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Martin Barraud / Getty Images/OJO Images
By Eve Tahmincioglu
Women, it seems, still can’t get a leadership break.
For years now, the number of women in positions of power in corporate America has been stagnant, with gals unable to break 20 percent of the executive officer positions or corporate board seats.
If you read the career advice out there you’d think it’s all the fault of women themselves and not the entrenched gender bias in the workplace.
The thinking is that women don’t want it enough. They’re not doing the right things to get to the top. They’re slowing down their career to raise families.
Turns out, this may be nothing more than corporate mythology.
A study by research firm Catalyst has found that women with MBAs who are considered high potential are using all the right career strategies to get ahead, but the pay and promotion gap still exists. Conventional wisdom that says women are failing to negotiate for themselves, opting out, or putting the skids on careers for family are all bunk, according to the findings.
“It’s really time for organizations to stop assuming that these myths are true and look at what’s going on in terms of their talent management systems,” said Christine Silva, senior director of research for Catalyst.
The report -- which studied more than 3,000 male and female MBAs who stayed on a “traditional” career path and were working full time -- broke down the participants into four strategy profiles:
- “Climbers,” who are actively seeking to advance in a company.
- “Hedgers,” who are looking for advancement inside and outside their existing employers.
- “Scanners,” who are looking for future prospects in the job market.
- “Coasters,” who are not actively using career-enhancing tactics.
It found that male hedgers got the biggest advancement rewards for their efforts -- twice as much as female hedgers.
Compared to other men, male hedgers had advanced furthest, getting more of a payoff for employing both internally and externally focused advancement strategies, followed by male climbers, coasters and scanners.
For women it was a different story.
Not only did they lag male hedgers in advancement, there was no difference among female hedgers, climbers or scanners. While women in the hedgers group did advance further than coasters -- women doing comparatively less to get ahead -- being proactive didn’t provide as great an advantage for women hedgers as it did for male hedgers.
Here’s an overview of the four realities women face when it comes to advancement, according to the study:
1. Doing All the Right Things Does Not Level the Playing Field for Women
Among much of career advancement advice out there, the employee who is seen as having the most potential to advance into the leadership ranks typically has certain characteristics, according to Catalyst researchers, including everything from actively seeking high-profile assignments to learning the political landscape or unwritten rules of an company.
Unfortunately, such traits don’t help women as much as men.
The study found that:
“Men benefited more than women when they adopted the proactive strategies of the proverbial ideal worker. Even when women used the same career advancement strategies -- doing all the things they have been told will help them get ahead -- they advanced less than their male counterparts and had slower pay growth.”
While career strategies didn’t benefit women as much as men, the tactics that were among the most effective career strategies for women overall, said Silva, were:
- Making their achievements known.
- Getting access to powerful and influential others.
2. Women Are Not Seeking Slower Tracks
The researchers looked at women and men who aspired to get to the top of organizations and found there was no evidence women were seeking slower tracks than men. They found overall that women were less satisfied with their career trajectory and compensation, and that these women were not intentionally slowing down their careers but wanting more.
The study found:
- Even among the most and least proactive, men were more satisfied with their advancement than were women.
- Women were also less satisfied than men with their salary and rate of compensation growth. This holds when comparing women and male hedgers, scanners, and coasters.
The findings suggest, the authors surmised, that “women likely were not seeking out lower-paying career tracks and, therefore, accepting of and satisfied with their lower compensation. Rather, they likely were less satisfied with their salary and compensation growth when they compared themselves to others in their field and at their level.”
3. Men Are Paid for Potential While Women are Paid for (Proven) Performance
It’s often thought that leaving one employer for another will help accelerate pay, but this doesn’t seem to hold true for women, according to the data.
Men who left their employer say their compensation grew more than men who stayed with the company they first joined after getting their MBAs.
On average, men who were at their second post-MBA employer earned $13,743 more by 2008 than those who stayed with their first-post MBA employer.
