Umm, you might wanna check the current Pennsylvania Governor's party affiliation.

Thanks for playing. Try back later!

Perhaps you need to find out why they are going bankrupt. It has to do with an trash burning plant, nothing more, nothing less.

Looks like your mental illness prevented you from knowing the facts of the city’s bankruptcy... your condition is part of a larger disorder called “dittohead lemming”.

I am a Pennsylvanian, and deport liberals is correct, too many liberals! Corbett is our first Rep governor in nearly a decade. It was LONG overdue! We are a state of taxes and give away programs. We have had a solely taxpayer funded pension plan for state workers for 30 years,, no wonder we're bankrupt. Not to mention burgeoning welfare roles.

Not only should this idiot check the current Governors' party affiliation, but also look at what he claims as a liberal state, that the State Senate has been a Republican Majority for many many years.

Perhaps the "mental disorder" that is noted is due to this persons obvious lack of education and perhaps a lifestyle of ignorance.

marksman-3550582, I too am a lifetime PA resident and NO, I am not a Democrat or party lemming. 8 years of Fast Eddie as our previous Gov., but come on and at least acknowledge that our elected State Senate has been for the most part of 10+ years; has been Republican. You can have whatever party running the state as the Gov, but the Gov. alone is not the only responsible crook for the problems we as a State are facing today. Drop the political affiliation/finger pointing and at least note that all of our elected idiots are responsible too.

The libs will figure this out just about the same time the cons figure out their head-in-rectum, what's-in-it-for-me-and-my-cronies mentality that put us in this situation in the first place.

PA used to have allot of chocolate mfg'ing with Hershey - the shareholders/board and CEO of Hershey's moves alot of jobs south to mexico - it takes awhile but that decision has a ripple effect. No they are not the only company selling out Americans - there are others.... to bad most of you are blinded by the greed.

Didn't realize Harrisburg was such a small city (population: 49k). Yeah, any one major project would be financially devastating in this economy.

Most certainly, politicians are the problem. I voted for Corbett for one reason, the campaign promise to sign the castle doctrine. He DID! I was pointing out the fact that the governorship has been held by a democrat up until last November. One thing must be acknowledged, we are a give away state. We tax everything from milk and cigarettes to paper products and pizza delivery. We support a giant network of pension programs solely paid by our taxes. These programs are bankrupting us and yet we have installed politicians who spend our tax dollars for investments like an incinerator and haven't a clue how to run a business. That kind of mentality stretches into the federal government as well.

Please, get your facts straight. our governer is a repug - so much for his economic agenda. He cut our budget to streds and hasn't created jobs - so how would that plan go over nationally? Hmmm, I wonder...

Deport Liberals

Pennsylvania is not a liberal run state-repugnants run it- and they've run it into the ground- by having more Representatives than any other state. The Republican Gov. is givng away the largest natural gas deposits in the country- well- not totally free as his cut will be put someplace where he can pick it up without being noticed.

Mav, why do liberals expect POLITICIANS to CREATE jobs? They don't create anything, they tax and spend. An economics package should include tax incentives and regulation reforms for small business. Too many politicians focus on corporations for hiring when small business hires more employees on short term than corps do because of tax structure.

Jim, population is why we have so many reps. Major cities make up most of that populace and they are indeed LIBERAL.

Marksman, I lived in Pennsylvania until 2008. The only thing that you mentioned that was correct was the governor. Land of taxes and welfare? Are you kidding. 6% sales tax and low property taxes do not make it the "land of taxes." I assume you did not like Rendell's law about CHIP being enacted for every child, regardless of income. Other than that, there is not much welfare handed out! I grew up in Western Pennsylvania, and people are hurting more than people on the east side of the state. I now live in NY, and this is the land of taxes and welfare. You have no idea what you are talking about, because you are sheltered in PA.

Meredith Whitney laid this scenario out a while ago for many munis while the Wall St bond managers attacked her over it.

This all has a long way to run.

Why do any of you guys care what the party affiliation oof the governor. He has nothing to do with the city's budget. You should look at the make up of the city council and the mayor, which I think have been "progressive" for a long, long time.

Once again, Marksman has no idea what he is talking about. Philadelphia, the largest city, is liberal. The suburbs are also very Republican. Overall, Philadelphia leans liberal. Pittsburgh is becoming more 50/50. Pittsburgh tends to lean toward the Dems, but the city has been becoming more conservative, thanks to the suburbs of Alleghany county. Erie and Altoona lean slightly Dem, but the rest of the state is conservative. If the state is all that liberal, why did GW only lose the state by 2% to Kerry? Why was PA considered a toss-up most of the 2008 presidential race, until McCain go into trouble with Palin?

Last time I checked cities had their own elected people running them, it is called and city council in most, so who cares who or what the states leaders are.

The state is not going bankrupt, the municipality that just happens to be the capital is... and yes it was run by nothing but dems. As the video shows, even the controller is a dem.

The fact the capital is going bankrupt has nothing to do with the state elected officials, it is all apart of the local elected officials.

@ Deport Liberals - Hmm... So by your thinking... Just because the United States has a Democratic President, doesn't mean that the republicans didn't F-It Up for 8 years prior? lol love it.

I doubt the current governor or the former governor had much to do with the debt in Harrisburg. This is probably a combination of problems, one of which is poor management of funds and allowing debt to soar. You don't arrive at $300,000,000 in debt overnight. What the governors are doing on the state level with the budget is another debate.

Read the article. This has nothing to do with the STATE of Pennsylvania, this is about the CITY of Harrisburg Pennsylvania. Who the current or past governor is has nothing to do with the CITY problems, thus making the governorship a mute point. I think that the only people that truly know whats going on there are those that ACTUALLY live there or at least near there. If all of your arguing points are simply based on what you've "heard" or "read" from a media source then take this into account that you believe what has been told to you by the same media outlets that 6 months ago told us the recession was over 2 years ago, then 2 months ago told us we weren't in a recession, then just last week told us that the recession is FINALLY over even though the economy is still in the tank, unemployment is still high,etc.,etc. To the people of Harrisburg I say good luck to you.

