune from a cut and possibly should be trimmed. However, it would take deleting two defense budgets worth of spending to even start getting close to Social program costs.
Social programs are tuned to spend on the specific needs of individuals who can easily just rely on that income to survive.
The military is for Americas general defense and only anarchists and un-realists will scream for its dismantling (or budget cuts that would render it impotent).
Because financial institutions are not required to report their CDS holdings, little is known about which banks or investment firms are on the hook, and for how much.
Great, so basically we don't know how deep we're in and how bad this could be.
Fan freaking tastic.
Can you say financial meltdown, part deux ?
And these POS bankers still don't want to have derivatives, swaps and hedges regulated.
Oh it's going to be bad. The US financial markets have invested HEAVILY in the European Bond Market AND (wait it gets better) have invested (hedged their bets) that the investments are going to fail (derivative)... Get your money out of the stock market if you have any in it, it is nothing but a ponzi scheme!
Thank the same people that passed the law that taxes people that make OVER $250,000.00 to $1 MILLION dollars an additonal $5000.00. Our enemy is every nazi loving republiCON in office.
Generally speaking: Somewhere in the last 40 or so years the world's wealthiest countries have lost the values, ideas and morals that made them so wonderful and what was once financially secured. Our parents/grandparents generation saw the end of WWII and suffered through the Korean War. And they fought as their parents had to offer and give any and everything possible to their children. Some valued and went to college to gain access to a well educated trade of certification (which meant good salaries should they never have to go hungry). Others did the manual stuff and became trademen/people in thier own right and so they started small buisnesses and earned a good living. At this time, a (secure job) home car and children was the American Dream
Our parents and grandparents before us worked hard to give to and provide for us. Over the years they began to invest the results of their hard work for retirement and a comfortable niche to sit. And we the Boomers and those after reveled in all that our parents could offer---the security of a house, car, kids and a few extra bucks for more stuff). Our kids were given all we could give them, herein the US, overseas In Italy, Greece, Sweden ---Many Prospered for a several decades.
And then many many people around the world began to want more and more. It wasn't enough at the end of the year that all corporate bills were paid, employees each got a bonues, you take your family on a fabulous vacation and you had some profit in the bank. But the more they got the more they wanted and, and so corps began to over build, over invest and basically overindulge---life was good and then it came crashing down on 911 and all the money so invested to gain more more more got pulled oout from under many mealthy countries. Depts and loans could no longer be paid, families didn;t just loose the dream they lost everything but themselves.
And until we characters here on Mother Earth begin to lean on oursleves rather than slilently threaten and fight, and until recall the values that got us here then there can not be financial healing through out the world.
If we are so sure the financial industry is going to crap out, instead of bitching about it, invest your money in a reverse ETF. There are 1x, 2x and 3x leveraged.
Look up symbols SEF, SKF and FAZ respectfully.
"Our enemy is every nazi loving republiCON in office."
That's a lie. Liberals are closet fascists, they want to control everything and everyone. Conservatives are, by definition, anti fascist becuse they are for individual freedom and LIMITED central government.
Who wants to control what you eat, what you drink, what you wear, where you live, what you can do with your property, what your kids learn, what you drive, etc.? Liberals.
Nazi's were for a large overreaching government, gun control, wanted to control everyone, hated Jews, controlled the means of production, etc. just like the modern democrat party.
Nice try though.
"Oh it's going to be bad. The US financial markets have invested HEAVILY in the European Bond Market AND (wait it gets better) have invested (hedged their bets) that the investments are going to fail (derivative)... Get your money out of the stock market if you have any in it, it is nothing but a ponzi scheme!"
Throws the assumption that the US banks won't be affected that much right out the window. We are screwed if we do and screwed if we don't.
Comon MSNBC.....Greece hasn't cleared their streets yet, and now you have an article about ITALY's financial woes ?
Italy's $ 2,600,000,000,000 in outstanding debt is PALE in comparison to the U.S. debt.
And, Mr. Bernanke refuses to disclosure the WHAT, WHERE, WHEN, and to WHOM $ 2,000,000,000,000 American taxpayer dollars were transferred.
Great.....I want to know how much Goldman Sachs, and the rest of the crooks on Wall Street, and the Federal Reserve have "invested" into these CDS holdings.
If we are so sure the financial industry is going to crap out, instead of bitching about it, invest your money in a reverse ETF. There are 1x, 2x and 3x leveraged.
That's not a bad idea actually. Unlike short selling (which has unlimited loss potential) you can only lose your investment.
