Please explain how the rich are keeping people poor.

Yes, we have to wait a little longer for the trickle down effect... I feel something wet on my back... you say it is raining? Hmmm... that rain smells funny...

Pragmatic: it is very simple: in order to make money, you have to take advantage of the people who work for you or buy from you. The less people on the bottom of the company make, the more money there is to give to the top 1%. You know how the money is made, don't you?

Is "the man" holding you down Max?

How do you keep poor people poorer? Easy tax them more.

The rich want to keep more of their money. So those hedgefund CEO's earn those millions by doing what?

Sorry Max, EPIC FAIL.

No one needs to be "taken advantage of" in order to generate profits. As for the "people at the bottom", a job is worth what it is worth - if there are not entry level jobs, there is no way to "enter" into the system and learn enough to be valuable. Education alone cannot do this, as practical experience and/or knowledge of the specific job/industry must be learned. Once learned, you then can advance to a job that pays more.

These are fundamentals.

On top of which, no one is stopping the hard working or the creative from starting their own business, and being successful. Millions of Americans do this every year. Some are successful, and need no help from some rich person to prosper. Nor does he/she need to take advantage of someone else in order to prosper.

Your comments make it clear you do not make a payroll nor have you grown a business.

How the rich keep people poor? Try not paying people what they deserve. It doesn't make sense that a job, that started people at $35K a year, 15 years ago, should also start people out at $35K a year, now. Many places are taking advantage of the economy, and are starting people below what they started people 10-15 years ago. Yet, those companies, are making record breaking profits. Responsibility to the investors are far outweighing the responsibility to employees, and that, is what the problem is.

Pragmatic - read Wealth, Income and Power by William Domhoff (google it) but what you will see is that wealth is power, the power to buy politicians and make legislation's that favor the rich and big corportaions thereby further pushing the middle class into poverty.

Does that help?

The government can create more poor people by changing the statistics. More rich people can be created by changing the statistics. And vice-versa for both categories. I do not trust the statistics of the government. All of it is politically motivated. If this is not the case, somebody prove it for me.

It doesn't take "business sense" to know when a political party favors the rich over the poor. Just listen, that will tell you all you need to know.

The evidence is in, the "starving the beast" policies of the Republican party have made the disparity between the rich and poor even greater.

That is the EPIC FAIL.

The wealthy do not blame others for their misfortunes, they take personal responsibility.

That is why rich people are rich and poor people are poor.

Paul F.

Horsefeathers and you know it. You are now openly justifying paying someone a wage that does not allow them to live with dignity.

OCCUPY

You've decided that you're a victim of the evil rich and corporations, because they pay off the government.

Where is your anger at the government, who we elect and pay their salaries for life?

Should they be for sale? We can choose not to support businesses that do things with which we disagree - and a great example is what happened this weekend when tens of thousands of people pulled their accounts out of big banks.

How much choice do we have with the government? Can big business and rich people put us in jail? No. Can big business and rich people decide that success should be punished, confiscate money from one group and give it to another? No. Only government can do that, and they do. And yet, you blame rich people and businesses for taking something that government should have flatly refused to give in the first place.

How much do people "deserve" to make? Should the guy pushing the broom at a factory make the same amount of money as the VP of Marketing? And if he doesn't, does that make the VP of marketing a "fat cat" that's keeping the broom pusher down? Or did the broom pusher keep himself down, by being qualified for nothing but pushing a broom?

Stop drooling over other people's success, decide to throw out the bum in Washington - no matter what party because they both suck - and start taking responsbility for yourself. There is no other solution.

Perhaps if we tax them MORE??? Really? MOST of (if not all) the taxes they pay are sales taxes, and in many states those are not even collected on food/meds.

How about if we tax them for every BABY they have WHILE they are poor?

I don't think the rich are making people poor, but a prominent conservative arguement has been for years that if we let the rich keep all of their money they will use that money to give us all jobs. There is no data to support that, but we still hear it. As a moderate, I realize we need entitlement reform, but we also need a tax system that fairly taxes those that benefit from it the most. Just so I have said it though, taxing the rich at something close to the rate the middle class pays is only a small part of what will be required to fix our budget woes.

That being said, I know that there is no way that any argument from either side -- no matter how many facts are presented -- will change the intractable positions of Republicans or Democrats or supposed Independents who always are strongly on one side or the other in these forums.

Actually the rich are blaming others. They are blaming dead-beat homeowners for bad mortgages, mortgages that they themselves chose to sign also. The rich, as lenders, signed the very same papers that are now in foreclosure or already foreclosed on. They, the rich, also took their chances by entering into agreements that later failed. If you want a free market, then those rich should never had been bailed out, their companies should never had been saved by tax dollars. They should have failed and faded from existance.

Now why did I even THINK this thread would quickly degenerate to "Class Warfare" ?

The new indicator, called the Supplemental Poverty Measure...

Great.....another "indicator". Why didn't the "researchers" include a cross section of the American people, and others, in this report ?

It would be EXTREMELY interesting to find out where the "others" fit into this "poverty" report.

The rich do play a part in keeping people poor. The majority of the rich are either CEO's, who ship decent paying jobs overseas to get good bonuses and make investors happy and hedge fund investors who push CEO's to think short-term profits over everything else and thus have played a major part in encouraging CEO's to offshore good jobs. And both use their money to push for legislation that benefits only them with no thought of the consequences for anyone else. Combine that with tremendous inequity in the education system and an antiquated style in teaching in public schools, and many of the poor stay that way. Only a few (outliers) will push past all the obstacles because they have particularly strong characters to change things, but most people do not.

Sad that no one looks beyond getting what they want to realize that our country is fast losing its status as a super-power that can have any influence on world events.

Paul F..Millions of Americans do this every year...

I doubt it is millions every year. If in fact it was millions which means more than one million there would be no unemployment and actually a shortage of people for jobs. Love how people distort facts by throwing around large numbers with no clue how dumb those numbers sound. Do you work for the US Government?

One thing is for sure. The US fails when it comes to basic math and understanding how money creates wealth.

The "poor" I know have free health care. They rarely own cars and thus have no associated expenses there. They often connect with people that give them rides or take local transportation. Many of these people work for "cash" because in order to qualify for free health care they must keep their income very low. So if a person takes a 10/hr job full time, they lose the free health care in my state. Now they may get health care with that 10/hr job, but often times working the minimum hours and keeping the free health care along with earned income status is financially better.