ALL politics is local folks! If the people of Harrisburg want to blame someone, blame the local government. As with any state, you'll have places where the local governments are doing very well for its citizens, on the flip side you'll have cities and townships that are in the hole. Just to give you an example, Tallahassee may be one jacked up city, but the city of Palm Coast is doing just fine.

Hummmmmmmmmmmm Even the Harrisburg crowd reconizes the value of a "Philadelphia lawyer!"

Interesting how this article did not mention that the city has been run by elected Democrats in EVERY elected office for decades. It was the DEMOCRATS who purchased an incinerator, instead of contracting a private company. It was the DEMOCRATS who negotiated outrageous pay and benefits with the public sector unions. It was the DEMOCRATS who bankrupted this city and the same is true in Central Falls, Rhode Island and the City fo Bell in California. Why is it that only cities with long term elected DEMOCRATS find themselves in Chapter 9 protection?

Harrisburg, PA has seven council members and a mayor.....ALL are Democrats. You idiots that mention that it is somehow the STATE of Pennsylvania's fault as a result of Republican leadership are, as usual, deflecting blame from the guilty culprits Pennsylvania has LONG been controlled by the Democrats and only in 2010 did the Republicans win the governors seat and a majority of congressional seats. Regardless, the state is not responsible for the fiscal health of a local community. The local politicians are. Didn't any of you libs have govt/civics in high school?

Harrisburg is the first domino to fall in the long line of debt-ridden liberal controlled communities soon to follow. Of course, Obama will see to it that we ALL will be responsible for bailing them out.

Wow! Did it really take 18 posts and over an hour for someone to notice that this is a local problem and not a state problem? Such passonate arguments though.

I don't pretend to know the political makeup of Harrisburg. I can say the $300m debt tied to revamping an incinerator (if the story is accurate) seems a tad exccessive......

The fact of the matter, blue states are far more prosperous then red states. That is a fact. Of course Texas and California being the outliers, and Texas is only because they sit on liquid gold, and California because of the archaic prop governing. Which I might add was run by a republican for nearly a decade.

Sorry but arguing on a state level that republicans do better is so clearly inaccurate it's a wonder you put your pants on. Republican controlled states are nearly all at the bottom of the food chain. Use any metric, from poverty, to median income, to violent crime, to education, to even abortions.

Anyone who can argue Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Kentucky, Tennessee, the Dakotas, Montana, Utah, Arizona, and others are grand microcosms of how the country should be run is an idiot. They are cesspools that anyone with a lick of sense leaves and heads to a blue state if they want to live prosperously.

So, REALITY, how long did YOU live in PA? I have been here all my life. The so-called welfare reform of Clinton's reign changed nothing. This is and still remains a welfare state. Property taxes went down only because more housing went up. School taxes escalated to match what was saved on property taxes. The cities remain liberal as I stated. The outlying areas (where I am from) are mostly conservative. If NY managed to come up to PA's level, too bad for them. Face facts, the country as a whole is more tax ridden than ever.

Why didn't Harrisburg just increase taxes on the top 1% to generate revenue to pay off the debt?

Americans build crap and charge to much for their goods.

I was in Sports Authority yesterday. Did not find anything made in the USA....Viet Nam, Thailand, Turkey, China...even Pakistan !!! I did not buy anything.

WeldDem

Obviously you are a DEM? You are also not the brightest bulb in the box. American made products out do any made elsewhere and with fewer people to make them. Problem is those many work for pennies and we got caught up in the everyone has to have everything cheap bull that has cost us all our manufacturing jobs and our economy.

Intead of building schools in cheap labor areas where they have moved their manufacturing or paying a little more taxes our billionaires should be bringing jobs back here. Instead they are empire building by supporting bad politicians looking to bring us down to a third world country status.

Instead of starting class warfare to further his destructive agenda, Obama should be making deals with all these corporations he is trying to make the enemy. If he traded taxes on the trillions sitting overseas for the start of permanent jobs here hiring only American citizens we could be down the road to recovery. Which by the way has not happened and despite what the numbers people in Washington try to bull us with the recession is not over unless they now call it a depressions and just don't say so.

Name one decent product made in the USA.

The Truth,

Bad City management by a bunce of dim witted politicans that won't even pay the their own taxes that are owed to the city. The city was nice enough to put them on a time payment plan. The city needs money and even the Mayor and some members of City government are on a time repayment plan for their owed taxes. Give me a break, their wages should be taken and they should be held accountable!

WeldDem, the kids and I found a rubber bungie, a couple tools, a cast iron pan and the wood bread box when we played the "find something with USA on it" game.. that was it in the whole house and garage..

Well Shaking my head I am shaking my head over the fact that you and about 90% or Repub / Tealiban evidently slept through Civics 101 in shcool.

The President CAN NOT do very much with out Congress approval. No check book. No legislative.
The President is just the CEO that says I want to go here. All else is up to the *children on the hill*.
And getting anything do these days is impossible.

Remember Mitch McConnel announced on day 1 that he would see to it that Obama is a one term president.
And to the detriment of this country - he is holding to that promise.

All these idiots need to charged with treason, and a *pledge* not to prosecute if they just disappear for ever.

"They were tired of being humiliated and denigrated," Schwartz told Reuters, referring to the city council.

Isn't it amazing how everyone in the US these days who screws up plays the victim card?! In this case, a city mismanaged itself into the ground, and then files for Chapter nine because they were "tired of being humiliated and denigrated"?! No WONDER they failed. No one seems to take any responsibility anymore for their own failings. We have turned victim-hood into an art form in America.

LOL.....@ TruthWillBeTold2u....

This has NOTHING TO DO with BUY AMERICAN nor the problems in the Congressional chambers, but the continued padding of pensions, and more than likely tied to UNIONS.

As stated in the article:

Harrisburg joins Central Falls, R.I., in Chapter 9. The tiny New England town, facing a huge shortfall to pay for pensions and retiree benfits, filed for protection from creditors in August.

And here are the TRUTH-TO-ALL reasons:

The financial calamity facing taxpayers is not in the administration of Pennsylvania’s Public School Employees Retirement System (PSERS) and the State Employees Retirement System (SERS) plan, but the result of failing to correct plan design decisions that occurred almost on an annual basis beginning in 2001 with the passage of Act 9.

