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NEW YORK — October is somewhat cursed for the stock market — the Crash of 1929, Black Monday in 1987, a slow-motion meltdown in 2008. This time, the demons made a last gasp, but Wall Street still managed to break the jinx.
Stocks had their best month in almost a decade, rising from their low point of the year in an almost uninterrupted four-week rally. The juice mostly came from Europe, which appeared to finally find a strategy for taming its debt crisis.
But the finish sure was ugly. The Dow Jones industrial average fell 276 points and finished below 12,000 on the final day of the month. It was as rough an end as it was a beginning: On the first trading day of October, the Dow lost 258.
Despite the dismal Monday, it was an amazing month for Wall Street:
- The Dow is up 1,041 points, or 9.54 percent, for the month.
- Largest monthly points gain in Dow history.
- Largest monthly percentage gain for the Dow since October 2002.
- The Dow snapped a five-month losing streak.
- For the year, the Dow is up 3.3 percent.
- The Standard & Poor's 500 index, the broadest major market average, rose 10.8 percent for the month, the best since December 1991.
Bank stocks were hit hard Monday. MF Global, a securities firm headed by former New Jersey Gov. Jon Corzine, filed for bankruptcy protection. Rating agencies downgraded the company last week, worried that it holds too much European debt.
Still, even counting the Halloween scare, October 2011 will be remembered on Wall Street for a comeback that only the St. Louis Cardinals, baseball's nearly eliminated, newly crowned champions, could match.
On Oct. 3, both the Dow and the S&P closed at their lows of the year. The market had been through a brutal summer and was one bad day away from falling into bear market territory, down 20 percent from its most recent peak.
Investors were worried that the United States, with an economy growing at the slowest pace since the end of the Great Recession, was on the brink of falling back into recession.
And if the U.S. didn't tip into a new recession by itself, the market was worried that Europe would give it a push. Greece and other European nations face crushing debt, and European banks that loaned them money face big losses.
A recession in Europe would be bad news for the United States because Europe buys about 20 percent of American exports.
Someone opening a quarterly account statement at about that time might have tossed it in the garbage and been afraid to look again. But that day was to be the turning point.
Reports that European leaders were working on a debt plan began trickling out. Investors gained confidence after the leaders of France and Germany pledged to come up with a far-reaching resolution by the end of the month.
Added to the encouraging news out of Europe: stronger corporate earnings from the likes of Google and McDonald's and signs that the U.S. economy was not as bad as feared. Retail sales rose 1.1 percent in September, the biggest gain in seven months.
When European leaders finally unveiled the deal Thursday, stocks roared higher. The S&P 500 jumped 3.7 percent and was up for the year for the first time since Aug. 3, just before the U.S. government's debt lost its AAA credit rating.
"It's a rally off what was a very pessimistic view of the global economy," says Todd Henry, an emerging-market equity specialist at T. Rowe Price. "Does it have legs? I think that's yet to be seen."
Under the debt agreement, banks will take a 50 percent loss on their Greek government bonds. Europe will also add money to a financial rescue fund to protect other countries. And banks will increase their capital reserves to protect themselves.
With the October books closed, the Dow was at 11,955.01, up about 83 percent from March 2009, its lowest point after the financial meltdown. It would have to rise more than 2,200 points from here to set an all-time high.
The S&P 500 finished the month at 1,253.50, down 32 points on Monday, or 2.5 percent. The Nasdaq composite index fell 53 points for the day, or 1.9 percent, and ended October at 2,684.
Besides the Depression-heralding collapse in 1929, the crash in 1987 and the meltdown 2008, the stock market suffered through a mini-crash on Friday the 13th in October 1989 and a 554-point drop in the Dow on Oct. 27, 1997.
But the month "turned the tide" in 11 bear markets after World War II, according to the Stock Trader's Almanac. And it turned out to be the best single month for the market from 1993 to 2007, according to the almanac.