A lot of commerce is done "under the table" for cash. If you think not, you do not know how the poor and lower middle class manage. I am not saying they live a big life at all. I am saying they manage on little because government services paid for by other workers are supplementing their lives and they do stuff for cash.

Eric,

I side with Pragmatic on this. This isn't about the rich exploiting the poor. It's about Washington enacting Free trade Agreements that enable corporations to put the middle class jobs on the same playing field as those jobs in China, and countries like China. (No one ever complained about those darned Canadians taking our jobs).

Washington should take the blame. And mostly the Republicans, but Obama is not any better signing the S. Korea, Panama and Colombian Free Trade Deals last month.

Paul F all that theory falls down when the majority of the people become poor and then they decide to throw a revolution, not good for the rich.

Can someone please tell me where a family of 4 can live on $24k a year? I live in NYC and half that is my rent alone, not including gas, electric or food.

I look at all the small business closures around me, and I see the back filling of a few of those properties with mostly only dollar stores, second hand shops, etc. The discretionary income of small business customers is drying up. Except for Donkephants and multinationals, we are clearly all in this together. Divided we fail.

serment du jeu de paume (1789)

With regards to the fact that Obama had the congress for the first year of his presidency, it is indeed true. People are forgetting, and the conservative press is deliberately obfuscating the fact that something had been done about the economy.

It was an almost $800 billion stimulus package, largely designed by the previous administration. And, to my democratic friends, George Bush was right to promote it (so good job George) because it did prevent a much larger banking crisis. The trouble is that the government asked for nothing in return, as far as better corporate citizenship.

The argument that democrats need to make, and that republicans should accept, is that with $800 billion in the pipeline it seemed like enough had been done. Therefore the plan was to let that money do its job to stabilize the markets, fix housing and get us back to business as usual. Due to those factors, efforts were made to address other issues, such as healthcare reform, which I am not taking a position on here. I am just saying, something bi-partisan had been done the first year.

After that first year, when it was apparent that the money was not enough, we did have a change of the congress and republicans have prevented any further substantive measures to address the economy, certainly as far as spending. And some, including leaders like Eric Cantor, have said it is their mission to impede such efforts by the president, so that they can win back the Whitehouse.

Now, I understand we need to reign in spending. The $1.2 trillion in cuts that is required by thanksgiving is about 10% of what the CBO says we need, and Obama’s $4 trillion, which may be vague, is also only about 30% of what we need, to balance the budget. But, we need to argue honestly about this.

Obama had the first year, and something massive was done. It was not enough, but by then the republicans had the house, and made gains in the senate, which have allowed for the political stalemate that we have had for the last two years.

I love this country. I have spent 10 years of my life defending it. And, republicans and democrats, are both still United States citizens. Argue honestly, and if you don't know something, please just look it up. Also, both sides are right about things, and wrong about things. These are very complicated issues.

"no one is stopping the hard working or the creative from starting their own business,"

Not true. I have a friend, an entrepreneur, who is trying to enlarge his business but he cannot. Why? BANKS. It does not matter that his current store has grown 20%/yr for the past 3 years. They refuse to grant him a loan to open more stores. He wants to open 5 and hire about 100 employees. But the banks we gave $700,000,000,000 to help them out will not help him.

"How much choice do we have with the government? Can big business and rich people put us in jail? No. Can big business and rich people decide that success should be punished, confiscate money from one group and give it to another? No."

Big business and the rich can certianly put people in jail. Or rather, they can avoid jail for themselves because they have enough money to buy themselves out.

Big business can CERTAINLY decide which (potentially) successful businesses should be punished for their success. Microsoft did it to Borland. Walmart does it all the time.

As for confiscating money, one word: ENRON.

The rich SOB's sent jobs overseas to Communist China. Real patriotic for you. How can the conservatives defend giving these SOBs tax breaks and subsidies? No ethics or integrity.

The middle class has been destroyed by the rich, moving the factory jobs oversees. Hiring people from other countrys to come here on work visa, such as computer programmers, because they do not have student loans to pay off and are willing to work cheaper. The rich dont pay taxes, they have accountants hiding there money. The poor dont pay taxes, but live off the middle class. Now the states are in budget crisis because we no longer have a middle class to pay taxes. Under employment is not the same as a well paying job. Keep breaking the unions, and the wages will keep dropping. Right to work states mean right to work for less. They say we need to be a service based economy, great , that is what mexico is.

I am a plumber, so far, they havent sent my job to china. However, a lot of people who I have done work for in the past have had there job sent there and can no longer afford to employ me.

Thanks to the Rethuglican Elite!! Maybe now they can go back to practicing Eugenics even though it was finally taken off N.C. books just recently in 2003. After all 31 States approved of it in the past. Gerrymandering to keep certain people from voting is just getting one step closer back to Eugenics without the individuals consent. Then you have Tea party members, who think there was nothing wrong with slavery (Michelle Bachmamn). How low can a group of people stoop!?!?

Slavery was wrong but we didn't live when that was going on did we.As for the TEA PARTY YOU DON'T KNOW THAT THEY THOUGHT THAT SLAVERY WAS RIGHT DO YOU.

It is sad is it not? This was a hell of a good country.

Thanks to the Teaparty and G NO P obstructionists.

Obama's the one is charge and has been for almost 3 solid years... I'm sure that Obama deserves at least some of the blame for this disaster...

And even he admits that we are not better off than we were 3 years ago...

Wrong... Bush inherited a booming economy from President Bill Clinton. --Bush slowly killed our economy and erased Clinton's balanced budget by giving tax cuts to millionaires who did not create jobs. They instead outsourced our jobs to China and India.

Like GE moving their entire x-ray plant from Minnesota to China? Do you know who Jeffrey Immelt is?

It was the FREE TRADE that turned US into a 3rd world country. Free trade only benefits international capital holders. They don't care who they have to scam to make their billions.

Lynn: Please don't give them facts, they'd rather believe the rhetoric. Not one will look at the situation honestly, not one will do any research, all they do is repeat catchy little sound bites which they're given and repeat. Obama has appointed some very interesting people to key positions, Immelt as jobs czar, Mr. Outsourcing personified, he and GE were among the first to start sending jobs out of the country, job losses under Immelt are in the hundred thousands and the Obama supporters can't see the irony or hypocrisy. Typical.