While the projected 2012 pension costs have diminished from the original 2003 projections due principally to asset returns, the expected taxpayer contributions will nonetheless jump from $1.376 billion in 2011-12 to $4.176 billion in 2012-13, according to PSERS and SERS latest estimates projections. As such, it remains a looming fiscal crisis.

To make fiscal matters worse, two PSEA labor union-backed bills in the House of Representatives (HB 2268 and HB 2339) would further increase the costs of pensions to taxpayers by providing current beneficiaries another cost of living enhancement.

http://www.commonwealthfoundation.org/research/detail/pennsylvania-pensions-manmade-financial-disasters

So, your comments should be directed at another article concerning JOBS, not on this thread.

Amazing what some folks will post when, apparently, they don't even read the dad gum article.

WeldDem,

There are still great products made in the USA! Go on the internet and type in MADE IN THE USA....and BINGO! All kinds of companies are making items right here...with raw products from the US!

The US needs to take back our jobs. Big corporations should not have been allowed to ship all of our jobs overseas! We have been sold out by corporate america. Do you think that for one minute these companies think about OR care about the USA! NOOOOO...it's all about the bazillions of $$$ that they will make off of poor indentured labor. These corporations ARE TRAITORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@Shaking my head

And here in lies the problem with society, we all think our side is the right and the other is some evil doing wrong thing. While I don't agree with WeldDem, I don't totally agree with you. To make deals with coprate America would be what religious people would call making a deal with the devil. Would you rather live in a world with pure capitalism? Pure anything doesn't work. I believe we're seeing the beginings of too much capitalism, or companies that want monopolies (Walmart just to name one of many). Just like how pure socialism can't work.

Like in nature there exist an equilibrium, I believe that there exists an equilibrium for market/government. I don't think we've found that yet. It doesn't help thought that our government and people like you would rather fight about why one sides the right one and the other is wrong. Both sides need to get past their differences and meet in the middle, on common ground. A mixture of both. We either fall divided or this country can learn how to stand united like it once did.

One of the major problems in Harrisburg was mentioned in this article. Namely, the incinerator. It should never have been undertaken. Well over 70% of the municipalities that built and manage incinerators are in the same shape as Harrisburg. Columbus OH finally wised up and closed down the incinerator they built...after losing many millions of tax payers money.

When will big government ever learn? The purpose of government is not to be everything to everybody. Stay out of the way of private industries, stay out of people's lives, and begin to perform the basic functions of government. leave the rest to private citizens and private companies.

If I want to live in a socialist country...I can move to the third world or to Europe.

To WeldDem: I am copying this list. I am familiar with most of the products and have no problem recommending them to anyone. I would add to this list several cabinet and furniture makers that produce exceptional products that are very affordable. So before you start trashing Americans and their products look around for ways to support our economy with your wallet.