Go to international bank of settlements... With some study you can find which ones and how much exposure... 7.5 trillion combined EU by US banks only... Pretty penny... Those banks stocks have been getting hammered all year.... like BofA.... Now you know why Buffet had to jump in and loan 5 billion a couple months ago...
Fun ride huh? Ready to get off before it gets really wild? RON PAUL 2012
Dirivatives are the weapon of mass destruction..... By all means, jump on and make your share..... Its ok.. never hurt Enron.... What a mess. Wake up.... We need a back up plan and the only guy whos trying to give you one is Ron Paul.
Be careful though. Watch them for a while. You can lose money two or three times faster than normal. And they don't always behave rationally. And markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent. Seriously, look before you mouse-click.
Rome IS burning...right here at home.
well we all know what to do about it...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVm6DqMXaSE
Watch carefully America. This is the path that our current crop of politicians have set us on. If we do not change course we will be the source of heat as well as America fails and burns so to speak
AMEN!
I like your post but I don't think it went far enough. Its not just the "current crop of politicians." It has been decades of abuse including the current politicians. We have to stop fighting amongst ourselves else our nation too will surely fall. The right leaning folks need to stop blame the left, and vice versa. Start holding your "party" officials accountable.
Current crop of politicians? The only ones that are serious about the spending are the Republicans. The democrats only want to tax more to make up for the spending. This is exactly what happened to Italy. Taxing more but no cutting until lately. Many more countries are lining up for the same problem. Then we have obama lecturing these countries on how to be fiscally responsible. How pathetic. We are on the same path as the rest if we do not change our ways. This is why our credit rating was lowered.
Mark,
I've always try to be balanced in my life if possible. All cutting is not the answer. All taxing is not the answer. This problem is far too complex to sum it up to such simple terms. The real answer needs to be a combination of many things.
As an example, if you were to lose say 25% per month out of your salary, and this is assuming you do not have financial freedom, you would need to cut that much from your spending to keep a balanced budget which hopefully includes some kind of savings.
Where would the cuts come from? Would you cut any one particular category? What if 25% of cuts put you too far and you couldn't feed your family appropriately? Would go get a second job delivering pizza's or consulting?
You see, there is no one magic bullet for this one. The wealth distribution is too great and the separation between the have's and have not's is too large. The cuts need to be gradual but consistent so people know what's coming and can plan for them and the taxation needs to change to that everyone pays their share all the while knowing those that are financially secure can pay more than those that aren't.
When the government starts cutting Social Security to the elderly and they can't afford to live on their own, they will come to you asking for a place to stay (meaning your parents or parents of those that are still working). I don't think we really want that. What I mean is, can most people, in general, tolerate their family for a day let alone live with them permanently?
I don't see any other way than gradual changes to cut spending while increasing the tax income to the gov't. A balanced budget would be nice, but we have far more than just $15T in national debt. We have over $116T in unfunded liabilities. see www.usdebtclock.org
Correct Mark, that and the corrupt government Unions that received unsustainable benefits. (Greece and others, ) GOVERNMENT UNIONS should be outlawed!
I like your post, Tiggle. As a conservative, I do think that Republicans are a little too hard-lined about no tax increases. I mean, if you just give in to taxing the millionaires a little extra, you give the Dems something by basically giving them nothing. However, I think the real issue is tax increases have never been paired with spending cuts...only the promise of cuts later. The Republicans got burned on this in the 80's and are reluctant to let it happen again.
Adios!
who is we? i have no control over government or law. if i speak up, i am arrested. do not group me into the powers that be. i am just a joe shmo citizen. and so are you and everyone else saying "we" like an idiot on this msg. board
Our Rome has already burned thanks to Obama and his horrible - Abominableonomics.
UR stupid, teabag troll. Republicans bankrupted this country long before Obama came along.
That would be Obominableonomics
It is NOT Obama's fault. This table was set when he took office... YOU may all want to think twice the next time you feel a sense of nationalistic pride swelling whereby you think that going to war is going to be a good thing... It drains not only lives but money out of the markets... the rich got richer (thank you Darth Cheney) ...
Lol really? it's already iffy enough that we scapegoat obama for this country's financial woes, but now were blaming him for Europe too? The global system is starting to fail, the quicker the old plan is dropped and a new world plan is drafted, the quicker we can return to our 9-5
But not to be outdone, the libtards have added $4 tillion to the debt since Obama took office.
its george washington's fault
You do the math: Bush overspent $4.9 trillion in 8 years after starting 2 wars and bailing out banks
Obama over spent $5.2 trillion in just 4 years while continuing the status quo and then adding to it immensely.