I love evidence, mygirl1, here it is: http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/the-recovery-act-worked-in-a-few-easy-charts/

The stimulus worked, it was the Republicans and their "starving the beast" policies that are slowly turning the US into a 3rd world country.

Bush inherited a recession. But don't let truth get in the way of your ignorance.

Muhamad - the facts state otherwise...

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/02/deception_as_a_principle_of_go.html

Bush inherited a surplus, not a recession.

But even if you believe Bush inherited a recession, then why cut taxes and go to war. That's not fiscally conservative in any sense of the imagination.

Lynn - get your thinking cap on. Obama can only control one of three branches of power and can only lead the rich and big corportaions to water but he can't make them drink.

If yiou for one moment think that John and Sarah would have made a better day then you are for sure blind. Mr. Obama was successful in keeping us out of a depression and that maybe is as good as it gets for now, live to fight another day.

When I gave food to the poor, they called me a saint. When I asked why the poor were hungry, they called me a communist. - Dom Helder Camara, Archbishop of Recife, Brazil.

Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains. I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country. - Thomas Jefferson

Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Abraham Lincoln

As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be most aware of change in the air--however slight--lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness. - William O. Douglas

We can have a democratic society or we can have the concentration of great wealth in the hands of the few. We cannot have both. - Louis Brandeis

We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the world - no longer a Government of free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of small groups of dominant men. - Woodrow Wilson

There are two ideas of government. There are those who believe that, if you will only legislate to make the well-to-do prosperous, their prosperity will leak through on those below. The DEMOCRATIC idea, however, has been that if you legislate to make the masses prosperous, their prosperity will find its way up through every class which rests upon them. - William Jennings Bryan

The communism of combined wealth and capital, the outgrown of overweening cupidity and selfishness which assiduously undermines the justice and integrity of free institutions, is not less dangerous than the communism of oppressed poverty and toil which, exasperated by injustice and discontent, attacks with wide disorder the citadel of misrule. - Grover Cleveland

It is to be regretted that the rich and powerful too often bend the acts of government to their own selfish purposes. - Andrew Jackson

Civil government, so far as it is instituted for the security of property, is in reality instituted for the defense of the rich against the poor, or of those who have some property against those who have none at all. - Adam Smith

I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. Corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. - Abraham Lincoln

hey , we were warned .

expect change , remember now ???????????????

Eric-913730 said:

"I love evidence, mygirl1..."

Your 'sources' of evidence is quoted by web-sites that suit only YOUR political persuasion. Don't try to 'fool' people with Your rhetoric. Biased much???

Try facing the reality of the State of the Nation that we're in right now.

By the way: the blame-game is over!!

Looks like a new calculation that favors old farts.

You mean the baby boomers are trying to manipulate the system?

Say it aint so.

The decline of the United States began years ago under NAFTA when major corporations began to use the maquiladora directly across the border into Mexico. Later moves were made to India and China and other third world nations where the ROBBER BARONS of this era could gain more bang for their buck. Whose fault is that? OURS!!!!!!!! For sitting back on our laurels and allowing this to happen. For buying into the myth that there is a difference in the parties. For allowing government to be in control of itself. For allowing a government of the people, by the people and for the people to become a pawn of the military industrial establishment. And, for so many other reasons to numerous to name. The fault is ours.

Does anyone believe for one second the same millionairs, or billionaires, who sent jobs out of this country are going to allow them back? If you do, you are out of your ever loving mind.

What is the answer? Certainly not the TEAPARTY. The answer is for you and me to take back this country. Has anyone noticed how many poice agencies there are in the USA at the State, Federal and local levels? Food and Drug Admin has law enforcement with guns, DEA, FBI, Customs and Immigration-Border Patrol, Social Security, Treasury, Secret Service, AFT, Department of Agriculture, Forest Service, National Parks, and literally hundreds more just at the federal level.

The merger of globalization and I.T. is driving huge productivity gains, especially in recessionary times, where employers are finding it easier, cheaper and more necessary than ever to replace labor with machines, computers, robots and talented foreign workers. It used to be that only cheap foreign manual labor was easily available; now cheap foreign genius is easily available. This explains why corporations are getting richer and middle-skilled workers poorer. Good jobs do exist, but they require more education or technical skills. Unemployment today still remains relatively low for people with college degrees. But to get one of those degrees and to leverage it for a good job requires everyone to raise their game. It’s hard.

Grinnell College in rural Iowa, with 1,600 students, “nearly one of every 10 applicants being considered for the class of 2015 is from China.” The article noted that dozens of other American colleges and universities are seeing a similar surge as well. And the article added this fact: Half the “applicants from China this year have perfect scores of 800 on the math portion of the SAT.”

@ Eric,

From the other side of the fence, I loved your 2.11. Kind of a win no matter the reply. I'm very fiscal, but not party aligned. In fact, I really don't care what Washington spends our money on, so long as it balances.

Lynn K.

Nice article at americamthinker, but the fact is that Bush stole the election not that the people were nervous about the economy and looked to Bush for saving, as the article insinuates.

Lynn/mygirl1: GE is opening an x-ray division in China to manufacture products specifically for the Chinese market and results in zero job losses in the US. We live in a global society and we must come to terms with the fact that our corporations have customers around the world, not just in the US. Of course, neither of you mentioned that GE broke ground on a new 300,000 square foot aviation factory in Auburn, Texas last week which will hire 300-400 workers.

chrislinden... and were you complaining that much when you saved a few pennies at the register? Of course those pennies saved cost someone his job his/her job, but did oyu complain about it then? It's a little late now to complain isn't it?

Muhamed Jesus H Vishnu-Goldstein #2.4,

When you have a free hour, please watch Frontline's "The Warning". This will let you see what was done to Brooksley Born when she considered regulating derivatives. Had the Washington crowd paid attention, we would not be up to our heads with financial problems. BTW, this occurred during Clinton's second term.

Nicotine is a drug, one of the worst.

Remember "no beer and no tv make homer something something".

Nothing like not having access to common culture (tv) to make poor kids outcasts.

I suppose there's always the bible eh?

MOmaid, so you know who is paying for their cell phones? Video rentals etc?

Momaid & Regie: I see you are firm believers in the GOP, let them starve and die method of dealing with the poor, disabled, elderly and women.