ProductManufacturer/SupplierState

Windows
Amsco Windows
UT

J bolts/foundation
S.C. Prototypes
MT

J bolts/foundation/stock
Pacific Steel
UT

Gorilla Duct tape
The Gorilla Glue Co
OH

4″ perforated pipe, radon
Northern Pipe Co.
ND

4″ pvc fittings
GPK
ND

pvc glue
Oatey
OH

8d ring shank nails
True Spec
CA

16d sinkers
Griptite
WI

1/2″ foundation nuts
CAT
IL

gun nails
Maze
IL

damp proofing
Mulseal/Tremco
OH

Rebar
Nucor
UT

Concrete
CMI
MT

Concrete Portland
Ash Grove
MT

Concrete aggregate
CMC. Beglade
MT

Concrete sand
CMC. Beglade
MT

Hangers, straps, H clips
Simpson Strong-Tie
CA

TJI’s
I-Level Truss Joist
OR

2×4′s and 2×6′s
RY Lumber
MT

Plywood
Potlatch
ID

2×4′s and 2×6′s
F.H. Stoltze
MT

2×4′s and 2×6′s
Idaho Forest
ID

PL 400 sub floor adhesive
Loctite
CT

MiraTEC fascia
CMI Corp
PA

treated plate
McFarland Cascade
WA

T braces/framing
Appleton Supply
WI

sill seal
Reflectix
IN

powder actuated pins
TW Ramset/Redhead
IL

foam board
Dow
IL

Spray paint
Rustoleum
IL

Spray insulation
JM Corbond
MT, TX

Screws
Por Pac
CO, CT

Wire joint
Thomas & Betts
TN

Spray paint
ACE
IL

paint
Sherwin Williams
OH

Window foam
Touch n Seal
MO

Caulking
White Lightning
OH

Plastic elect. Straps
Handy Straps
WI

meter base
Eaton/Cutler Hammer
PA

electric panel
Eaton/Cutler Hammer
PA

Breakers
Eaton/Cutler Hammer
PA

PVC pipe/fittings
Ridgeline Pipe
OR

2″ Romex connectors
Bridgeport
CT

Boxes
Allied
OH

Wire-service, romex
Southwire
GA

staples
Sturgeon Bay
WI

4/0 SER straps
Sturgeon Bay
WI

Telephone wire
3M
MN

wire connectors/crimp sleeves
Ideal
IL

wire staples
Sturgeon Bay
WI

Furnace disconnect
Eaton/Cutler Hammer
PA

recessed cans
Juno/Schneider Electric
IL

recycled glass
Livingston Landfill
MT

Furnace
Trane
TX

Cooling Coil
Trane
TX

HRV
Trane
TX

Air Cleaner
Trane
TX

Zoning/Thermostats
Trane
TX

Ductwork
Norwesco
WA

Screws
Brynolf Manufacturing
IL

PVC
Cresline-Northwest
WA

Condensate Trap
Airtec
MA

Registers/Grilles
Hart & Cooley
MI

Allthread Rod
Chicago Hardware
IL

Pipe Brackets
C&S Manufacturing
WI

Conensate Pump
Franklin Electric
IN

Unistrut
Cooper B-Line
IL

Flexible Duct
Atco
TX

Duct Sealant
Hardcast
TX

Flex Duct Straps
Source 1
OK

PVC Glue/Primer
Oatey
OH

Thermostat Wire
Honeywell
MS

Exhaust Fans
Broan
WI

Concentric Vent
Source 1
OK

Exhaust Hoods
Broan
WI

Nuts/ Washers
Perine Danforth
WA

Dryer Box
In O Vate Tech
FL

Duct Liner
Johns Manville
CO

Duct Liner Pins
Hardcast
TX

Allthread Anchors
ITW Buildex
IL

Ductstrap
Colombia Man
WA

Manual Dampers
Norwesco
WA

Sill Sealer
Reflectix, Inc.
IN

PVC Primer and Cement
Oatey
OH

PVC Pipe
Cresline-Northwest
WA

Pex Pipe
Viega
KS

Kitchen Sink
Moen
PA

Kitchen Faucet
Moen
NC

Kitchen Basket strainer
Dearborn Brass
TX

Kitchen disposer
In-Sink-Erator
WI

Bathroom Pedestal Lav
Mansfield
OH

Bathroom Lav faucet
Moen
NC

Bathroom Lav sink
Mansfield
IL

Bathroom toilets
Mansfield
IL

Bathroom toilet seats
Kohler
AR

Master Shower
Aquaglass
OR

Master shower valve
Moen
NC

Master shower trim
Moen
NC

Master soaker tub
Aquaglass
OR

Master soaker tub trim
Moen
NC

Master soaker tub valve
Moen
NC

Bathtub waste and overflow
Watco
MO

Full Bath tub/shower
Aquaglass
OR

Full Bath tub/shower trim
Moen
NC

Full Bath tub/shower valve
Moen
NC

Water Heater
Bradford White
PA

Pex Fittings
Zurn
TX

PVC Fittings
Sioux Chief
MO

Hangers/pipe insulators
Sioux Chief
MO

Roof Jack
Oatey
OH

Plumber Putty
Hercules
NJ

Wax rings
Hercules
NJ

Thread Dope
Hercules
NJ

Plumber tape
Smith/Cooper
CA

Black pipe
RJB Wholesale, Inc
WA

Black pipe fittings
Anvil International
NV

Gastite pipe and fittings
Gastite
MA

Soulder Flux
Rectorseal
TX

Soulder
Exeon Inc.
IL

Copper Pipe
Cerro Flow Products Inc.
MO

Copper fittings
Elkhart Products Corp.
IL

Backflow preventor/PRV
Watts
ME

Expansion Tank
Amtrol
RI

How right you are, Bruce! "Philadelphia Lawyer Schwartz" (sounds like the name of a fictional character) says the council was tired of being humiliated. They humiliated themselves by borrowing money they had no prayer of paying back !!!!

That being said, many state capitols have a hard time keeping up appearances with limited tax revenues. A large part of the real estate is state-owned, and off the local property tax rolls. The state may pay some fees for fire service, trash collection, etc., but the city supports a lot of state activity. The prestige of being the state capitol is nice, but costly. The lenders share the blame - they willingly lend (at low rates) for shaky projects. They feel the state will make it good, because it's for the State Capitol City. Maybe it's best for the state to take it over, like D.C. is managed by Congress.

companies that want monopolies (Walmart just to name one of many)

BS. Cite a respectable citation for this. Wal-Mart epitomizes capitalism.

Do they want more market share - sure. Name a company that does not and I'll show you a total failure. I can't think of a company that is more regularly attacked and maligned but the market gets to decide. It's not up to the government to pick winners/losers.

You don't like Wal-Mart? Fine, don't shop there. If enough people agree with you, Wal-Mart will go out of business. Obviously, most people don't agree with you.

I can't right off remember all of their names, but there are plenty of American-made products. Proctor and Gamble still makes various soap products here, and Johnson Controls still makes batteries here too. One trend that I found in my 30+ year career behind the wheel was a trend toward the manufacturing of products in small off-the-beaten-path towns where wages are quite low. For instance, a Johnson battery plant near Muskegon, MI was trying to hire experienced machinists the other day, but the starting salary was under $11.00/hour, which, for 40 hours, is below the poverty line for a family of four. I remember one small city that I visited a couple of times in southeast Iowa, Ft. Madison, were there were a number of manufacturing operations, however, most of the employees there were earning poverty-level wages too, and I could expose plenty of other examples if I had the time too.

Between the crash in housing values, the off-shoring of so many American jobs, an increase in manufacturing technology, and the loss of many middle-income service-industry jobs and formerly-viable small businesses to big-box warehouse retail that imports the lion's share of their product line, almost every city and town in America is at risk of being crushed financially. In Highland Park, MI, there was a story yesterday that the city's traffic lights were being repossessed, and the first suburb adjacent to the east has already gone bankrupt too. Both Highland Park and Hamtramck were once home to large auto plants, all of which have closed.

The Detroit school system has closed so many schools and laid-off so many teachers that class sizes at the elementary school level are as high as 60 students, which basically means that they are throwing away 15-20 kids in every elementary school classroom. Even the nice new high school that my girlfriend's kid attends here in Colorado has virtually eliminated busing. Now if you are within 5 miles from the school you have to find your own way there, and this school is just outside the suburban fringe. While they have chosen to maintain several varsity sports programs plus their marching band, parents are responsible for transportation to away games as the school district has already made that cut too. Here in Colorado it is a yearly thing where smaller school districts end-up having to curtail the school year early because they have run out of money to continue operating.

Meanwhile, down on Wall St, I talked to a guy a few weeks ago who had made $20 million in one week shorting various stocks and foreign currencies. Except for the potential trickle-down effect of his increased level of spending, that money is not productive, it is not creating any jobs, except maybe part of one broker's commission, and the fact is that for many savvy investors, Wall Street has become a giant casino, where fortunes are made and lost every day by huge investors while companies and the little people like you and me are tossed around like a small boat out to sea in a hurricane. Anyone here want to put what is left of your 401K in the markets and continue to hope that the outcome will still be good?