But for women there was no difference in compensation growth between women who left their jobs and those who stayed. Among women job-hoppers, compensation growth was $53,472 less than for women who were still with their first employer. Silva said this is evidence that men are generally paid for their potential, but women have to prove they can do the job.
4. Women Do Ask, But Asking Doesn’t Close the Gap
There was little difference in the negotiating habits of men and women in the study, with 47 percent of women and 52 percent of men reporting they had asked for more money during the hiring process.
The overarching message of the research, said Silva, is “organizations have a responsibility to figure out where unintentional biases exist.”
While everyone is focused on the glass ceiling phenomenon, she continued, few realize how disparities in pay and rank among men and women when they’re in lower level positions ends up dooming many women later in their careers because they may never catch up.
Another issue is women themselves. Many may not realize they face discrimination and as a result may not be fighting for equal opportunities, according to another recently released study by the Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern University titled “Opting Out or Denying Discrimination? How the Framework of Free Choice in American Society Influences Perceptions of Gender Inequality.”
Nicole Stephens, assistant professor of management and organizations at Kellogg who co-authored the report, said women have the choice today to either stay in the workforce or opt out for personal reasons, and that choice may be lulling them into a false sense of career equity.
“But were their choices really desirable?” she asked.
That in turn perpetuates a male model in the workplace, she maintained, and the assumption that one person, the man, is going to be the breadwinner and the woman typically has one foot heading out the door. That mentality, she stressed, is what often leads to the pay and advancement inequality.
“By calling something a choice,” she added. “It makes people think there really isn’t a problem here that needs to be fixed.”
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45 years of working with, for, around, Supervising and Managing woemen and well, some were good and some were very bad, especially those in Superviory and or Management positions who developed "Queendoms" within the Organization contrary to working towards the goals of the company, instead the Drones worked towards the personal goals of the Queen Bee and therefore was and were a major detraction and distraction and liablity to the Organization which usually resulted in many Personnel Issues and eventually developing and creating hostile work environments amongst the Drones and with other Departments within the Organization.
I found the problem in the Military as well, woemen seem to be more concerned about creating a group of loyal drones than the overal needs of the Unit or the Organization.
I never worked for a good, decent, honest, hard working, loyal to the company female Supervisor or Manager in all my years of work. Enough said!
And men never create little "kingdoms?" Please.
"I never worked for a good, decent, honest, hard working, loyal to the company female Supervisor or Manager in all my years of work. Enough said!"
Bummer...while I've had a couple of female bosses who were a drag on the company/employees, the number of bright, energetic, forward-thinking women I've worked for far outnumber the marginal ones...and a couple of those have made it to the Chief (insert title here) Officer or VP rank (deservedly so, IMHO)...
When I look back at all the female managers/supervisors I've been under, it's amazing to note that all the "good" ones happened to be post-menopausal.
Eddie: and I'll bet you think that assessment about your vast experience speaks to the women you've unfortunately come in contact with rather than your own prejudices. Let's just hope you have no daughters.
Perhaps, Eddie, you has the misfortune to work for a company that actively promoted women they knew would fail! I used to work for such a company - a large, aerospace company, made up primarily of engineers and good old boys. When they had to promote a woman, they deliberately chose one they knew would be bad, so they could smile and state with smug satisfaction that they tried, and women just couldn't handle it. Fortunately, a few good women got in, and then more and more, and by the time I retired, there were several good women supervisors, and now there are several good women execs. It's a good thing, too. Because the boys of this country don't want to work, they want to spend all day with their beloved Gameboys.
Well said eddie. I have noticed the same exact thing. On many occasions.
Meg Whitman sure hasn't hit that glass ceiling
"This study shows that"
actually means
"After manipulating the numbers and choosing the statistical tests that support my biased point of view, while ignoring or omitting possible evidence to the contrary, I subjectively report that"
Researchers, like journalists, are biased. But, researchers will honestly report the data they gathered, so we readers may draw our own conclusions from them.
This journalist has not provided a link to the study, so we can only hear these so-called "facts" as she sees fit. Considering that this journalist is female, and is therefore in her interest to report what she perceives is sexism in the workplace, this whole article has absolutely no merit, unless we are provided with a means to see that original study.