Good job !

dirp101: I think that there may be a huge misconception that many would see "helpless" people starve and die. I think it would be much more accurate to say that many would see those that are unwilling (not unable) to help themselves starve and die. That would be their simple decision and society would not (and should not) have to pay for their poor decision making. If it is a moral obligation (and it is for me on a discretionary basis), then VOLUNTARY outreach programs should be promoted, not government subsidising of those unwilling to provide for themselves.

Our economy (what's left of it) is no longer the issue. For too many years both political parties have spent money as if their is no bottom in that well.

Neither of them seem to understand that if you give your entire "rainy day funds" away, pretty soon you won't have anything left for that day. Well, ladies and gentlemen of the Congress and Executive branch, we seem to have reached that point. We have not only given away and obligated the rest of our slush fund, we have also eliminated the process by which we built that fund. The great American middle class is being eliminated as fast as can be.

Perhaps it is time we voted away both of our major political parties and came up with something really protected and good for we Americans.

P.S. I no longer vote for anyone who has "inc," after their name.

bmac - your generalization is totally mindless. There are certainly lazy and dishonest people around but you don't know if this is small small minority. There are thousands if not millions of people who would love to work if only they could find suitable work.

Then why aren't they working? There are currently about 3.2 million open jobs. Alabama just created a program to put people to work in agriculture and it has been a failure. Not because the program is bad, but because American's are LAZY and ENTITLED. Only a small number of people signed up, and those who did a vast majority quit after the first day because the work was too hard. We are all used to sitting in air conditioned offices at computers all day. We have spent trillions of dollars on helping the poor and what has it gotten us? An entire group of people entirely dependent on the government with no skills to improve their situation. It's time to cut them off. The strong willed people will survive and persevere through hardships while the lazy will fail.

Bmac is dead on.

In the local high school a 10 question quizz was given and less than 10% knew vegetables came from seeds.

But they are hella good on Farmville

Scary good....

Then why aren't they working? There are currently about 3.2 million open jobs. Alabama just created a program to put people to work in agriculture and it has been a failure. Not because the program is bad, but because American's are LAZY and ENTITLED. Only a small number of people signed up, and those who did a vast majority quit after the first day because the work was too hard. We are all used to sitting in air conditioned offices at computers all day. We have spent trillions of dollars on helping the poor and what has it gotten us? An entire group of people entirely dependent on the government with no skills to improve their situation. It's time to cut them off. The strong willed people will survive and persevere through hardships while the lazy will fail.

So, according to you, there are PLENTY of jobs out there right now. Right, keep thinking that...

Then again, feel free to cut off the bottom 60% of the population, and look how the economy does as a result. Worked out real well over in Greece now didn't it...

It really kills me when people say....."There are plenty of jobs out there, people are just too lazy"....that is so funny to me. How many of us know someone who applied to a job that they were clearly qualified for, yet did not get the job for whatever reason. Sometimes they don't even get the interview. This happens way too often, yet those who don't get it want to so that said person is lazy......SMDH......

Hey Billis, I work in a climate-controlled cubicle all day, sitting in front of a computer, doing a job that will soon be made obsolete because technology will end up eliminating my position. I get paid an okay salary (though I've not had a raise since 2007 and have had my salary reduced 10%, effectively cutting my income to 2002 levels). Give me a chance to work outside all day, doing something to strengthen my body, to do a job that is obviously in great demand (according to what I'm hearing from Alabama) AND earn a salary (with benefits) that befits that line of work (the kind of work that would practically kill your average CEO). Give me that offer and I, along with a whole lot of those so-called "lazy and entitled" people will be more than happy to apply!!

This is what you people don't seem to be able to grasp....you can't ask people to do work that is physically demanding, working for hours without as much as a pee break or a sip of water...and ask them to do it for $5/hr. (or less). How can you say they are lazy when the pay doesn't match the work! Once we get some semblance of order in compensation across the board, where men and women sitting behind oaken desks, having power lunches and hob-nobbing with the money brokers all day, get their pay cut down to where it should be....and those who actually DO the work that keeps those CEO's and business executives' businesses thriving get a MUCH larger share of the profit pie....once this happens, all the ruckus made by the "99%ers" will go away and there will be fairness (finally) in the workplace.

And you can't say that farmers can't afford to pay their workers more....not when these farmers are selling their crops willingly to foreign countries for literally nothing at all!! We need to assert ourselves in the foreign agriculture markets, to demand higher prices for grains in desperate need all over the world! Hell....our farmers charge huge premiums to their own countryman for their produce, yet they practically give the profits away because they refuse to charge the rest of the world that same price. We ought to do the same thing that the OPEC nations are doing to us!!!

The sooner we start looking out for our own citizens (all of them, not just the wealthy) and not worry about the rest of the world so much, the faster we'll recover from this mess.

Please...there's a huge difference between helping the truly helpless and coddling the clueless. When we tried another version of your taxpayer funded freebies with housing, we ended up with the likes of Cabrini Green and the Taylor projects in Chicago. Every city had them. Those became the biggest crime infested cesspools in America. Giving housing didn't work, why will giving land help? Don't you irrelevant progressives ever learn from your failed blueprints?

Get an education in something people actually value and go where the jobs are. They aren't on the reservation............

As Sam Kinison once famously said about curing world hunger - "Look, don't sent them food. We've been sending them food for 40 years. Send them U-Hauls!!! You live in a desert!! Move to where the food is!!