I am afraid that the bankruptcy of Harrisburg will not be the last municipal bankruptcy. More than likely, what has happened in Harrisburg is just the tip of the iceberg, as there are numerous major cities and towns all over America struggling to make ends meet. Plenty of cities, even counties and States, have made draconian layoffs and are still having to pay vendors 90 or more days later. Colorado's driver's license computer has crashed, and right now it is taking several months to get a driver's license, yet the State can't afford to fix it because it still owes the vendor for the original installation. While there has been a claim made that we have seen an economic recovery since 2009, that is mainly only true down on Wall Street which has come about by trainloads of printed money from the Fed. That's why you are hearing the investor crowd calling for another round of quantitative money-printing, as all the money that the Fed printed-up last Spring is already gone.

Maybe it is time that the Fed print-up some money for the rest of us instead, and try to prime the consumption pump, as continuing to throw money at that black hole called Wall Street is a losing battle for most of us. For every rich investor earning $20 million, there has to be 1000 people who only make $20 grand to balance things out. Until we can get a handle on income inequality and begin to stand-up for the rights of all Americans equally, we are never going to get out of this mess that Wall Street got us into, and cities, towns, counties, and even States are at constant risk of failure, not to mention the fiscal woes of the average American.

Yes, the 2012 election is a critical decision for all of us. Do we sell-out to the siren song of the wealthy investor crowd or do we stand-up for our rights and demand an equal share???

I'm voting Democrat because I see that choice as the only viable solution for most of us.

Well Dave, I can certainly see where the average American will be using a lot of that stuff.

Weldem has a point. On average our products are too expensive and don't compete well with equally good products from other countries and if you're on a budget, one is not going to be looking for the BETTER product. He/She will be looking for one that will fit what they need at a price they can afford.

An interesting story that I just found, from Business Insider Magazine, the subject of which is 7 economic lies that the Republicants are fond of spreading.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/12/economist-destroys-the-gops-seven-biggest-economic-lies/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story%29

How long until the USA files for bankruptcy? Quit with the buy American already, that's not gonna save America. How many products do you think China sells that says MADE IN AMERICA? Not that many lol you guys will be in the soup line at the homeless shelter saying buy American. Tell me how does those 24 million people that don't have a job buy American? But hey, those same companies that sold us out, and went overseas now have to worry about going bankrupt because, we after all we don't have a job to buy their Chinese products.

I try to avoid Walmart, or Chinamart, as I call it. Mom and Pop stores throughout America were put out of business by these types - which include Meijers stores, and the like. Food, clothing, gasoline - one stop shopping. Meanwhile, the little towns' downtowns are inhabited by pigeons, or have become antique shops for ladies who lunch. (Cute and fun, but not quite the same use as the purpose of the old downtowns.) Sad.

Old Timer . . one possible solution to the scenarios you describe above is to move Wall St. to Detroit. That would revitalize Detroit and put the bankers back in touch with their country. The next step is to elect Mitt Romney as President and give him a chance to fix the structural economic problems facing our country. His father did a good job as Governor of Michigan. Try visualizing some creative alternatives to simply voting for our uber-Divisive current President.

Well at the rate of decline on income here in the US Americans will only be able to buy made in China goods and you can thank the RICH folk for that, unless these imports are addressed by some serious import TAX it will always be this way, but we all know that these imports are being made for our American companies here in the USA, that's a fact ..... I bet people think this mess happened by accident, look around record profits and if the GOP gets it's way there will be NO federal minimum wage and people will be making $.60 an hour once again, welcome to the future people where the RICH get RICHER and the MIDDLE CLASS gets POORER, that's who will be paying for the NEXT TAX BREAK to PAY for the 2012 elections ......

Add to list:

Montavilla Sheet Metal

Clackamas, Oregon

Custom fabricators - and a family-owned/operated business

Rick . . why so angry and spouting all of that Class Warfare crap?? Why don't you be Innovative and THINK your way out, rather than trying to "B*tch" your way out? Go out there and COMPETE with the people who are simply willing to work harder than You in other countries and stop playing the political blame game like our president. All your complaining will get you is pigeons under that bridge!

I try to avoid Walmart, or Chinamart, as I call it.

I went there yesterday. I bought some Proctor & Gamble products, some Mayfield ice cream, Tyson chicken, Coke products, a variety of fresh meats and vegetables, and a national brand pet food. Are you telling me it was all made in China?

Prof - What country does Montavilla get their sheet stock from? I'm guessing Thailand or India.

Why I don't like to shop at Walmart...

They import many cheap, inferior goods. They provide poverty-level jobs and expect communities to welcome them with open arms. Walmart then becomes the only place they can "afford" to shop at...

http:// www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/19/walmart-pay-worker-minimum-wage_n_851115. html

(please remove spaces)

Yes, when Governor Romney led Michigan's then vibrant economy, the top Federal income tax rate was 70%, and it was even 40% on incomes of over $22K. These days $22K is below the Federal poverty standard for a family of four, and just barely above the no Federal income tax threshold. Since 1968 the Dollar has collapsed by over 80% in value, which does not fully explain the rapidly growing income disparity in this country either, since the top 10% of us have seen their incomes rise by 450% just since 1979, while the bottom 70% have seen theirs fall by 40% during the same time frame.

Maybe the situation in Detroit might improve if Wall Street moved to Detroit and brokers were forced to live within Detroit's city limits, and send their kids to Detroit's public schools too??? Or maybe the situation in Detroit would improve if we took steps to ban unfair foreign competition that is destroying American middle-income jobs? Otherwise Detroit is in first place in the contest for the largest ghost town in the history of the world.

Old Timer,

1. The dollar has collapsed because Bernanke and Geithner keep printing so many at our free-spending president's behest.

2. You fail to factor in inflation over the past 40yrs Old Timer, $22K in 1968 is much more in 2011 dollars.

3. You really should visit Detroit. Good things are happening there. The auto companies are making a STRONG comeback as are the Tigers this week. Despite the Naysayers such as yourself . . . !!!

Wal-Mart wages will qualify ya for welfare.

I was born and raised in and around Detroit, I lived there for 25 years, and I lost everything that I owned there in 1982 including my business, my house, and my car, and I got to experience seeing almost everyone that I knew ground into the mud economically. In November of 1982, after losing my business and spending 3 fruitless months searching for a job, I had to leave town to find a job, back when the unemployment rate was 25% and there was a huge tent city at Grand Circus Park. During the late 1980s I was there almost every week hauling to Ford River Rouge, before our shipper went under in the 1990 recession, and during the mid and late 1990s I hauled beer there from the Twin Cities and La Crosse, before both of those breweries were closed. From 1999 through 2009 I hauled meat there almost every week from Denver, and during the last decade I got to again enjoy as just about everyone that I knew in Detroit's wholesale meat and grocery business got run into the ground too.