Obama will bankrupt this country far worse than Greece and it's socialistic system.
Bingo, more2bits, only ignorant lookaid drinkers like the post below you believes otherwise. What an idiot!
Moreebits: 4 trillion of Obama's 5.2 trillion was unbudgeted debt from Bush! And you want more? Blame the voters! You!
Every time people attribute spending to President's it shows how ignorant they are. Obama doesn't spend. Bush didn't spend.
The POTUS doesn't spend money! Congress spends! If you want to see the effect of party on budgets, look at the states. There is a statistically significant difference between states with Dem led congresses and Rep led state congresses. Democratic states rank significantly worse than Republican states. In fact, the spending by Dems is so bad that even if they control ONE house of congress, those states rank significantly worse than Republican dominated congresses.
Could someone please explain clearly and rationally just how these countries have ended up in this position?
NO tax increases... NO Tax Increases... No Tax Increases....
Oh, and spend, spend, spend.
Sound familiar ?
Illegals, welfare people who are 2nd or 3rd generation on it, Medicaid and other NON paid into giveaways! No one paid into welfare like we did for SS or Medicare and then there's the "earned income tax credit" which means if you don't make enough money to pay taxes you get a check from the government (someone else's money that they EARNED and the recipient didn't.) Useless government agencies like the Dept of Education (who have they educated?), the Dept of Energy, Dept of Housing and Urban Development, USAID, PBR, PBS, The Arts,et al.
The "Occupy" folks want free college, forgiving of student loans, free housing, jobs etc. There is Nothing free. Someone has to pay for it. The rich? Money has legs and they WILL and ARE leaving the country with their money. Corporations first do not pay taxes, the purchaser of their products does (you and me). So raise corporate tax-the price of goods goes up. They are leaving and jobs are going overseas because of it.
Thefedreal governemnt needs to be cut in size and people need to be responsible for themselves. GROW UP!
"Money has legs and they WILL and ARE leaving the country with their money."
See ya. Enjoy Dubaii or whatever teabirther paradise you end up in. Paraguay? Mexico?
You morons should ask why 30 of the most profitable corporations dont pay ANY tax on profits and in most cases recieve additional money from our government. Nationalize ALL energy companies, to hell with the shareholders and FEDERALIZE ALL education.
The world apparently sucks really bad at math. Differrence between rich and poor, spend less than you make. This applies to any level of living, regardless of the amount of income.
Nobsartist. Do you actually trust the government? We are over 14 trillion in the hole. Sorry but taxing the rich aint gonna fund your utopia.
No, it is spend, spend, spend. These socialist countries have taxed more. They have raised their taxes immensely. They can no longer raise taxes. Also, entitlements. They have given it all to people, everything they wanted. Sound familar? Sounds like the path we are taking.
And they tell us to "diversify" stocks and mutual funds to include overseas holdings......why? just as bad everywhere it seems
"The great thing is they are getting to live longer, and it's great to live longer, but it's not free," said Constance Hunter, chief economist at Aladdin Capital Holdings." Now this guy is a joke it's called scare tatic's He is saying since we live so much longer the contract is no longer any good. The Government will have to kill all people at the age of 80.So what if all American investors called and ask how much of my investment do you have invested in the Euro Zone if they say more than a dollar then pull every thing you have and put it in a safe investment that does not have to do with any part of the Euro. One Our Banks have known about this Euro mess for more than 2 years and said noting Snatch the money because you can not trust these people. I just wanted to thank the Clintons for ramming Nafta down our throats. It's time the people in Europe got was coming to them. Call your investment company and ask how much of my money did you invest in gambling in the Euro market. They all knew what was going to happen the reason I say this if they can speculate on the price of OIl then they sure should have known about this mess. The only people this is going to effect is the rich people that stole the working class's money when our bubble poped. It sounds to me that OUr wall street hedge fund managers were betting again. 5 to 1 they will expect another hand out.
The working (and unemployed)-class are not living longer -- but the upper class ARE, and so they want the workers in society to take the hit so the plutocrats can pay lower taxes. We workers get fewer social benefits so that the rich, whose only benefit from the system comes from their ownership of it, can make yet more profits at our expense. But that's how the system works, as long as we sit on our arses, contented with reality TV and other intercranial drug addictions.
Vive le demondialisation! APEC Sucks! Stay out of Hawai'i!
Sorry Demlefty, Nafta was Bush Senior! Check the facts!
Sandy, NAFTA originated in 1994 during the Clinton administration.
Actually, NAFTA originated under Bush I.