Peace and Prosperity

look I took over the family farm in 1980. even then it was hard to find anyone to work the farm. the only ones to apply were 14-16 year plds how wanted to work but couldn't get fulltime work permits. farm work is not easy, you work from sun-up to sun-down and work if it is hot, cold, sunny, cloudy or what ever. it is labor intensive, back braking work. approx.8 hrs. a day and sometimes 7 days a week. vacations are not paid, neither are health insurance. wages are $8 per hour. and we don't pay overtime till you work more than 56 hrs. in a week (ag is exempt from over 40 hr, is OT. by feds) and with americans doing farm work all they do is complain...too hot, too cold...to early...working too long hrs...not enough pay... need a break every 10-15 minutes...bending over picking hurts my back...kneeling and picking hurts my knees. and on and on.then you have to stand over them to get thrm to work. we have a 70 yr old who can pick 10 baskets of tomatoes in apprx. 1 hour...an american homeless guy in his early 50's workrd for us this year took 4 hours to pick 3 1/2 baskets of tomatoes and complained how tiring it was. the mexican workers we had would work for us in6 hrs in the am. then go home shower and go to work nights At a restaurant for a full 8 hr. shift. so don't say there is plenty of work out there. in the last 70 yrs we went from approx 80% of workers working on the farm to approx. 1-2% working on the farm.With the big manufacturing companies looking for labor at $1 or less per hour they closed up the US plants and went overseas where labor is cheap, no payouts for workmens comp., health ins., or pensions. they got tax breaks for moving operations overseas, plus the fact they pay almost zero in taxes but decide they need to get rid of thousands of employees because they want their bottom line higher than the millions & billions they make so they can pay their CEO<CCO>COO etc 7 figure salaries, millions in stock options, and then severance packages of 20+ millions of dollars for almost bankrupting the companies.

look I took over the family farm in 1980. even then it was hard to find anyone to work the farm. the only ones to apply were 14-16 year plds how wanted to work but couldn't get fulltime work permits. farm work is not easy, you work from sun-up to sun-down and work if it is hot, cold, sunny, cloudy or what ever. it is labor intensive, back braking work. approx.8 hrs. a day and sometimes 7 days a week. vacations are not paid, neither are health insurance. wages are $8 per hour. and we don't pay overtime till you work more than 56 hrs. in a week (ag is exempt from over 40 hr, is OT. by feds) and with americans doing farm work all they do is complain...too hot, too cold...to early...working too long hrs...not enough pay... need a break every 10-15 minutes...bending over picking hurts my back...kneeling and picking hurts my knees. and on and on.then you have to stand over them to get thrm to work. we have a 70 yr old who can pick 10 baskets of tomatoes in apprx. 1 hour...an american homeless guy in his early 50's workrd for us this year took 4 hours to pick 3 1/2 baskets of tomatoes and complained how tiring it was. the mexican workers we had would work for us in6 hrs in the am. then go home shower and go to work nights At a restaurant for a full 8 hr. shift. so don't say there is plenty of work out there. in the last 70 yrs we went from approx 80% of workers working on the farm to approx. 1-2% working on the farm.With the big manufacturing companies looking for labor at $1 or less per hour they closed up the US plants and went overseas where labor is cheap, no payouts for workmens comp., health ins., or pensions. they got tax breaks for moving operations overseas, plus the fact they pay almost zero in taxes but decide they need to get rid of thousands of employees because they want their bottom line higher than the millions & billions they make so they can pay their CEO<CCO>COO etc 7 figure salaries, millions in stock options, and then severance packages of 20+ millions of dollars for almost bankrupting the companies.

Well, the work IS hard, and many can't physically do it. But there is another difference. You are not going to get people who own houses and cars, pay for medical, property, and health insurance, etc., to work in those jobs. The "mexican" workers you have don't have expenses on anywhere near that order. They send all the $$$ to Mexico, where they where they will live well in a few years. Are you going to tell me that you withhold payroll taxes and give the "mexicans" a check after taking out Social Security, Medicare, and Federal and State taxes? If I took one of your jobs, I would not only have to pay payroll taxes, property taxes, vehicle taxes, medical insurance, car insurance, and home insurance, I wouldn't qualify for food stamps, subsidized housing, etc., etc., etc. You are the recipient of MY tax money that makes it quite profitable for your "mexican" workers to do your work. By avoiding these legitimate costs, you raise your profit. So quit complaining about Americans. We're the ones that buy your tomatoes for $3/lb. Would you like us to stop?

Alabama for all the screaming about job shortages in the Agricultural and poultry processing areas of North Alabama is BULL ROAR. It is just so much Jawboning and fabrications by special interest groups to get the precious illegals that are bankrupting our city and county hospitals to be able to stay on. I.E., creating a situation that doesn't really exist. Since everyone that lives outside of Alabama knows so much more than the folks that live there and deal with the mission work of trying to help folks find jobs. Your so smart so please be kind and let us know where all these thousand of agricultural jobs are. Simply go to Alabama JOB LINK dot com. "The official site for the unemployed and try to get one of these tens of thousand of jobs. Thats the ticket just try and find one that hasn't been filled in Jan or Feb. Happy Hunting, oh and btw, to make it even more interesting I will tell you up front that approximately 70 to 75 percent of the jobs there on the web site were filled months ago. The employers have failed to remove them, and the government workers have admitted it's a real problem. The employers are supposed to remove the job once filled. I personally have been transporting approximately a dozen unemployed homeless vets looking for any job to use the computers at the Employment Office. They have been trying to get on at the poultry plants or picking veggies, and for those of you that don't know. Alabama and it's hard working farm families have survived quite well for decades without illegals. The whole family works. Just know the facts please before the ignorant remarks about the unemployed being on the welfare teat. It happens, yes but most here have been hurt more by a decade of Bush's police action wars, banking meltdown, stock market crashes and jobs moving to India and Mexico. Now it Obamas turn and it's no different. For crying out loud we have Engineers delivering Dominos Pizza and Steak Out. Due to layoffs and unemployment expiring.

moonbeamracer

The more intense government involvement grows, the worse it will get .......

Moonbeam....how appropriate. You're right, let's leave it all to Wall Street, they've done so well so far.

anydream...so you pay your insurance premiums to the government. It's not the insurance company who raised your premiums, and it's not the bank corporation who is not paying you interest on the money you have in your savings.

Dejay--IF it is the POS insurance companies who raise the cost of medical care (and it partially is) tell me exactly how Obamacare, which FORCES all Americans to BUY from those insurance companies will do ANYTHING to lower health care costs?

I dont know what you are talking about. I make 42 an hour, free health insurance for my family (190 a year for PPO might as well say free), not in a union, self educated IT professional.

In a way because I am responsible all you others not as responsible pay more to pay my insurance. Guess going to class and not investing my future into legalized gambling paid off (Wall Street)

Mark, I'm in the same boat as you ... (well, okay, my husband is) but not everyone can be as lucky as we are. I nearly died when my teacher friend told me what his (non-existent) benefits are like. I can't say, "Well, be a tech guy!" when he really wants to teach math. No wonder education in America is down the toilet. He quit teaching because his wife can earn more (in IT, coincidentally) while he stays home and figures out what he wants to do to get a master's.