I must know 50 people who used to work at area car plants that don't work there any longer because their plant closed. A good friend from high school is today struggling to hang onto his HVAC business after he has been forced to layoff 90% of his people there, and my old college roommate is delivering pizza for a living there at age 55 after working for over 30 years at GM Truck & Coach, before losing his job and his house after that plant closed too. In fact, of six car plants that existed around Pontiac in 1982, not one of them is still open today!!!

What is going well in Detroit these days besides the fact that the Tigers are in the playoffs and the Lions are still unbeaten? Any more new casinos open-up in downtown Detroit lately? Farmer Jack still in business? How about Wrigley, Great Scott, or A & P? Kroger's warehouse on Middlebelt and I-96 still closed? How many major chain grocery stores are there in Detroit's 140 sq miles? Zero??? How many abandoned houses are there still in Detroit after the 6000 that were already torn-down over the last two years? 30,000+??? Not to mention the abandoned apartment buildings, the abandoned retail space, the abandoned factories, or even those abandoned high-rise office buildings and hotels downtown!!! Yes, you are right, good things are happening in Detroit these days, good that is, if you are looking for inexpensive housing, or maybe good if you are an employer hoping to keep your remaining employees wages down!!!

PS: I was talking about the collapse of the value of the Dollar since 1968, when it was worth about 5 times what it is worth today. Bernanke, Geithner, and Paulson were relative latecomers who had relatively little to do with it. Remember 1968, the year that the Tigers came back against St. Louis in the World Series and Denny McClain won 31 games??? I do.

I also remember when metro-Detroit was the fastest-growing major urban area in America in the mid-1970s well too. And, ever since Ronald Reagan was elected in 1980, with a brief respite during the Clinton Presidency, metro-Detroit has been on a nearly continuous and rather tragic economic slide, where millions of Americans have been walked all over repeatedly in search of the greatest possible profit at the lowest possible cost. So, I don't share your view of Detroit's alleged comeback, and I probably know quite a few more people there than you do too.

Dave K 1663441,

Good work on the optimism. We left one critical item out of the list. It's something no other country can produce in such quantities, shape, sizes, and fits. It's called DEBT We have mastered creating debt.

We need to recognize a shift in economies and I would suggest you take a look at a book titled "The Choice" written by Russel Roberts. It provides a good overview of how economies grow in some areas and shrink in others. Example, John Deere and the likes come about and create jobs in manufacturing heavy equipment while displacing thousands of Farm Worker jobs. It's a bit about evolution of economies.

Name one decent product made in the USA.

Not Your Daughter's Jeans, not only decent, but high quality and an awesome fit.

Wrong again Old Timer . . I know quite a few people here and have worked here in Detroit for 18yrs. I could walk from my home to Comerica Park where the Detroit Tigers were playing in the rain last night!

While some of what you say is true you have missed some very important points: 1) the Auto Companies are STILL ALL HEADQUARTERED HERE and have been a bright spot in leading the nations economic activity through manufacturing sector activity. Yes they are doing it differently (but all completed Union contract negotiations last week) just as Raging Capitalist's book "The Choice" probably discusses the necessity of such evolutions, however, you need only be here (or listen to Chrysler/Eminem's advertisement) to see that the goals are still burning very nicely and there is the chance for good technologies and developments to rise from these ashes. All is NOT lost, Old Timer!

2. Like so many people, you like to focus on the apparent picture of a Detroit filled with abandoned buildings a legacy of the 1967 race riots and Democratic city administrations that never properly cleaned these sites up. However, they are slowly being revitalized and there is a virtual "Arab spring" going on right here in the Detroit area whereby part of the economic revitalization of the area is occurring through the now growing success of the established and fairly successful Middle Eastern population contributing Very Positively here in the Detroit area.

3. I am sorry that many of your friends are delivering pizzas. However, that may be more of an individual case than a comment on some sort of social phenomena. My union has had to change in order to see it's industry survive as have my family members who were Teamsters. That is part of social and economic evolution which can be quite painful.

Yes, Old Timer, the World is Changing!! And Detroit is fighting to come back out of this and land on it's feet (like most other cities in America) despite the stereotyped perceptions of people like yourself.

I suggest you try looking forward (in addition to back), think Creatively and stay in the game like the auto companies and people here have, and try to find CREATIVE AND COMPETITIVE SOLUTIONS to fix our economy and America's structural problems. It is clear from the situation here that your (and the Democrat) line of thinking won't work. Go ahead and make Another Mistake and keep voting Democratic . . for the same old destructive policies that got Detroit in this mess (community organizers and democratic figures just like Barak Obama).

I applaud the people who are developing new technologies at our Universities here in Michigan and Detroit, Taxing Less and Exporting More and trying to keep America on the cutting edge of technology to lead our country out of this mess and prevent us from becoming an almost complete service economy like Greece. Like you, I was born in Michigan and grew up here . . but think I see it differently from you.

This isn't as much about politics as you seem to think, Old Timer, it is about new approaches.

Here is the link to the Chrysler/Eminem Superbowl ad . . it might help you remember what Detroit really is . . . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKL254Y_jtc

OLD TIMER, the people of Detroit, and the rest of the United States, don't want your DIVISIVE, CLASS-WARFARE POLITICS. We've seen enough of what "Community Organizers" like Barak Obama can do . . We need new ideas and technologies to move us forward rather than more taxes for social programs (Harrisburg got bit by that same vicious cycle of trying to raise property taxes in order to support their Pensions and Social Programs . . just like Greece). It is clear you are completely blind; are you still able to drive your truck??

Only the Republicans are trying to recreate jobs through promoting manufacturing and technology, as are the auto companies in Detroit . . . despite your negative and disgusting class-warfare rhetoric.