There should be a few psychological questions when it comes to choosing who would be a competent manager or boss, and not "who's next in line" or someone who got there through seniority.
I work in Information Technology, and we need to 'house' with allot of sensitive information regarding the employees day to day computer usage, HR information, etc. When it comes to bosses/managers, it seems the Female tends to be irrational and "out to get" the employee, simply because they either don't like their attitude or Whatever.
My point is, instead of trying to reason logically, they tend to reason more on their emotions.
This can be Very dangerous...
Women see everything as a bias or a slight. They are good at certain jobs, but leadership positions aren't it. Mainly because men have no interest in listening to incompetence.
Why does everyone continue to say that we need JOBS?????
WE DON'T NEED JOBS, WE NEED OUR OWN BUSINESSES!!!!!
In nearly every industry in our economy corporations own more than 80% of market segments on average in all industries.
Corporate Monopoly - when a group of corporations own more than 75% of the market segment in an industry not leaving any room for individual owners.
PEOPLE, THIS IS WHY THE 1% HAS ALL OF THE MONEY AND MOST CITIZENS ARE BROKE!!!!!!
If we only allow for corporations to control 40% - 50% of each industry it will leave room for soooooooo..... many to gain wealth in this country instead of being left behind.
Imagine having an opportunity to compete in the telecom industry as an individual owner or in the cable industry. We would not be in this situation.
Currently only corporations profit from these industries.
I can't ever remember receiving a check for phone service that I offered but, it would be nice.
Imagine having more than just corporate farms that produce diseased foods.
What is occurring today in our economy is the fact that our government officials are taking business opportunities away from the general public for bribe money and making it harder for individual owners to enter the market.
I call it....
Corporate Monopoly - when a group of corporations own more than 75% of the market segment in an industry not leaving any room for individual owners.
I must agree with Peel-Layer.. this country is forgetting the individual. BIG BUSINESS is the problem. But it wouldn't be if "our" government weren't spineless or thieves. Everyone of them. When are we going to "vote" these suckers out ? REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT. Neither are representing the PEOPLE! And I do have to agree with the statement that men are promoted for their potential and women are promoted for their proven work.
As any conservative would say, "the reason you are not getting these jobs is because it is your fault for being lazy and unmotivated". :/
And as any liberal would say, 'The reason I didn't get the job is because they don't like me because I'm (insert victimology label here).'
@50clockcharlie: And it would appear the liberals are right: It is because they're women that they're not getting the job.
Yeah, I know...truth has a liberal bias. Thus, we have to lie about it in order to be "fair and balanced."
What the h3ll are you talking about Brian? Your lack of coherence suggests that you are a woman with a fake male screen ID
Or perhaps by the time they get out of school they don't have any idea as to how to compete with men without relying upon Title IX and various other ways of cheating.
Women keep complaining about the alleged pay gap, but articles like this don't even bother to provide citations for it. And ultimately most of the time when you do look into it, you find that they're ignoring the bulk of the compensation package to focus on just the take home pay.
If women really want to be equal, that's going to require them to give up the special help they're getting and engage in actual honest dialog, rather than abusing the system when it suits them.
EDIT: BTW, I'm not a conservative, I've just spent way too much time in the academic system to not see through this BS.
They should get back in the kitchen and make sandwiches. (I'm kidding. It's total BS and it's a total boys club within corporations.)
"There is no glass ceiling for women. It's just a thick layer of men." Majority rules - Just like the White vs the others. Majority rule is often listed as a characteristic of democracy.
If that were true, Akinazy, there would be 6 female Supreme Court Justices, 291 female Representatives in Congress and 51 Senators. Since women make up 52% of the US population, your pithy, dismissive little statement doesn't hold.