The idea of NAFTA preexisted the Clinton administration but it went into effect in 1994. Blame (or praise) can be shared between Bush I and Clinton. Clinton could have killed it but did not.
Yes, I agree. Clinton should have vetoed it, but it just shows that the Dems and Repubs are actually two sides of the same coin. A repub congress wrote and enacted all of the financial system bills durong the late 1990's and early 2000's, which were signed into law by Clinton and Bush. They are all crooks, and we need to overthrow the current system. I would even hazard a guess that all current and former Congress people and Presidents should be tried for treason.
soylent green is people!!!!!
Too much of anything is bad. Too much too the left or too much to the right is bad. America should take heed and become more centralist!
2.7 trillion. That's nothin we have at least 14 trillion in debt right?
America...always keeping up with Jonses, I mean Kardashians...oh bother. Onward with the death spiral...march, march, march
A lot of difference in the size of each nation.
Anything to keep the eyes off America. We're in deep s$%t but the corps & financials are doing fine until the truth comes down on them.
"Because financial institutions are not required to report their CDS holdings."
What an Insular World we Live in.
What powers we've given these Banks.
Wasn't Bank of America once the Bank of Italy ?
Maybe it's TIME to Require These institutuions to OPEN THEIR BOOKS and show us their EXPOSURE to the Credit Default options/swaps and any other FUNNY MONEY OFF their BOOKS. !!!
The social policies that are causing these EU country's to economically tank are the very ones that the Obama administration embraces and promotes. The bullet train to hell.
You are full of crap and do not know what you are talking about. Must be another one of those nazi loving republiCONs.
Lots of has to do with union and government retirement programs /entitlements. It is the people and their thirst socialist policiess that are causing this.
nobsartist, since you know so much enlightens us;
You can't blame this on Socialists... NO WAY. --Italy has been run by a Billionaire Capitalist (Berlusconi) for years -- and Greece was previously run by Conservatives who got them into this mess. France and Germany are also currently run by rich Conservatives as well...
We also endured 8 years of Bush... (jobs to China, tax-cuts for millionaires and un-funded wars.)
Time Out... I just put my last ten dollars underneath my mattress!...
What time does the soup kitchen open up?....
New world Order on its way? This is what happens when the Banks control the world. And the very few billionaires can move money with the click of a mouse. And yes they have safe places to keep your OOPS i mean their money.
It's not "on the way" joey, it's HERE, and it's been here for a long, long time. #OWS is telling us to wake up and look around for a change -- or all we'll have left is spare change.
DELAYING THE INEVITABLE- that's all this is. Europe is gonna crash and will be looking to China (or us and we'll be getting the money from China) for a bailout. We'll be next. Instead of having one or two countries go into a depression or default it will send shockwaves through the entire world. The beauty of Globalization! Bring it!
Yeah bring it so we can see the cry babies out in the streets crying how they can't afford anything, can't find jobs. NO thanks. I'm already sick of seeing their mobocratic b.s.
yeah, robert, we can't wait to see you crying in the streets . . .
Mad Hatter-1143304 you missed it it was at 7:00 am PST sorry early bird ate the worm. ;-)
Hey America, wake the heck up! What is going on in Europe is a foreshadowing of what will happen here as well, so long as we have a out of control president hell bent on turning America into some sort of Socialist utopia, like Greece, Italy or Spain. Turn off Ameircan Idol or the Biggest loser and start paying attention.
I suppose Fox news will give us the truth?
WTF,
Free, who wants free just give me back the money you have taken from me and my employers over the years and I'll figure out what to do with it!!!! These freaking people make me sick, everyone wants a free ride, no @!$%# the goverment wants a free ride and its at our expence, they took money and took money and gave it away, to countries like Pakistan, Afganastan, Iraq, so on and so on the very same people who despice is, but they sure like our moola so they can build fancy palaces and buy lots of nice Western.
So here we are, I must say that after watching events over the years maybe Pat Buchanan had the right idea and just maybe he was smarter than lots of folks give him credit for.
What'd he say -- that white people are naturally smarter than "minorities"? That's been his drivel for two decades+. His only period of pause was when he toured with Ralph Nader against NAFTA -- so even a fool is right once in a while.
No bank of america was once the bank of japan when it was owned by japneese conglomerates but i don't believe that's the case now with out furthure investigation. My mother once said that if you tell one lie you need to tell another to cover that one up and eventually you will run out of lies. With all the greed and corruption in the world, and only in our back yard. It seems to be catching up with us all and us little guys are the ones getting screwed. All i can say is what the f@#k over?