Strong as it was, this October wasn't close to ranking as one of the best. After the 1929 crash, the market routinely ran up much bigger percentage gains. In July and August 1932, for example, the market gained more than 36 percent each month.
Worries about a second recession have receded somewhat. The government announced last week that the economy in July, August and September grew at an annual rate of 2.5 percent, more than twice the speed of earlier this year.
The European debt crisis is still far from fixed. One troubling sign is that borrowing costs for Italy and Spain have increased, a signal that traders remain worried about those countries' ability to pay their debts.
And there are problems closer to home. A congressional "supercommittee" has to find $1.2 trillion in deficit cuts in less than a month, and Republicans and Democrats are fighting about whether to focus on higher taxes or cuts in federal spending.
If they can't agree, investors are worried that Moody's, the prominent credit rating agency, will follow S&P and strip the United States of its top rating, or that S&P will lower its rating even further.
Associated Press contributed to this report.
CNBC's Seema Mody and Bertha Coombs discuss the factors behind the Monday tumble.
Leave a Comment:
Looks like nbc/cnbc put the lid on the corzine story (cramer's buddy).
Enough about legalized gambling....
Where are the jobs!?
Moral to the Dow Jones lackluster yoyo performance: CONSUMER CONFIDENCE.
Things will look brighter when Mr. Obama and his Liberal Activist friends leave the confines of the White House grounds after the 2012 elections.
Ugly or not, investors decided to take profits and go home, that's all; no big deal. Tomorrow's another day.
Well the Reps crashed it, and now the Dems have salvaged it. That's the way things always go. We can all thank Obama and the rest of the Dems for their efforts over the past few years. Yes, not all their ideas worked well, but overall they saved us from a catastrophe and by the end of 2012 we will be able to finally forget Bush and his 8 years of near financial destruction.
Yeah, this had absolutely nothing to do with Europe, the bailouts in Europe and the agreements on the Greek debt....nope, it was All Obama...uh huh.
So how are they going to put all of MF's unsecured creditor losses on the taxpayer? This is a large bankruptcy. And how much of a golden parachute will Corzine get? And what job will Obama offer him?
Perhaps he will get Timmy's job, financial incompetance seems to get rewarded handsomely. Wonder how the taxpayers will get to do this bailout? What ruse will be used this time?
The rise and fall of the stock market has little to do with the financial well beings of the average American worker. As a matter of fact, those American who invested their 401k in commodities like gold or silver rather than stocks would not have lost 50% of their porfolio during the financial meltdown preceding the Great Recession.
The stock market is filled crooks and dishonorable people. Lurking in every dark corners of WallSt are the ruthless cut-throats ready to cut the heart out from the naive investor. To the average American investor with keen eye sight, the stock market is likev a pool of hungry sharks. Tricks. Scams. Insider Trading. Stock manipulation. While corporate CEOs and top managers earn 7 digit salaries plus perks, the shareholders gets pennies per share as dividend. In essence, the stock market is a scam preying on the dreamers who want to be rich, quickly.
How convenient the MSNBC and the MSM don't mention, if they mention the story at all, that Corzine is a Democrat. I'm sure Obama will find a place for him somewhere in his administration. Rats of a feather stick together.
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/07/president_obama_stumps_for_cor.html
Why is this such an issue for you? Has wrong-doing been alleged regarding Corzine? Has it been shown that Obama has been shielding Corzine from the consequences of his actions?
...or are you just indulging in a little knee-jerk paranoia regarding Obama and his position at the root of all our economic woes.
dman - anyone with half a brain knows corzine is an idiot - keep Obama out of it please.
R.A.S. I thought I was clear in responding to yabecoo, that I was questioning why he (or she) was so concerned with the political affiliations of Corzine, and postulating some evil connection to Obama.
The subject of Corzine's mental capacity never came up, nor does it seem relevant. Idiots in business are more common than bugs in slum apartment.