@differnet: So, what you are saying is that this 52% voting majority of women keeps electing all the male majorities in Congress and SCOTUS?
bloggit, partly because that is what the parties present to us. You do understand how parties groom people to move up the ranks. You start on a school committee, then you run for your town or city office, then you might run for mayor and then the parties start looking around for potential statewide candidates. There is a certain profile they tend to look for and fairly often it is going to be a man. They don't say it is a man, just the dynamics of what they are looking for tend to prefer men. For escample a Military background being one of the prerequisites. Even though women make up 15% of the military, that gives male candidates the advantage. And then there is the connections and the money.... If you don't think that every member of your local school committee isn't potentially thinking about higher office, then you are kidding yourself. Serving on a school committee is your good faith time for higher office.
@bloggit:
"SCOTUS," aka the Supreme Court of the United States, is not elected. Acronyms may be fun, but... as with all things... it helps to know what you're talking about when you use them.
After almost 30 years in a senior position in a Fortune 500 company it is clear to me that men are evaluated, and if selected for advancement are given training and support in the areas in which they are lacking. Women only make it to the "selected for advancement" group if it is impossible to hold them back. Unless they are extremely proactive and insistent (running the risk of getting labeled a bitch or worse) they do not get the continuing opportunities, training and support that are routinely provided to the men. Once selected, men keep advancing unless they screw up REALLY badly. Women only keep advancing if they never make a single mistake - in either their work or their people skills. I took early retirement - after doing my job fabulously/above and beyond/work horse/powerhouse/go to person for difficult assignments according to every single one of my reviews - the year I got the same bonus as a guy who made a really stupid, inattentive $2 million mistake. Unfortunately, I never got the hang of standing at the coffee maker/water cooler/chatting up atractive folks of the opposite sex all day long. I wish I thought some of what I used to do has landed on the guy's desk, but I doubt it, because everyone knows he would just screw it up. It happens all the time - women do the work, men get the pay. I'm working for myself now and highly recommend it to all women.
I agree. Go to work for yourself and create your own corporate environment. Stop expecting others to notice you. Recognize yourself!
It happens all the time - women do the work, men get the pay. I'm working for myself now and highly recommend it to all women.
Your quote says it all about your attitude. maybe it was that attitude that held you back. Maybe not. But I am glad to see that you are running your own business now because success or failure is all on your shoulders and there is nobody else to blame for the success or failure.
Women who don't have kids earn as much as men do. Women who work high stress jobs have heart problems just like men. Overtime is kryptonite to women. I know several men who had regularly worked 60+ hour weeks but not a single woman. Each pregnancy will put a womans career back 6 months with your light duty, slow moveing and maternaity leave if performance is evaluated. No commisions while you are sitting at home on leave not even able to click a mouse telecomuteing. Go to the beach and you will see guys still leashed to their office with wireless internet. Do you really want to be an on call administrater and get a call about a problem at 1am on a friday night that has to be resolved. You know that the first woman to make it to the top gets queen bee syndrom and sabatoges other women so she can stay queen. Women love to join a chatting circle and ignore work.
People tend to advance those who look like themselves or people they desire.
I am a highly paid professional. I am also a male. I am only 38 years old, but I would never take a position where I would have to answer to a woman. I don't dislike them, and they are just as equally entitled to my disdain as a man, but it is a sign of weakness to be subservient to a woman. That is an unfortunate truth that is shared by men throughout the world. And no matter how biased you make classrooms, where girls are encouraged and promoted before boys, it always will remain a truth.
Joe: come on...you can't be 38. You sound like you were born in the '40's. What will always remain the truth is the sense of inferiority you display. If you were secure, you wouldn't be afraid of being seen as being "subservient." 38??
AP-
Wow, what a zinger! I have no inferiority. I live in a free country where I can make my own choices. Just like you. I regret that my viewpoints insult your sensibilities, but mind you, I am not seeking to persecute or hold anyone back. I simply stated my opinions, and you are certainly free to disagree. But yes, I am 38 (ie born in 1973), the product of an inner city school system, from a blue-collar family, and - gasp - a white male. So work for who you want, and I will work for who I want. Peace.
I'm male, 30, and I've worked for two female C_Os including my current one. Good to know I won't be competing with joe and his ilk for jobs.
