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Subscribe to RSSGlobal stock markets fell in lockstep this week because investors all share a common fear: The world is slipping back into recession and governments around the world are powerless to stop it.
Two years after the world emerged from the worst financial collapse since the 1930s, a repeat is looming. European Union officials have been unable to forge a political consensus among the union's 17 members to head off a debt default by Greece. Some of Europe's banks won't have the capital to withstand the expected losses on their holdings of Greek debt.
European leaders are now preparing for an "orderly" default, according to published reports.
Though they've cobbled together a fund to backstop Greece's $500 billion debt, it's not enough to cope with a possible default four times as big by Italy, which is in the early stages of the downward spiral that sank Greece.
"Greece is gone, the markets know that," Allen Sinai, chief economist at Decision Economics. "We're now looking at Italy and Spain and the potential for Italy going. And that's what's so scary."
Scarier still is the growing sense that Europe's political leaders are powerless to stop the downward spiral. Despite repeated assurance that they are prepared to act, European officials have been paralyzed by deep political division over the issue of whether wealthier countries like Germany and France should bail out their weaker neighbors. As the crisis has deepened, the political divide has widened.
Leaders of the 20 largest economies, meeting in Washington this week, made yet another pledge to act.
"We are taking strong actions to maintain financial stability, restore confidence and support growth," the G-20 joint statement said. "We commit to take all actions to preserve the stability of banking systems and financial markets as required."
But there was little indication of what those actions might be.
The stock market appeared to find a bottom Friday after a week of heavy selling that wiped out roughly $1 trillion in market value as measured by the Wilshire 5000, one of the broadest market indices.
The strongest action of recent weeks has come from the U.S. Federal Reserve, which Wednesday announced a historic, and highly unorthodox, program of reshuffling $400 billion worth of its bond holdings to try to push interest rates even lower.
But, because the plan is widely expected to do little to revive the stalled U.S. economy, the move only served to remind investors that the central bank has run out of effective options.
"The fear that it's all dependent on the Fed -- together with this mess in Europe -- is really getting people more and more worried, unfortunately," Jim O'Neill, chairman of Goldman Sachs Asset Management, told CNBC. "And there's just no sign of any true leadership in Europe."
The problems in Europe would be daunting even if a political consensus could be reached. Massive debts taken on by Europe's weaker countries have slowed growth, raising investor fears that interest payments on those debts may be unsustainable. Those fears have forced interest rates higher, raising borrowing costs, forcing deeper budget cuts, and accelerating the economic contraction. The downward spiral is now feeding on itself.
"If you take the debt of the periphery countries, combine them with the bank debt because they're joined at the hip, you come up with a number of about 5.5 trillion to 6 trillion euros ($7.5 trillion to $8 trillion)," Sean Egan, an analyst following the debt crisis at Egan-Jones Ratings Co. , told CNBC.
Even if only a third of that debt goes bad, said Egan, it's more than the stronger European countries can manage.
"Germany, which is held up normally as a savior, has total debt in the area of 1.5 trillion euros ($2 trillion)," he said. "It's unlikely they're going to be willing to double their debt to bail out the periphery countries. That is the basic problem."
In the U.S., Congress and the White House remain deeply divided over how to close a $1.4 trillion budget deficit, having succeeded only in postponing the day of reckoning until year-end. That process will only become more difficult as the presidential campaign intensifies the debate.
Compared to their European counterparts, U.S. banks are relatively well capitalized to withstand another financial crisis. And despite recent attacks by Republican members of congress and presidential candidates, the Federal Reserve remains a lender of last resort to U.S. banks, ready to backstop the U.S. financial system if another meltdown were to happen.
American companies, having paid down debts and raised mountains of cash since the Panic of 2008, are also better positioned to weather another financial shock.
But with a housing market mired in a four-year recession, unemployment at 9.1 percent and governments around the world slashing spending, the global economy would enter a new recession in much worse shape than when the last one hit in 2007.
That recognition has brought an abrupt change in investor thinking about how well companies will fare if they're entering a much more difficult economic environment.
"Corporations were generally happy about life in late August and early September '08 as well," said O'Neill. "When the financial system really imploded and financial firms stopped extending credit to anybody, the corporate world had to destock, and we know what happened after that. We are not far off the same sort of thing."
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Imagine that.
Wall Street creates such a big mess that even governments cannot get it cleaned up.