Idiots in business are more common than bugs in slum apartment:
Ditto the politicans who pander to them....and yes, the Obama connection once again rears its head. Corzine is a top fundraiser for Obama...as per the MSNBC article....so guess Solyndra didn't register with you either?
Mygirl - Yea its exclusive to the Democraps, keep dreaming. Defending a Political party is basically suicide. Mygirl I suppose Bush's ties to ENRON is no big Deal or hiring a Treasury Secretary straight out of Goldman Sachs or Handing out no bid contracts to Haliburton when its clear Cheney made this happen. Didn't hear your ire then?
These guys play a game and you guys are the worlds greatest pawns, defending and fighting for these clowns.
We get exactly what we deserve until we get the big money out of Politics, this includes Unions and Wall Street..
Kevin: The point here is that both parties do it, have been doing it and will continue ad nauseum. The Obama defenders are quick to point out Bush's malfeasances while sweeping the exact same typed of behaviours coming from Obama under the carpet. Bush is no longer in office, Obama is. Rather than defending Obama by always blaming Bush, perhaps the buck needs to stop getting passed. Blaming Bush may satisfy the disgruntled but it also allows the same egregious actions to continue under the presidency of Obama.
As to my ire then...I didn't have access to the computer like I have now, trust me, I'd have been typing away under Bush as well. But, again, I'll reiterate, Obama is the president and has been for three years now. Blaming Bush and giving Obama a pass? How, exactly does that prevent or cure a problem?
Would you people please hire some proofreaders! It's a pain in the neck reading the same paragraph over and over in this story!
Market will go up at least 300 points tomorrow because some bought a new car in Oct.
Do you mean this story:
http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/10/31/8561579-troubled-brokerage-mf-global-files-for-bankruptcy
Just plain scary how commonplace stories like this have become especially at these astronomical dollar amounts. I hate knowing that the last half of my life will be a reversal of the decency this great nation once stood for; all for some game of 'who will own it all'
So what happen, Europe is in the gutter again? I thought it was all good?
I can hardly wait for the new jobs report Friday. I wonder how badly the government will lie? Then of course, the stock market will shoot up too depending how many fake jobs they say were added.
Social Security may no longer be there when you need it, but your 401(k) will forever be a bedrock of stability to fulfill your financial dreams.
I hope so! My 401k is down 0.6% for the year. I think at one point it was down 14%. Nice to see an articel about Wall St without the word "Occupy" in front of it!
Hooray for the top 1% of America continuing to increase their percentage of the nation's wealth!
There are 435 members in the house of representatives, 100 senators and more than 14,000 lobbyist running our country. There is no other 'democracy' on earth with a system where unelected lobbyists wield such Incredible power over the government. Over 2008 & 2009 these lobbyists spent 6.7 billion dollars coaxing our elected officials to do the will of the corporations, institutions, and individuals that hired them. But hey, ROI is good! For every $1 that the lobbyist spends bribing our elected officials the company or interest group doing the bribing makes roughly $100 in benefits, either in avoiding pain- such as taxes and regulations- or in benefits received - such as awarded contracts, grants, or tax payer generated funding (yes they bribe Congress to get handouts in tax payer money). That sort of return on investment you just can't find anywhere else.
Thank goodness the really wealthy people are continuing to do well!
The sellout, Uncle Tom, Oreo Juan Williams is again saying what liberals only think about. He said the liberals are frightened and freak out over Cain. If Cain takes away the middle class blacks vote, Obama will have to take poverty pimping to another level.
Oops, wrong thread. I saw the title "Ugly End to Historic" and I thought it was about November 6, 2012.
Cain?? a stand up comedian!! Mitt in 2012 !!
This story should really read
"4-week rally sees 4th week sell-off as 1st week buyers seek to realize gains"
Your observation is correct. Anyone who failed to take some profits after the past 4 week run up is foolish.
But we could always try to find another reason, like counting of the auspices!