Atheismo-
Don't flatter yourself - you can't compete with me.
No need joe, where I work chauvinistic misanthropes never make it further than the mail room. And they all have a similarly high opinion of themselves.
I don't hold it against them (or you), but if you can't work with people of all stripes, you can rest assured that you won't be charged with managing them.
But you will be able to nurse your superiority complex (and bad attitude) in peace.
Good luck to you! You'll need it.
Interesting comments. I've been with my company for almost 25 years and the best two managers I've ever had were women. A great manager is a great manager regardless of sex or race...
Women are everywhere in management. Most I've worked with in hi-tech are treating the staff like little family mommy-and-me sessions. I loved it! Once you recognize that they didn't get their jobs on talent and they need a lot of time away for children things, you have no problems. Smile; make nice with everyone (especially her husband, significant other or both); attend a boatload of meetings; suggest a boatload of meetings; make team-building session suggestions and treat everything like it is a family matter. You won't have to produce. You can have all kinds of paid time off as long as you time your absence with hers'.
but you presumably DID get your job on "talent"?? LOL. You write like a 5th grader...I don't think so.
Never interupt a women chatting cirle to bring up work that needs to be done or something that needs to be done in a timely manner. Overtime is kryptonite towards women its amazing how much work can get done by the all male frat party on the weekend.
@7.1, linguistic profiling? Seriously, do you really expect to be taken seriously when you engage in that sort of bigoted trolling?
And some of us find out too late that our boss is actually a mysoginistic bastard who has been consciously undermining our career while telling us he's a big supporter. Hard to 'advance' when you've got a 2-faced SOB blocking you.
That's right, because only women have to deal with two-faced SOB's who would throw you under the bus for their own benefit, right? Guess what? It's always been that way - we males just never had the persecuted female card to play. You women wanted in the game, so here it is! Welcome to the jungle. Perhaps it is more than misogyny - perhaps it is misanthropy. Stop playing the victim, and figure out how to get where you want.
Joe, I'm not going to address your fear of working for women. We all have our unexplained fears. But you ask an interesting question. Is it misogyny, or misanthropy that keeps women from the corner office? The business world has always been cutthroat and yes, women need to get used to that. But are women playing the victim or are they real victims of discrimination? The competition is tough when it comes to getting to the top. Men had enough deal with keeping other men from getting these coveted leadership positions. Now women want a piece of the action so the competition is even fiercer. Since women are not members of the entrenched power in Corporate America, aren't they at a disadvantage? And if so, does that make them victims of both misanthropy and misogyny, aka: misanthrosogyny?
@Eve: I don't know, but I love the new word!
I thought it had a nice, or not so nice, ring to it. ;-)
why do you women (or wussy men) assume that Joe's statements come from a position of weakness or fear? They don't. They come from a simply stated, honest position based on a rational assessment of the world that is. If you have a different viewpoint, fine. But attacking his perspective as though it comes from a delusional mind just shows your own naivete.
Advice for women who believe they are being passed over:
Get physically fit and trim (if not already) by dieting, working out at a gym and in sports;
Use minimal makeup, and wear conservative jewelry and modern, professional clothes (dress like the position you want to be in);
Skip perfume and if you must, wear a light scented lotion, and manicure should be professional, short, and within a couple shades of skin color;
Talk very little about your family, friends, hobbies, weekends, and personal problems... have an excellent back-up system for child care, sick care, etc.;
Show up earlier at work, always look busy, and don't leave early (occasionally work late when it will be noticed);
Don't socialize with the lower-ranking women, although you can mentor them on the side... you don't want to look like you're part of the office girls' club;
Continuously upgrade your computer skills and take every useful educational opportunity... plus ensure that your writing and speaking skills are top notch and error-free;
Don't bring up problems to your boss unless you can also offer possible solutions;
Make your boss look good to his/her boss or the company;
Ask for MORE than you think you are worth or are qualified for and don't give up easily if you're turned down.
Unfortunately, everything you said is true.