First of all, Anthem of BC/BS has raised their premiums across the board by about 80% in the last 15 years alone. This, keep in mind, has been done at the same time they have dropped reimbursements to doctors by about 25%.

As a doctor myself, you think I am not upset that my paycheck goes down (without any say by me, of course), while I witness many patients not receiving the care they need because they cannot afford it or have lost their insurance altogether due to premium prices?? It's completely asinine.

Second, Obamacare has NOT been put into place YET. How many times do we need to hash this out?? Sure, the policy sucks, but it hasn't been fully implemented yet anyways. So let's not go blaming Obama just yet for this current fiasco. Besides, I fully believe (imho) that Obama had the right idea when he first started the healthcare reform. But after countless hours of debate/compromise/railroading the policy was watered down (mainly by the lack of a public option, which was paramount to his bill) and we are left with an idiotic policy that only serves to inflate the coffers of the large insurance conglomerates.

Third, these insurance companies have been increasing rates dramatically since Clinton's administration, and have sped up their rate of increases since!

So get off the partisan kick. To reduce this whole issue down to finger-pointing at one party or another is futile and sophomoric. The real blame ought to be placed at the feet of the insurance companies who constantly place profit over ethics, and the government's role in allowing these companies to have free reign.

My option: COMPLETE UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE. Period. Open Medicare for everyone, then make the necessary changes to it in order to create stability and longevity. Everybody in, no one left out in the cold. We are the richest f---ing nation on earth, but we allow babies to die for lack of proper healthcare. And you think I'm lying or hyperbolizing the situation, think again. It happens. More often than everyone would like to think.

Socialism is NOT a bad word or idea. It is what creates a fair, equal society. Necessities should be nationalized, at least in part. To simply refuse universal healthcare on the false notion it is too "socialistic" is heartless and deleterious to our nation. Would you let your family member die for lack of healthcare affordability????

Indy Patriot-1934313....THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!! Thank you for making this much needed point and keeping the issue non partisan....because it has nothing to do with this side or that. People need to realize that insurance companies are not out to cure the people or aid them when they need it......insurance companies want to make money! The issue we are dealing with in regards to raised rates has been in play LONG BEFORE Obama came on the scene. I agree the bill passed was not ideal, but at least he made an attempt to make a change no matter how little it was. Please realize these companies are out to make money no matter what.....and the government has been backing these companies over what is best for the people for too many years to count.

I want to see Congress and all the other public employess off their special perks programs. No more separate retirement plans or pensions or health care paid for by the public for the rest of their lives. It is total hypocrisy for those on 'the hill' to be talking about poverty when they get a lifetime pension and healthcare on the backs of the American public. We the public have been totally taken by letting these people determine what salaries and benefits they get. No wonder they won't listen to us, they have already figured out they can do whatever they want for the most part. They worst that happens is that they don't get re-elected and since most are already very wealthy, they don't really need the job.

Thank you. Despite the obstructionist policies of the Do-Nothing congress.

And how many were really needed for the survival of this country?

So Obama did ALL that by himself and we are still sinking? Wow! Great job, Mr. President!

Good post, Whipsplash, thanks. I appears more legislation and regulations isn't the answer.

Thanks Whipspash,

pacoperson, the biggest problem with this list of legislation is that it doesn't go far enough. They're still trying to play nice to the big corporates and as a result, we're not going down as quickly as the Bush presidency, but we're definitely not pulling ourselves out of the hole we were thrown in.

pacosperson, That depends, how much worse might it be without some of those bills passed. You might be paying 60% on credit card balances, that's the direction it was headed. The ARR act fixed nearly every road I have to travel in my area, and created jobs and help sustain business in the area. I won't go on with manufacturing jobs saved etc., etc.. I know what deregulation got us, so do my old neighbors who lost their houses. And after 12 years of bush tax breaks, it's clear they don't create jobs.

Bush was in office 8 years, not 12, Obama continued Bush tax policies.

There were existing laws limiting credit card intest rates, so no, interest rates would not by 60%.

There have been no "job saved" that can be measured, except for temporary government jobs.

Our roads throughout our city are still a mess, even though we pay road / fuel taxes to maintain these roads. Government is completely corrupt - they have rerouted this money into government executive pay, benefits, and retirement, which is why the state of CA is broke, must reform government retirement, and is a picture of the cesspool America will soon look like if we do not stop the insanity of the liberal mind.

pacosperson

Good post, Whipsplash, thanks. I appears more legislation and regulations isn't the answer.

You know Pacosperson, I keep hearing this crap from the right. So beyond giving more tax cuts to the wealthy and to corporations (which hasn't worked over the last 30 years), what exactly do you suggest. Perhaps fewer banking regulations will stimulate the economy? Perhaps we could eat filthier food, breath filthier air and buy all our potable water from the corporation; would that stimulate the economy? What is it about the "demand" that the right-wing doesn't get? No one is going to invest in OUR economy without increased demand. We can only increase demand by insuring the middle-class has enough disposable income to purchase products and services. Get it? We have to spend our way to prosperity. Cutting our way to prosperity is an absolute oxymoron. The more we shed government jobs to save money the less money will be spent into the economy. Why is this concept so difficult for you people to get?

Paul F

Bush was in office 8 years, not 12, Obama continued Bush tax policies.
And Reagan was in office for 8 years, Bush the Elder for 4 years, Bush the Lesser for 8 years.

There were existing laws limiting credit card intest rates, so no, interest rates would not by 60%.
Very weak laws with a considerable number of loop-holes. Interest rates were hitting 29% and raising.

There have been no "job saved" that can be measured, except for temporary government jobs.
Money went to the states to fund local police, fire and teachers. Do you not consider GM jobs as jobs saved?

Our roads throughout our city are still a mess, even though we pay road / fuel taxes to maintain these roads. Government is completely corrupt - they have rerouted this money into government executive pay, benefits, and retirement, which is why the state of CA is broke, must reform government retirement, and is a picture of the cesspool America will soon look like if we do not stop the insanity of the liberal mind.
Right! Let's try "Trickle-Down" economics for another 40 years in the hope of different results (I believe that's the definition of insanity).

When they show you who they are...believe them!"

Lay off Obama..he made it all transparent.

They are not for us..so you best be for ourselves

Be careful what you wish for you might just get it.