The media likes to think that the European debt discussion is reason for the ups and downs.
I'm going to go with the increased concern of minorities being the focus of advertising for sugary drinks.
I think it's time that democrats and independents who believed in the 'hope' and 'change' thatObama campaigned for consider putting his second term on the altar of democracy and sacrificing it for the better good of the country. How else can we send a message to the political system? If you promise us change and fail to deliver, if you make a point of being against lobbying and then in the last moment accept more lobbying contributions than everyone else, we will abandon you the way you abandoned us…
Obama has managed to get more money from Wall Street for his campaign than all the Republican candidates combined, which can only mean that Goldman Sachs and Bank of America like his flavor of 'Hope' and 'Change' enough that they're looking forward to a second term.
Gitmo is still open. Not one executive from Bank of America, Goldman Sachs, or any of the other criminal financial firms went to jail, in fact, Goldman Sachs is seeing record profits thanks to the bailout money and they're still being awarded free money from the government to help do things like build a new headquarters in New York City. Health care is still a mess. Student loans are still a mess. The economy is still a mess. All the homeland security laws are still in place.
I cannot, with fair conscious, cast a vote for someone who's warchest is bankrolled 1/3 by the financial industry after they were last time around 'awarded' a bailout for giving to his campaign. Who knows what Obama will think he 'owes' them this time?
And really, did ANYTHING at all change when he came into office? Would we REALLY be worse off with someone else? It doesn't seem that way. 14,000 lobbyists control the government no mater who is in office. The troop withdrawals and surges are exactly the same as they would have been with McCain in office. Health Care, environmental laws, labor laws, financial regulation, foreign policy, ALL exactly the same as they would have been with McCain in office. In fact, I challenge anyone to find anything good or different that came out of this term aside from the symbolism of post-racial America.
If Obama wants my vote I'll need to see lobbying laws change, citizen's united repealed, campaign finance reform manifest, and high ranking executives going to jail. Otherwise he's not only NOT getting my vote, I'm going to evangelize to liberals, moderates, and democrats to avoid the vote in protest. At least that way all the money the financial sector has donated to his campaign will be a wasted effort on their part and hopefully whoever does end up in office is a little less in their pocket.
I have no intentions of voting for any of the idiots the rethugli-cons have running, thank you.
Were do you get your information? Or, should I ask what orifice did you pull this stuff from?
@ Harvey Lo
Care to tell of a candidate that's not a complete idiot or wacko? I dislike Obama immensely, but he's got a fiscal approach that I agree with a heck of a lot more than the morons churning out on the Right.
Ron Paul is nuts, contradicts himself routinely, and anyone with even a modicum of economics background sees that his "government is the root of all economic problems" is hogwash. Ron Paul clearly isn't old enough to remember the robber baron days of the early 1900's, nor the abuses and hazards in food and medicine before the creation of the FDA by Teddy Roosevelt.
Romney is a sycophant who will placate to however many wealthy interest groups can shove money into his campaigns (and pockets?) the fastest! No thanks. He's just as delusional as Ron Paul, but is able to put a better spin and doesn't come across as much of a crackpot. Romney is Bush Jr. on steroids in terms of a failed fiscal policy...he's got the NeoCon's fox-henhouse economic strategy down pat however!
Cain is just a bad choice...he takes the "don't know, don't care" attitude that Bush did as President, but without the Harvard education to even understand where his cabinet (and VP?) is going to completely manipulate him and sell this country down the river to the highest bidder like has been happening since Nixon.
Perry IS W. He shows little difference as far as I'm concerned...same wealthy constituency, same sellout to big business, same fundamentalist religious zealot, just as bad at debate, etc.
Bachman is crazy like Palin and equally a sellout as McCain. No one can stand behind her for any length of time because of how completely asinine most of her campaign has been. She can't hide how crazy she is for any extended period of time, even when she stumbles on a good point (like the attack on Perry's association with the Gardasil manufacturer). I have nightmares of a zealous person like Bachman or Perry making it into power, they would steer the country into an abyss without a second thought, and lack the ethical compass to even regret it.