Unfortunately, it's also a prime example why American corporate management culture is so incredibly dysfunctional and utterly useless.
tmadison....and do all that to make themselves more palatable and what would change? Read the study again. I think you missed a few obvious conclusions.
Those are all good tips for men, too. Makeup may not be an issue, but keep the ostentation down.
The men can take from this also from the areas that fit like keeping fir and not being a complainer. Dr Phils Book says you either get or you don't. You learn your environment and then do something about it. A few extra minutes a day will usually payoff. Especially being in early and taking on projects that help and noonelse wants. Do you want the job of advancement or not. It is also a job that requires your focus and work!
.
Women deserve a chance just as the men. They creat, bring different points of view, want to help the company, and have the potential to bring this country out of Recession! Switch this issue and the CEO's will see their profits soar through the help of their women employees and diverse population!
Stats don't back that up. Women CEOs perform poorly across all metrics.
Actually, from what I have read, while women CEOs are different, they do not perform poorly compared to men.
Here's how it works: When a man's in charge, the highs are way higher and the lows are way lower. Record profits all over the place...and record crashes as well. They take big risks, which sometimes pay off, and sometimes don't.
When a woman's in charge, the peak performance isn't as high, but the lowest dips aren't as low, either. They tend to be more conservative in their strategies and it smooths out the curves.
I think these studies should get at the real draining issues and that is the cost of wars denying employees from raises to move the economy!
Blah blah blah. I'm so tired of hearing how women have it bad. Guess what...the majority of people going to college and getting degrees nowadays are women. They have become the dominant force in education.
But its hard to find jobs with a degree in bitter womens studies
I'll give this to Palin. She learned how to get out of the low income and moves to be a millionare
Women need to think and act more with the left side of their brains to move on up.
It's actually left brain thinking that helps you move on up, not the right brain.
And women need to get rid of their relational aggression in the workforce.
Sure men gossip, but they're more concerned with which VP's contract is soon to run out than who's sleeping with whom and what they're wearing.
There's no getting around it; you can't expect to leave the workforce and return at a higher rate of pay and faster advancement. Others have been there working hard to advance while you've been out.
Left side right side Realllllllly! Just simply do the job do more, expand your knowledge, look the part, . The other stuff that you think not appropriate..then don't do it. Pouring your gossip out to everyone a sure way to get axed!
Carmen, did you READ the article. The article is about the fact that when women DO all the things that are recommended, they still aren't moving up. They do their job. They ask for the promotions. They network. They perform. And still they don't move. READ THE FREAKING ARTICLE.
That's so true Carmen for women who leave the workplace. But this study looked at women who didn't opt out or cut back their hours for family obligations. This compared apples to apples, ambitious men to ambitious women, both of which stayed in the workplace and utilized all the same tools to get ahead. In the end, it was the men who still came up on top.
differnet,
Maybe that's the problem. No one set of rules work for everyone. True leaders do what works for them without having to read it from some book or an expert's advice. It's like a book on how to get rich. It won't make you an instant millionaire.
Oh, so Jobseeker, we now reach the point where people claim it's a magical equation and if women can't somehow magically figure it out they should just lay back and take it. Wonderful. Hey Jobseeker, let's guess why you are a jobSEEKER, didn't get the memo on that secret either I see.
differnet,
Can you discuss without personal smears? I said no one set of rules guarantees success for everyone. How did you get "let's just lay back and take it" out of that? Just because someone follows A, B and C doesn't mean she should be a boss, and any other outcome must be discrimination. I have a job, thank you, a very good one. Chemical engineer. What do you do for a living, may I ask?
I was trying to make a point that if you don't know the secret, then how are you supposed to figure it out?! I've seen the frustration of people who were seeking a job. They've done everything right and still.... Your earlier posting bascially dismisses the article's point. Women ARE doing everything that recommended and they are stuck. But instead of admitting that there is institutional gender bias, you come up with a crap excuse that it's some mystical something that they just need to individually figure out. It's GENDER BIAS. But you can't swallow that can you?