Maybe I don't understand your post.....after all, I could just be having an "off" day.......but are you suggesting that placing restrictions on the highest quintile income earners is a bad thing? Right now, is having more people move into the highest brackets a good thing, at the same time our overall economy is facing deflation and the poor are getting poorer?

But I honestly, truly don't want to be wealthy! I just want my job as an educator moved back to full-time, my benefits back, and the accumulated benefits I lost restored. I have asked Governor Christie, but he said 'NO!"

As I write every time: I WANT TO WORK!

Good luck with that.

The top 1% has always done fine. They do fine whether the other 99% do fine or not. Taxing them until they become one of the 99% does NOTHING to help the OTHER 99%.

I support your right to fight for the wealthy that pay 17% on their income while you pay 30% on yours.

why don't you take some of your energy and better your own self instead of pointing your righteous finger at other people??

You're completely missing the point, whisplash.

If the wealth of the 1% were confiscated - in its entirety - it would not solve the debt and deficit crisis in this country. And we would be behaving as Bolsheviks - notice how well that worked out for the Bolsheviks?

Taxing the 1% will not resolve the annual deficit - no matter how high you tax them.

There always have been and always will be a top 1% - even under the Bolsheviks, it was the Bolesheviks that became the 1% after murdering the former 1% and stealing their money. The only equality achieved was misery - everyone was equally miserable but the Bolsheviks.

The issue is jobs. Solid, blue collar jobs that pay a living wage at which people unable or unwilling to go to college can be employed and live comfortably. And the pressures on an unskilled labor force is no longer confined to the borders of our country - it's global, and unrelenting.

We have raised two generations of people at this point that were told, largely by pointy headed wealthy liberals I would add, that working a blue collar job was beneath them and they should go to college. The same pointy headed wealthy liberals have demanded regulation of both business and the environent that has stangled and nearly killed the manufacturing base in this country, which was the source of well-paying, low skill/education jobs.

So, while you're busy blaming rich people out of jealousy, you're wasting your time. It is another pointy headed wealthy liberal fallacy that one person's wealth comes at the expense of another person. Long for a Bolshevik revolution all you want, just be sure you're a Bolshevik when it happens.

Prag, you're smarter than this.....

You know full well that the problem lies not with the rich people themselves, but rather with the system in place that allows money to be consolidated at the top.

And no one is considering taxing ALL the wealth from those who have it. Of course confiscating all of their wealth would not fix our fiscal problems. But this country seemed to do far better when the rich WERE being taxed more heavily. "Trickel-down" does not work. If it did, then please explain why we're still in the mess we are?

that is how the liberal movement has been perverted for political sake.

This has not one thing to do with Liberal or Conservative. It has everything to do with the Robber Barons of this era. The fuel which serves as fodder for a Capitalist society is nothing less than Greed and her sisters of the seven deadly sins. Greed sent jobs over seas. Greed and the apathy, and ignorance, of the American people are the sole responsible causations for the current state of affairs.

And what does that have to do with the price of tea in China...nothing

How can you possibly blame President Obama when none of his policies have been enacted without being totally bastardized by the right.

If his policies had been enacted without being so watered down that they were almost unrecognizable; then you could blame him for the outcomes, but since that is not the case you can not blame him.

mrwood3 said

no one will starve to death here in the usa.

If that is the case why do 1 in 4 children in the US go to bed hungry. Google it and see what you find.

Don't forget about Afganistan, Egypt, Libya and Africa.

There's plenty of wasted money to go around.

Good post.

Why I got a remote job and moved out of the country. My rent on a 5 Br house on the beach is 240 USD a month vs a studio in Chicago for 975

Maybe u should consider moving. Lots of farm jobs and cheap housing in Alabama

No, let him stay where he's at; don't need him. This post just illustrates how Corporate America is bilking the Middle Class using this Multinational concept to "play both ends against the middle.....class. JMJ

Why do you forget to give Clinton credit for NAFTA

Because you are obviously a leftie looking for sympathy because someone had their handout cut back.

NAFTA and was it GAT were huge mistakes for our Nation. Clinton may have given us these travesties but Bush Jr. beat us to death with them.........

rjs, the Rich who run Corporate America are the most disloyal individuals on earth (don't care about OUR Nation) and can not see pass the bottom line. JMJ

The problem is that we have removed all incentive for poor people to ever go to work. Why work when you can get food stamps, cash assistance, utilities assistance, section 8 housing, EIC tx "refunds", free healthcare, free school meals, etc.

We should have put the level of assistance at just below minimum wage standards to keep the incentive to work alive.

This isn't the 50's anymore. You can't survive on $60/week. Hell you can't even fill your tank for $60/week. While there are some people who abuse the system, there are many more who do require it to get by. If they have cell phones/video games more than likely they are gifts from other members of the family. And last time I checked, section 8 housing wasn't anything to write home about. Chances are those that are on this assistance are just getting by. They are just getting by because they probably can't get a good education because its too expensive to go to college, and if they did go, they can't get a job because no one is hiring.

The real problem is that we don't have middle class goods. Drug companies are out of control with prices. Banking institutions are out of control with nickel and diming everything. Airline prices have the same nickel and diming tactics. Gas prices which are at least $1 more than they should be. But these companies are beholden to stockholders which demand high double digit returns. We the American people have created this monster and until we start taking a long view of our world, we'll continue to be in this vicious cycle.

that was a different generation of people. a generation who respected working and admired personal responsibility. before the liberal movement perverted our society.

While I agree with what you are saying in principal, the reality is that the opportunities do not exist.

"Start your own small business, like window washing, house cleaning, painting, car detailing, yard work or anything," sounds great but you cannot do that today. To do ANY of those things requires permits, liscenses, and for much of what you listed a bond and insurance.

Yardwork, not landscaping, but just simple yardwork requires at a minimum, a mower, rake, leaf blower, shovel, assortes clippers and trimmers, edger, etc. Let's say you get all those tools used you are still looking at a few hundred dollars investment, and you're gonna need a pickup (more expenses for fuel and insurance, all up front) to haul the tools and haul away the yard debris. And let's say you want that pickup to run for more than a month so you spend at least 1,500 bucks there. So after you add all these start-up costs a conservative ammount to begin with would be about $3,000, and that's before you do a single job.