In the meantime, Obama is an idiot.
I dislike his foreign policy towards Israel and Palestine, I'm disgusted by his decision to waste all of his political capital to push through healthcare reform (which was anything but) when it should have been used on improving the economy, dismantle the lobbies and interest groups plaguing Capitol Hill and bringing the perpetrators of the financial meltdown to justice, as well as charge charging people with war-crimes for their actions during the Bush Administration.
Additionally, I'm disgusted that Obama couldn't/didn't rein-in his own party on Senate/Congressional proposals, instead letting zealots in his own party play political games to lose any chance of attracting moderate republicans (Reid, Pelosi, Frank, etc.'s activities during Obama's early years are good examples). I'm equally aggravated at Obama pretending that illegal immigration isn't a problem and working tirelessly to s-can states' attempts to protect their local budgets against the drain of supporting a shadow-class of workers.
But...I'm still voting for Obama...why? Simple...Republicans have chased away the moderates in their party. The only people left running on their tickets are either crazy, inept, crooked, or all of the above.
They can't even get Christie to run...perhaps he'll beat Clinton in 2016
Shadow-class. What a perfect description.
Which information are you questioning, imwhitewolf?
Everything I mentioned is a google search away- it's all quite out in the open. There are 14,000 registered lobbyists in this country - they spent 6 billion dollars lobbying through 2008-2009. This is public information.
Do a google search on Obama's donors in both campaigns.
and 'Seriously? No really...' - I didn't say I was voting for anyone else. I said I can't vote for a continuation of a system of bribes and payoffs. It's only government to the highest bidder and honestly I don't really see much difference at this point between the Dems and Republicans aside from smoke and mirrors social issues like abortion and gun control - neither of which will change much whoever is elected. I agree there is nobody out there to vote for and it will remain that way since whoever we vote for is stuck in this sold out system and is more interested in fundraising for the elections 'money race' than actually doing anything meaningful in office.
I'll vote for legislation that reforms campaign finance or for people who back it and aren't just blowing out empty promises. I'll vote for any measure to end Corporate Personhood or any person who intends to sincerely address it. I'll vote for commonsense measure to curb lobbying and I'll vote for the repeal of the Citizen's United decision. --I'm done putting my faith in people. I want to see laws changed to rain this in. I'm done with the Republicans and I'm done with the democrats. Lobbyists work on both sides. They don't care which party they need to approach. And here is the real shocker - a large percentage of legislation, floor speeches, and statements that are entered into congress are not written by members of congress, but by Lobbyists. Yes, lobbyists WRITE laws. Why? Because or legislators don't have time to because they're too busy trying to keep with their competitors in the money arms race for reelection. There is no moral justification for that and it doesn't do any of us any good. It's corruption. It's cheating. See the documentary called 'The Best Government Money Can Buy'. It's shocking. No one can even enter a race with the backing of at least a few lobby groups. Politicians and politicians-to-be know this. It is the system. It isn't about us and it never has been. We don't really have a choice. Whatever we say or do can be out bought by a lobbyist campaign -right down to saturating the public with media campaigns designed in test market groups to sways people's opinions.
Oh poor babies! Last week you were all praising the end of the hard times and the good times ahead, with Dumbama and Democrats. Told you at that time it is just a flash and nothing cured by this useless administration!!!
ah Kiwi it was a record Month!! One day does not mean anything!!! Let the good times role !! (for the 1%)
Let's raise taxes on the profits made on Wall Street this month. Maybe just maybe we could start to pay for some new bridges, highway resurfacing, improved schools, more teachers. You name it.
Wasn't it just the other day, the MessNBC cheerleader squad was chanting Obama's praises that we'd turned the corner? How could this be??
did you read all of the Headlines? Record Month ??