I have to agree with Ido, pensions are a big issue for many state and local governments. And it is not an easy issue to fix. Generally, state and local employees receive lower compensation but have more generous pension plans. Those employees count on those pensions, but over the decades, state and local governments - both democrat and republican run - have either failed to properly plan for those pensions or borrowed against those pensions (just like social security) and now they can't pay the money back.

The employees were promised the pensions, so it is not fair to change that now. But at the same time, the state and local governments don't have the funds to pay them. So there is no easy answers - no one wins in this type of situation.

I just can't understand why so many members of the post baby-boomer generations are willing to give away as many of their rights as they can, and embrace a political movement that does not have their best interests in mind. You know, it took several generations of your ancestors to win those rights in the first place, and now you want to side with the people that would much rather work in an environment where the majority of workers have no rights, just to make it that much easier for the employer class to walk all over their employees?

So, when is Detroit coming back to a city population of nearly 2 million like it had in 1950? Or even a population of 1 million, like in 1980? If you can walk to Comerica Park from where you live, then why don't you walk on over across the freeway to Wolverine Packing and say hello to my old friends there for me?

Ok, I will!! You have a good day too OT!

Also OT, since you drive, I'd like to ask you one question. Why don't you in the trucking industry do something about all the abuse in your industry? I know individuals (mostly from ex-Yu and Mex) who have all of the CDL exams w/answers (and Brag about this), who tutor non-English speaking, and Non-trained drivers through these exams; even sitting next to them at Sec. of State and feeding them answers during the test! Then these drivers go to firms that don't property insure and maintain their trucks, in addition to the fact that these drivers know next to Nothing about driving! I imagine they are severely undercutting you in price and driving your livelihood down. They also aren't safe.

Yet it is easier to go after Republicans, "tea baggers", and all these other people you talk about? When Ray LaHood, Obama, Teamsters etc. seem content to let these abuses go on. Even you are complicit . . it is just easier to bash Republicans than to address these very real problems that are eroding your prospects? I'm all for immigration, but your officials cannot even enforce the current laws. It is just easier for you to spout class warfare stuff rather than look at people who are shoving your own nose in your own profession??

I just cannot understand why people like you are not concerned about these things which would make me very angry if I was a driver doing it right . .

Really? "City does not have expertise or ability to get involved in business ventures". What a bunch of nonsense...Like there were never any private businesses that went belly up.

But private businesses that go belly up don't usually do it at the expense of the taxpayers. Cities aren't gambling with private money or investor money. They are gambling with taxpayer money. BIG difference.

beadarg, There is one basic problem with your question. It is not the role of a municipality to "get into business". If we get back to the idea of government limiting itself to those things it is supppose to do, we would not have city's like this getting into business that is better served by private industry.

Who do these people think they are?

Are they Afghani?, are they Iraqi?, are they Israeli?

Why do they think they could possibly get help from our government? Stupid Americans acting like foreigners. If they were in the middle east we would have the money to fix things up, just like we do all over the rest of the world.

There aren't any, just like there are no longer any other American made appliance/electronic device. Kitchen appliances are all now either made in China or Mexico. There are almost no American clothing manufacturers any more, and the fabric that those manufacturers do use is foreign-made, not American made. So there really is little, if anything outside of SOME of our food, that is truly American made. Note I said some of our food, since many of the ingredients in that processed food we all buy are also coming from foreign sources, not US farms.

Good luck...

Whirlpool and Cuisinart are made in the USA

I think Anti-trust is right about TVs. StillMadeInUSA dot com doesn't have TVs listed. They do have some other appliances, but I'm not sure how often they update the site,

You might get lucky if you visit an antique shop or flea market.

As far as I know, RCA is the only one made here. I have one and have had to have one wire solder repaired. The TV is 8 years old and other than that one small thing ($43.00) it is a very good set.

Bill1488

Whirlpool and Cuisinart are made in the USA

Thanks! I'm off to Best Buy for a new Whirlpool or Cuisinart 40" color TV!!

Whirlpool and Cuisinart are made in the USA

Yeah - but there is too much "spin" on their TVs.

Just cause something says made in USA doesn't mean it wasn't made of Domestic and or Foreign parts.

The reason you can't find certain products that are completely made in the USA is that you cannot make several components for environmental reasons. So those components have to be shipped from other countries. The same can be said for fabric (which for vibrant colors uses chromium, copper or iron when made in large quantities.) So the designer might be American, the clothing might even be sewed here, but most(not all) of the fabric probably came from another country. Unless you or someone you know made the fabric, dyed it, designed, and sewed it themselves you can't really know.

please dont tell me all these craps about vibrant colors, recently i was in india, they make fantastic silk sarees for thousands of years and their colors are just fantastic and they still use vegetable dye no chemicals. the reason they dont make clothes any more in usa, because our greedy corporate will always look for cheapest labor in the world, and i just wonder in sixties and seventies usa use to make fantastic clothes

RCA and Whirlpool are one and the same company, along with Maytag, Amana, Jenn-Air, KitchenAid, and many other brand names. You need to check every component in an appliance for its origin before you claim that Whirlpool is American made.....SOME are ASSEMBLED in the USA, but of parts that come from all over the world, as others and I have already posted. That goes for every single item that is marked MADE IN AMERICA. China is buying up every possible source of natural resources it can get its hands on just to control the market to keep their own factories going. That means that they will soon control the SOURCE of almost everything that goes into that MADE IN AMERICA product.

They're already in my neighborhood and selling microwave gyros.

When the spending is used for productive reasons it does.

When it is used to overpay for crap, welfare or war it does not.

Tea Bag,

There is another part to that equation. Government spending money they do not have = loss of jobs, loss of security, and diminishes this once great nation

War, actual war where we are really behind it 110% to win as fast as possible, creates TONS jobs. What do you think pulled us out of the affects of the depression?

wap3,

Congress would approve any bill that would make any sense at all. Obama has proposed destruction of America with his crap. Thank the tea party for realizing that. When you people realize that we can't spend our way out of this mess, ( with everybody's money but yours) maybe something will get done. Nobody's fault except the idiot in the White house and those that support him!

where was your tea party when Bush was spending money we did not have. If you recall there was a surplus when he came into office and he spent that and started over spending in two years but nowhere was your tea party until a black man was elected

I don't know about Jonathansgood, but all those who are now in my local branch of the Tea-Party were arguing that it shouldn't be done.