Pilot:
You're wrong. The Bank of America was founded by A. P. Gianinni in San Francisco, California as the Bank of Italy. During the 1906 earthquake, the bank made loans to Italian immigrant businessmen to help them get back on their feet.
You have your head in the sand old pilot, this is the path which the previous politicians in the white house set us up for 2 endless wars and the recession already began at the end of 2007. Get real and take responsibility. This is the result of the people who do not want to share wealth among all Americans. 1 making $113 Million in a year and others making $7.15/hr. No decent healthcare system and so on. Greed on the largest possible scale. Good luck.
Frenchy you have the head in the sand, not pilot. Italy's problem is that they gave entitlements to everyone and raised taxes to get all of this. Just like Margaret Thatcher once said, "the problem with socialism, is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money". Well, they ran out of other peoples money and tanked their economy because THE RAISED TAXES ON THEIR WEALTHY SIGNIFICANTLY. Here is what you get when you take from the workers and give to the lazy.
Folks,
Here's a great story that illustrates "Socialism" at it's finest:
An economics professor at Texas Tech said he had never failed a single student before but had, once, failed an entire class. That class had insisted that socialism worked; and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich - a great equalizer. The professor then said ok, we will have an experiment in this class on socialism.
All grades would be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade. After the first test the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. But, as the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too; so they studied little. The second test average was a D! No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around the average was an F.
The scores never increased as bickering, blame, name calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else. All failed, to their great surprise, and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great; but when government takes all the reward away; no one will try or want to succeed.
Could it be any simpler than that? AMEN!!!
Mark, that's SIMPLY a stupid view and a stupid analogy...
AGAIN: You can't blame this on Socialists... NO WAY. --Italy has been run by a Billionaire Capitalist (Berlusconi) for years -- and Greece was previously run by Conservatives who got them into this mess. France and Germany are also currently run by rich Conservatives as well...
We also endured 8 years of Bush... (jobs sent to China, tax-cuts for millionaires and un-funded wars.)
Many Wall Street insiders have made vast fortunes from trading derivatives. It is legal to trade in derivatives because those making big money from this trade have used some of the profits to corrupt the democratic system. They have bought and paid for making the derivatives legal. The rating agencies including S&P, Moody's, and Fitch have given AAA ratings to derivatives to facilitate the biggest Ponzi Scheme fraud in the history of the world. Yes, it is legal to lie, cheat and steal in the case of derivatives because the Ponzi Scheme operators are sharing their ill-gotten gains with corrupt politicians who make the laws. Legal and right are two different things. The best way to resolve the coming crisis is to first arrest and hold without bond all current and former Goldman-Sachs employees. Send them all to Gitmo for enhanced interrogation until they confess, and then keep up the enhanced interrogation until they squeal on their accomplices and then do the same thing to them.
I agree truth. I would also include all current and former members of Congress.
marxism.
the protesters in this country are the same marxists and are steering us petal to metal to the iceberg.
blind, stupid, dregs, dopers, losers, marxists.
they must be defeated. at any cost. they are the virus.
Have fun as a wage slave...
wage slave ... ha, Ricardo lives in his momma's basement and watches FOX NEWS too much. --sounds like Cartman on South Park.
ricarDOH! or just DOH!
Pedal to the metal, as in gas pedal, not flower petal [unless you're talking about putting daisies in gun barrels] [which you're obviously not, since that would indicate possession of a degree of wit]
YOU are being defeated, and it's plain to see how that makes you feel.
You are the kind of crazy mofo that wants and enjoys wallowing in ignorance. I'll wager you are a fox news fan. Or at worst a christian extremist. Wait I'll also bet you think all muslims are terrorist. But you know what its idiots like you that drag America down into the muck and slime. As soon as morons like you are gone and forgotten America may finally move forward.
Grow up or go away
pilgrim11b10
I would and most would like to see a financial accounting for aid, restitution, bail outs, rebuilding after wars the USA is obligated to and or are paying back to WW!. I know we the United States Citizens are entitled to know where our tax dollars are going. It is time to hold our government accountable and allow us who are paying these costs a voice. I've read we are still paying Germany and many other European Nations for WW11. We are paying the Koreans, Vietamese and even still pay toward the Panama Canal. Agreements are no different than labor agreements. All contracts are negotiable. Let us see who is brave enough to release this info.
The basic problem is that all of the systems are set up ass backwards. Instead of controlling the economies of countries with no money, all of the regulations should be set up to control countries that have lots of money. If countries that were making money spent it responsibly or saved it, then when they were out of money they would have something to fall back on.
Trying to punish countries that are already in position to default is like drilling holes in the bottom of a sinking boat in order to let the water out.