Does this mean that OWS is actually the epic FAIL that we suspected? Yep
LOL!
Wall Street is one big ugly note and if you add in all the Washington prostitutes it employs you've got a whole symphony. The ratbags at the extended criminal conspiracy that is Wall Street are piling up all the gold they can before the whole system collapses under the weight of a $250 $trillion house-of-cards derivatives scam which will collapse at the first whiff of inflation or just a few ripples outa Europe as the Euro dies. If your pension plan invests in anything other than gold or silver you'd better have a really good Plan B. Derivatives in the last collapse totaled less than half the current scams. Millions of innocents were destroyed in the 2008 derivatives collapse but the butt !#$!&%s on Wall Street came out just fine and none of 'em went to jail, which is where they would be if there was a God.
P.S. Ever wonder why the U.S. gets into so many wars? Besides the obvious giant war-generated no-bid contracts Wall Street loves? To forecast where the U.S. is going to war just listen to which countries start mumbling about starting their own gold- or silver-based currencies. Ghadafi was talking about a gold dinar and the U.S. replaced him with Islamist al qaeda types(!) Mexico has been talking about silver pesos and the U.S. sent 'em enough guns to ensure domestic tragedy for a decade to come (can't really attack 'em directly.) In a related note Hugo C. of Venezuela is trying to repatriate 99 tons of gold from London bankers and another 10 tons from a New York banker whose physical reserves consist of.... 10 tons. Stay tuned.
keep up the good work...thanks for telling the truth
More money for the 1% and less money for the 99. They post these articles like we're supposed to be overjoyed by this informations. See these newsites are programed to play up the stock market and Wall Street as we all know. Less about stock gains and more truth about what that means for the increasingly less fortunate. Its too bad that there are so many brainwashed people making remarks about the OWS being a failure. Won't they be amused when the movement succeeds, cause they might just actually benefit from it. Oh and don't forget to close your banking aco@!$%#s with BofA, JPMorgan Chase and Wells Fargo as soon as you can, cause they are going down. Seven of my close friends closed their accounts today with all three and transfered to a local credit union or community bank in the area. The people will take back what's theirs and the status quo will crash and burn.
The orchestrated wipe out continues.....everyone just bailed from the bond markets after a beheading in there, then all flew into the stock markets, JUST TO BE BEHEADED AGAIN....LOL....MAN ALL I CAN SAY....what a bunch of idiots!!!! LMAO
what ?? the equity markets are through the roof!!
Wall St made our beds, now we all have to lie in them.
They off course get to sleep on the best no matter what catastrophy they create.
I wish I was a Wall St bank so I could act like scum and be treated like royalty.
Don't forget your Bail Out !
.
Aw poor 1% babys glad they had a record month!! Cut their taxes for Xmas!!
Logic on the Left is missing here.
In case you libs on here missed what is going on in Congress,, Obama and Reid have the Right blocked. Good ole Harry Reid blocks any meaningful legislation to help the economy and the National Debt issues. If any of you actually believe the Super 12 will pass anything, you are badly mistaken.
I believe the House offered 17 pieces of legislation that would move us forward , including a Balanced Budget Amendment that would cripple the Lobbyists. But Obama and Reid will block anything that resembles economic sanity ,,, and there is ZERO chance of Obama's Jobs Bill passing ,, even among Democrats because they know it cannot be funded .
Even Clinton who is a real Mule,, said raising taxes is crazy during a Recession. And if you think the Recession is over ,, put your money in the market .
Moody's has already decided to downgrade the US Credit Rating ,, mark that up as the ONLY 2 Times we have been downgraded and it is under Obama,, you know,, the " Who Needs To Pass A Budget Idiot ".
If you really give a damn about reducing Wall Street and Lobbyist Influence,, then you have to change the Tax Code -- The Fair Tax, The Flat Tax or the 9-?-9 plan preposed by Cain can all be workable,,, but if you think we can stick with our present system of taxes,, you are crazy.