As a fellow Pennsylvanian, thank you for providing facts not fiction. Reading is in the tank as well.

They also recently had flooding. For a town of 46,000, that is a lot to hit it at once. As for incinerators, NO community should be burning their trash whether it is private or public--too many costs as well as adverse externalities put on society. Advanced recycling and reducing the waste stream is the ONLY sustainable solution in the long run. Cities need to make put resources into these programs.

There was flooding - but the incinerator problem has been a problem for over 20 years. Harrisburg is right on the banks of the Susquehanna river and weathered many floods. Harrisburg is now a city of less than 50,000 which is another part of it's problem - it has been loosing population for decades.

Spare me, the president is to blame??? Really? Our governer is a republican...

I am shaking my head at the "flat-earther" thinking they know so much about carbon dioxide! If it is something you breathe then go put your lips around an incinerator and see if it is the same thing. CO2, folks is something we breathe but in very small quantities--when it goes over our limits and the atmosphere's limits, that is when the problems begin. It is a case of stocks and flows--if the flow is greater than what the stock can handle, then it tips the balance. What regulations are attempting to do is control the amount of emissions. What is so wrong with that? I remember when we in the midwest were burning coal and giving the east coast acid rain. Well, why should we have cared since it wasn't hurting us? Because it was adversely affecting others!! THAT is why we have regulations and I am grateful we do.

Most flat earthers beleive that the air is mostly O2. the argument is we exhale Co2 which plants use, however changing the ballance is the wanton destruction of the worlds rain forests.

Liberals try to kill flora by reducing CO2.

Here is a report from the EPA stating the IPCC was grossly ignoring facts to continue their global warming CO2 charade. The EPA finally looked at all the things they were being fed by the IPCC and realized that a lot of it was being made up.

Spare me, the president is to blame??? Really? Our governer is a republican...

Yeah, and the Mayor of Harrisburg is a Democrat. And we had two terms of Democrat Fast Eddy... So what is your point?

Our governor is gutting our college system budgets and driving up the costs! Why would a college grad stay in PA???

I thought Harrisburg was a dem town and PA was a rep state most of the past 10 years.

ARealMoron fit's you better. Our state has had a democrat Gov and a Dem controled house for the past 8 years.

But this is about the city not the state, and like the dept Rendell left Phile in he did the same to Harrisburg, by shifting local city and state funds to phile to pay off the dept he left it with.

Maybe it is time to take it on the chin and file bankruptcy for all of America, it IS going to happen, why not now.

Because the creditors get to come in and take everything of value first. Like Communism? Because China owns us.

Sorry but China actually does not own us. They are our number one foreign creditor at 16%. But suprisingly Americans and American companies own most of the government debt. Google American debt if you do not believe me.

FREE?

No - the problem is the "FREE" lunch that so many want from "the government" which I have to pay for. And a government that panders to the free-lunchers to buy their votes.

That's what sets off my bells and it should set yours off too.

If China & Russia pull their money out, then we're bankrupt! So our govt has to keep allowing China to walk all over us. Have any of you ever been to China, they laugh at the insane amount of money they receive from you guys. In ShenZhen, the joke is on You. You see they don't buy your products, but you buy almost everything from them.

Yes the NE states that are predominantly democrat strong holds are losing citizens who what to live free of oppressive taxes just like those who sailed from Europe to escape King Georges Church of England and oppressive taxation with out representation.

The latent effect is that those states have also lost electoral power because as the census showed mass exit of citizens. 14 electoral votes went south for good.

The reason the "north" has lost so many jobs is because the "south" largely became "Right to Work (for Less)" states which undercut wages and union rights thus, manufacturing moved there and depressed wages--that is, before the great migration outside the US that has caught up with the south now as well. The race for the bottom began once we quit being "united we stand" and the loss of sound tariff policy. When HH income levels haven't raised in two decades, you can see how sustainable these policies are.

there is a lot more to it than that. the reason jobs continue to move south is because the cost of living is so much lower. yes, the wages are lower, so technically the "for less" is true. however, when you spend 1/3 as much or less on a house, you can live a lifestyle beyond what anyone in the north could dream of for that "for less" wage.

i live in san antonio and tech jobs are coming here like crazy. californians are moving here to work for those tech companies. san antonio may not be beautiful and have perfect weather like silicon valley, but clients and customers paying for a product don't give a crap about where you live and are not going to help pay for your ridiculously overpriced house if they don't have to. your wages may be higher, but they are higher because they have to support the overpriced area that you live in.

as businesses move and the remote and virtual nature of the work we do continues to increase, the physical location of the work force doing the work is less important, so customers are going to go where the price of the product is cheaper, like texas. it's the same concept as moving production overseas, but at least it is here in the U.S. if you live in a stupidly overpriced area, that is your own damn fault.

Having lived in San Antonio, north of the 1604 Loop, with a view to Hill Country - and then the house was under $150k, but I can see it online and it's under $200k - no wonder you are getting jobs. SA is more affordable than Cali, and a fun place to live - we loved it. Had to move due to a job promotion, but would jump at the chance to move back. The only bad thing - fire ants.

Your own Government robs you blind..They all sleep in the same bed with out changing the sheets..

LOL come on Now its the State Capital...

Dumb and Dumber, I sure hope you feel better after all that. Breathe in. Breathe out. What's this got to do with President Obama? What does this have to do with anything other than a loan for an incinerator in Harrisburg, PA? It's their problem, and it appears from the article that the proper and necessary action is being taken.

Gee there are many socialist leaning countries doing better economically than the US - Taiwan, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Canada, Australia (they do have universal health care), etc. So I do not buy your rant about socialism being the end of modern civilization nor do I think capitalism is. I believe in a mix of both which serves all of the citizens of a country not just a few at the top and the bottom.

Jimbo...Yes, that happens all over. Cities keep annexing and taking the tax support base away from counties. The counties funded the infrastructure and many times the cities get all that at bargain prices...Then the cities seem to not want to support the annexed areas with services....they just want the tax money.....

Then the Federal government takes an even larger portion while telling the cities and towns that they have to cut expenses cause the feds cant afford to help them out any longer.