Your remarks are full of incorrect generalizations.
I don't know seems men are more easily influenced by the brain "down there" in many circumstances.
I've been around numerous male coworkers' at different companies and alot of their conversations have been about scrutinizing their female coworkers' body, appearance, etc... Who's hot, who's not, etc..
Look like you need to get out in the real world more.
Gender bias is a copout. My project manager is a woman. My department head is a woman. The CADD department head is a woman. And since the makeup of the office is about 80% men, I say we need affirmative action for men :)
Oh.. so statistics don't matter. Only your experience matters, right JobSeeker. Would you buy that when it came to chemistry? Wow, I give you a 10 for mental gymnastics.
The only thing these women are doing wrong is not being male.
differnet,
Do you have back problems with that chip on your shoulder? Most women I know who are up to the job get promoted. The rest just complain and demand government intervention. Which are you? You still haven't told me what you do for a living since you mocked my employment status.
Job seeker: man, talk about having a chip on your shoulder. What a silly post
I'm an administrator at a university Job. I have lots of students come to me all the time - male and female. And yes, we do see that males automatically get higher job offers than a woman with even a slightly better gpa and research performance as they get placement. I primarly work with students getting science and engineering degrees. My advice to my female students is take the job offer with the most money, but it will have a bigger impact for the rest of their life than that of their male counterparts. I think if anyone has a chip, Job, it's you. You fear aggressive women.
PS, Job. I've outranked my husband while we were in the military together. I've made men cry. I've out run them, out shot them and generally out performed them most of my life. I get it. A woman who is a tiger frightens the crap out of them, so they cry "She's mean. She's bitter. She's angry." No, I'm forceful. But that's scary for a lot of guys. Instead of demanding what we want, women end up manipulating and then men whine about that too. We have an old saying in the military, "Lead, follow or get the f*ck out of the way." Personally, I've never been a follower and I sure and the heck have never stood on the sidelines.
I have really enjoyed working underneath the female managers I have worked for. They were great bosses who always stuck up for their people.
One problem may be that they are "too nice" and more interested in people than their own advancement.
I have it made, I work for a great female boss, great male boss, and great folks all around. Gender makes no difference; we are all happy doing what we like, and I'm advancing along nicely. I wish all folks could forget the gender crap and look at the mission they are collectively aiming towards.
I think you get it. I'll bet you also have a Masters and keep yourself looking the part! Look like, talk like, and act like your important!
If your company has a Charity Ball go to it. Yes Pay the 400 for you and your companion and go to it. Be seen, visible, happy, know a few things the company is thinking about and then if the chance arrises talk about them. Introduce yourself and know your top manager audience. Kinda of know if possible what they do outside of work and just mention the same. There are many ways to get at advancement. Those who take the less traveled road are more likely to be seen and promoted!
...blah, blah, blah..........it always looks easy when the white male is doing it, but then you try to do it yourself.........different story, right?.....
No works for all genders and nationalities! Bet you haven't tried it. When you do it has a payback rate of around 65%.
One woman said whatever section I was in always seemed to have it easy, and ascribed it to luck. I told her my secret "don't spend 20 min. on the clock eating breakfast and work instead"
Ladies, mangement is not what all it cracked up to be. It limits your job opportunites, keeps you up at nights, have to deal with jerks all the time and you get gray quicker. But if you still want it, try working overtime and weekends when the boss ask you to when an important deadline is approaching. Maybe it's just in my line of work, but whenever I work late into the night, on weekends and holidays, I don't see too many women.
And dress for the job. Dressing up, making up and showing cleavage like you're going to a party tend to make people take you less serious.
Cleavage gets you the job in my neck of the woods - and I mean IT industry. It's out of control. All these ladies have done is bitch bitch bitch. And it's working.
LOl!! great argument. You really don't WANT the responsibility "ladies"...
"getting hosed"....I'm sure the women just beat a path to your door!!...what a great guy you must be with all that baggage....This really isn't about your inability to get laid.
Getting laid isn't difficult in today's society. Women will fight each other to see who the bigger skank can be.