While Obama and Reid keep looking for methods to increase the National Debt and Spending,, the Republicans are putting ideas on the Table,, and Reid won't even discuss the ideas. He prefers to continue to push Obama's lunatic ideas of Big Tax , Big Spend, Big Government.. Even the Mule, Bill Clinton stated clearly ,, the Era of Big Government is OVER,,, unfortunately ,, Bush wasn't smart enough to realize Clinton had the right idea,, though bill raised taxes as the Technology Boom ended.
Clinton had nothing to do with the prosperity of the 90s and nothing to do with the Tech Crash,, it was all timing... If you really believe that Greece, Italy and Spain won't fail,,, and drag this country with them into the gutter,,, then you are a Day Dreaming Socialist.
I at least give Seriously = No kudos for admitting Obama is an idiot,,, even though he claims he will vote for an idiot..
Any one of the top 4 Republicans would be 100% better for America as President that Obama . How badly does a President have to fail for a Liberal to realize and admit that this is not a country that Socialism will work in ,, even though the Democrats have gone further and further LEFT since Woodrow Wilson began the Liberal Progressive Dream.
My God,, look at history folks,, the LIberals destroy the country every time they get control !
forget Obama and for sure "Cain mutiny" Mitt 2012
I at least give Seriously = No kudos for admitting Obama is an idiot,,, even though he claims he will vote for an idiot..
Any one of the top 4 Republicans would be 100% better for America as President that Obama . How badly does a President have to fail for a Liberal to realize and admit that this is not a country that Socialism will work in ,, even though the Democrats have gone further and further LEFT since Woodrow Wilson began the Liberal Progressive Dream.
My God,, look at history folks,, the LIberals destroy the country every time they get control !
Your timeline is a little off.
But there's not much point in debating with you until you can substantiate ANY of your points with actual facts.
First off, how are the idiots, shills and numbskulls running on the Republican ticket going to be better than Obama?...provide actual reasons both where Obama has gone wrong and where your candidate of choice has the proper alternative and WHY.
The GOP contenders haven't made one proposal that is going to pull this country out of debt, or even deficit spending! Romney's 20% plan is ridiculous because he allows an opt out into the current tax code that the sophisticated have already got nice loopholes through.
Cain's 9-9-9 is nonsense and doesn't even bring in enough revenue to cover the necessities, not to mention how multinational corporations get away with paying less than that in taxes already, why should they be willing to pony up even 9% if the likes of GE, Google, Exxon, etc. can get away with paying as little as 2% or even getting more money back than they pay out?!
Perry just wants to slash and burn all social safety nets for the young, and his stance on separation of church and state is scary.
Bachman is a non-starter and Paul is so far off the deep end with lofty assumptions and deeply flawed fundamental economic principles that it's not worth debating every facet.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for your timeline:
->Care to discuss how much crap Reagan put the US into, letting his VP clean up some of the mess and eat the s-sandwich that was left, ruining much of his chances of re-election?
->Care to discuss ANY of the positive policies of the Clinton administration?
->Care to discuss ANY of the fiscal and foreign policy nightmares of the Bush Jr. administration?
->Care to discuss ANY of the fiscal policies of the Obama administration that you can both describe accurately and disagree with?
So far, many of the trolls only seem to take the antithesis of the above bullets, waxing poetic about Reagan while neglecting to discuss "amnesty" or "savings & loan". Always talking about the sex scandal with Clinton and never discussing his work on anti-trust and creating a positive budget surplus. Completely glossing over (or just briefly admitting) all of the failed fiscal policies of the Bush Jr. administration, then turning right back around and supporting a candidate that seeks to take Bush Jr's terrible fiscal policies and expand them further!
I'm open for alternatives besides Obama, but I'm not thrilled with any of the GOP contenders, and I'm not confident that any of the reasonable suggestions that they propose are things that they would even bother with when in power.