How many people living at/near the poverty line have that kind of scratch? I personally spent years in that situation and it's nearly impossible to get out. Fortunately for me I found a job with real advancement opportunities and have worked my way into a management position and have escaped that trap, but only to a point. Only as long as the paychecks continue to roll in, if I lose this we (my family and I) are 60 - 90 days from being right back there again.

Brian, this is so very difficult for me to write...I know it is my pride, but here goes.

I am recently divorced, had my full-time job as an Instructional Aide cut to part-time, and have a part-time job tutoring/babysitting. Believe me, I am soooooo blessed to have what I have. Now, the mortgage we used to be able to afford has increased because of a recent revaluation ( happens every 10 years or so), I won't give away my dog or 2 cats whom I love, selling my 2010 Mitsubishi I bought last year for cash because my 2003 van died at about 100,000 miles would not make economical sense, I need to keep my gym membership because my doctor advises the type of exercise available there is best for my health issues, it is cheaper to limit my meds and doctor visits and pay out-of-pocket than trying to buy healthcare,...the list goes on and on. I must appear haughty, ungrateful, and arrogant...but I am trying to make the best decisions for me and my last remaining child at home. I am glad the older 2 are doing OK for now, but there is always the possibility they may need to move home...if I can manage to hang on to the home.

I have applied for a mortgage modification and heating assistance. I don't want to, but I see no alternative. You have accurately assessed my situation. Thank you for not judging me and others like me.

I think you hit the nail on the head, gone are times when a much more simpler life was focused on hard work with high moral and family values. Comparing the tv programs and movies of decades before and with that of today reveals exactly what our family values and society has become. Although we are progressing in technoloy, we seems to be regressing as a society.

The decline of a great country is showing badly from too much greed and divisiveness, moral and ethical corruption, over extending power and control with far flung wars just as ancient Rome did. History does repeat itself as with almost all great civilizations. Lessons not learned and too soon forgotten.

SHHHHH

they might hear you dude...the last person that said that got hit by a drone overseas and was called a Muslim extremest.

But if they make money the handouts will decrease for a net 0 gain. Not any real incentive

mike, I think you should read a wee bit of history... the country started going to hell while Nixon was at the helm... Reagan's "trickle down" didn't work... trickle down truned into trickle up... from the poor to the wealthy. Things got better for a while when Clinton was Presidient, then came the disaster known as "Bush and Cheney, the Lords of the Lie"... and you want to blame the Democrats?? SMH I can't understand how anyone who is middle or lower class would ever vote for a Republican or a Teabag. Every time there has been some progress while a Democrat was in office, the Republicans erased it all when they came to power again.

What the hell is the matter with you? Have you slept through the last 30 years? Both parties, with the exception of a few have sold out the middle class to the rich. It has not a goddamn thing to do with Johnson's war on poverty, which by the way, has been clubbed to death at every opportunity by the Republicans. If you insist on blaming the Democrats, fine. But to not even mention the fault of the "Greedy Old Party" ignores 3 decades of financial deregulation, largely by Republicans that has created this criminal wealth gap in America! You also ignore the many years the Republicans controlled one or both houses of Congress. Did you forget about that messy little detail? You beat the same old dead Republican horse. Blame the poor for being poor. After all, it's a known fact that the poor are all a bunch of shiftless, lazy good for nothing leeches. One other thing. You mention the minimum wage. In 1973 it was $3.15 per hour. If it had increased only with inflation, it should be over $21.00 by now.

And yet the Dems have controlled Congress, and thus spending, for 32 years since 1959. GOP has controlled Congress for just 10 years. So who really is to blame?

If you haven't figured out that LBJ's policies--the war on poverty, Medicare and Medicaid are major contributors to our economic crisis, then you should take a look at it.

For the record, the Dems have controlled BOTH Houses of Congress 61.54% of the time since 1959. The GOP has controlled it 19.23% of the time since 1959.

Are you saying that the Dems can not stop the GOP from passing "bad" legislation while in the minority and can't pass "good" legislation while they have the majority? Because that sounds like they can not govern effectively either way, so why keep giving them a pass?

Apparently you either can't read or you ignored my response. I didn't give the Democrats a pass. Both parties are responsible. My point was, that you seem to ignore and culpability by the Republicans. The last thirty years has seen the largest transfer of wealth from the poor and middle class in the history of the world. In 1980 the top 5% controlled 40% of the wealth in America. Today, the top 1% controls over 90% of American wealth . You say the 1% always does fine. It sure as hell helps when they own the Congress and the White House outright! The entire system stinks and is in dire need of reform. The politicians aren't going to do it. They're not going to kill the golden goose. It's up to the people. The Occupy Wall Street movement is a good start. Nobody is asking the rich to turn in the keys to their Gulf Streams, their Bentleys or their villas in the south of France. We just want a fair share of the economic pie. That will require a return to a progressive income tax and strict financial regulation, including a breakup of the banks and other predatory corporations.

how many of those wealthy are democrats? answer that before you point your finger at republicans. the most wealthy people are democrats. they get that way by brainwashing the people to hate the other guy while they gut the american economy.

Our quality of life is on decline. But we are going back to normal. See, the good days you have seen in the past were borrowed from the future.

An entire nation cannot borrow for decades and then hope that all will be fine when the pay back time arrives. Inflation or deflation, the outcome is going to be the deduction of the real value of debt from the money supply. What was borrowed will be paid back one way or another. If Bernanke prints too much, savers will pay alot. If Bernanke prints too little, borrowers will pay alot. But at the end, when the dust settles, it does not matter who pays in a global economy. Deflation is more likely than inflation in the near term. This is because if Bernanke does not print, then it is outright deflation as debt deflates. If Bernanke prints too much, then creditors will not lend at low rates, thus reduction in credit supply will be deflationary for credit dependent markets such as housing. In any case, deflation means pool is shrinking.

Google for "How do banks create money" to understand the root cause of the problem.

STM

Does not matter which Party has the richest. What does matter is that the GOP has lost touch with the Middle Class, and is categorically the Party of the Rich, and Super Rich Elite.

On the other hand, I can not think of one Democrat that has the guts to point fingers at Corporate America and go after them with investigations and legislation. JMJ

M H

You best look at the damage wrought by Reagan (trickle down), and Bush Junior (eight years of FUBAR).

Your Party is out in the open and most certainly the Party of Corporate America and the Rich. JMJ