Well, around here you have to be a black female to make it. Here in this organization are four black directors. None have higher than a 12th grade education. Here in my little office are 3 white females (administrative/clerical). Two have bachelor's in business and one has a master's in accounting, shuffling and bowing to a black female director who has a high school diploma and black friends in high places. How does this happen we ask? Well, we can't say.
Are you sure you're in the Ozarks? Sound like San Francisco. That would be typical here.
What a CROCK! Okay - then come to Boulder County Colorado - ALL the managers are women. I mean that. I have not worked for a man in 20 years.
This is more squeaky wheel BS. Women are doing just fucRing fine.
I'm wondering where all these "wonderful" women are who are being passed over for leadership. I'm in my 50s and NEVER have experienced working with ANY woman who was "passed over" for anything! In fact, any female who couldn't advance...well it was no surprise to ME that she couldn't and it had MINIMALLY to do with "old boys' clubs" or anything like it. A lot of women are in management nowadays and are causing MORE problems than they are solving! EVERYTHING is political to them and they are only interested in promoting the brown-nose, kiss-a**, b*****s like themselves. If you are complaining about a situation in the workplace most FEMALE managers are unwilling to do ANYTHING other than whine, simper and shine you on. I'd LOVE to know who all these women were that Pro-life Activist worked for "who always stuck up for people". Sounds like females from some alien planet or like the real ones were invaded by body snatchers.
If you have a MALE supervisor it's up for grabs whether anything will be done or not, because most men seem to think women causing problems for other women are just a bunch of "catfights" going on. In other words, women have caused women AND men to think problems for women in the workplace are trivial/bogus. If you're FEMALE you need to just focus on the damned job, mind your own business and start acting like a professional. It isn't your living room, bedroom or your kitchen. We are not your family, despite your attempts to make it so. STOP THE DAMNED WHINING. Other women are sick of your self-appointedness and the fact that some of you have crowned yourselves Queen of all the Women in the Workplace. Guess what? THERE IS NO SUCH TITLE! It's the 21st Century and if you can't balance work and home life, that is YOUR problem! Get your own damn lunch, make your own damned personal appointments and find competent childcare! Tell HUBBY to do HIS share and have teachers and doctors call HIM for a change. If this is not possible for you, then YOU figure out how not to be "mommy-tracked". Employers can't take responsibility for EVERYONE's personal problems.
Can you figure out a way to be at work and at home at the same time? If you can't, you've got no beef! Employers shouldn't be expected to pay you a full-time salary for part-time work....and guess what? Your admin doesn't want to be DUMPED ON either! He/she ALSO has personal/family needs to attend to and those needs DON'T include you!
Do you really think you deserve $150K a year position when you simply MUST be at the daycare center to pick up your kid by 6:00? If so, why?? What makes YOU so special?? Do you really think an employer is going to give you a high-paying job when you are a clock-watcher and/or can't do 50-60 hours a week (and possibly more in some industries)? If so, what PLANET are you living on??? It sure ain't EARTH.
What about all the people in SUPPORT positions who aren't ENTITLED to complain about anything? You mean you actually think THEIR personal/professional needs/families are less important than yours???
GET OVER YOURSELVES!
Plain talk can sometimes silence the noise!
Plain talk gets you sued.
Ahhh... so now we are at the "magic" end of the story. We don't know what women need to do to get a promotion and it is all magic, so maybe you should just pretend like its all okay. Good gosh. No one knows... So, just lay back and take it.
Of course, you don't see many women because they are taking care of their kids and family...and trying to figure out which is worse, their paid job or the unpaid one at home.
I have a sister-in-law who was the District Attorney coming out of college with a bright future. But she chose to quit her job and raise four kids.
She did the right thing. And she will use her skill, training and education in other ways. She'll lose nothing. She has everything to gain.
"...be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands..."
yeah and that's what's so attractive about modern American women. They disdain any though of having a responsibility at home, but they can't stop bi!ching about how they aren't all CEO's of some stupid feminist magazine. Vapid.