How's that deregulation working out GOP?
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did you read the article? The banks have lent the money to the Greek and Italian goverments, they are potentially defaulting on the debt. The banks may not have the capital to cover it. Liberal/Socialist governments spent without responsibility. Now the bill is due and they can't pay. Robert Traa from the IMF said that Greece has to CUT spending, and collect the taxes. NOT raise them as proposed.
Yes Jandrelczyk, you are right this is a world wide problem, not just a US problem. Obama does not control the world economy.
How about the investors who were betting big on Greece defaulting, and plan on making a fortune off it? I'm still not sure how that works. It's some financial trick, but it sounds a heck of a lot like plain ol' gambling to me.
When a volatile stock market can lead to an economic downturn, another recession is a self fulfilling prophecy.
The US needs a new stock exchange, one that prohibits hedging, short selling, and high-frequency trading; i.e., the tools of the trade that allow traders to leverage fear mongering and hype for the sake of making a quick profit.
Government leaders need to seize this opportunity to create a new stock exchange that encourages long-term wealth creation, and provides corporations efficient access to capital that is essential for economic expansion.
Good luck to those naive enough to think the self serving "Fed" will protect us.
The "Fed" is owned lock, stock, and barrel by the European Central Banks, and is a private, un-audited, strictly for profit group of greedy bankers.
Who actually owns the Federal Reserve Central Banks?
The ownership of the 12 Central banks, a very well kept secret, has been revealed:
___________________________________________________________________
Rothschild Bank of London
Warburg Bank of Hamburg
Rothschild Bank of Berlin
Lehman Brothers of New York
Lazard Brothers of Paris
Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York
Israel Moses Seif Banks of Italy
Goldman, Sachs of New York
Warburg Bank of Amsterdam
Chase Manhattan Bank of New York
_________________________________________________________________
Close the "FED", prosecute or deport all "FED" board members.
Free Citizens fear, Govt's can't prevent repression.
Banks can get the repo guys and seize the roman ruins. Take them apart and move them to the middle of Arizona somewhere:)
No, no, and no. Government needs to get out of the way and stop propping up failing institutions with taxpayer dollars. All the stimulus did is artificialy prop the markets. Government motors, BofA, any other institutions that accepted tax payer dollars should failed. Printing money --- which is effectively taxing the poor --- just prolonged the pain, and thats why the market has not corrected itself.
Shorting stocks isnt illegal, nor is hedging, or high frequency trading.. Whats your problem with them? Its like you want the government to run a stock market where peoples profits and risks are managed for them y the government.
Get government out of the way and let the markets correct itself by shedding bad debt. Its the ONLY Way.
LOL! Gambling is when the outcome is uncertain. Betting against the Socialists in Europe is like shooting fish in a barrel. Shorting Euro Index futures is a no brainer.
How is the last 3 years of increased regulation working out US1776?
"Investors" must be slow witted people if they're just now realizing that governments can't prevent recessions. On the other hand, governments can contribute to causing recessions...with socialistic energy, environmental, and tax policies.
Time for a new Marshall Plan and restructuring of world debt - and it's time for some wealthy folks to take the bath they've been needing for a few years now...the whole industry stinks to high heaven.
All the governments really need to do is take back the sole right to issue their own debt free currency without the private banks in the middle. Money can be created without the instant debt forced on it by the Fed. Its that automatic debt that we will never ever get out from under. That's how the banks game it and have for centuries.And the claims people make about how that would devalue the currency are full of it...that's part of the lie. Lincoln did it during the civil war and it worked just fine. Read your history.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qIhDdST27g
ObamaSZZZ2012: Are you aware that Glass-Steagle was repealed in 1993, and by Congress, not the president? Presidents do not repeal legislation. Also, regulating derivatives would take an act of Congress. The president does not make laws either, he only has the option of signing or not, laws that Congress passes. So you are advocating that Obama violate the constitutional powers of Congress.
It appears that the banking industry can't prevent recessions either. Nor can they fix the mess they created. And they got themselves into a fine pickle too. The governments can't even bail them out of the mess they caused this time.
ObamaSUCKZZZ2012: Glass-Stegall was repealed in 1999 by Clinton. It's likely one of the largest contributing factors to the current economic collapse. Do you even know what was contained in that legislation? It's part of what got this country out of the Great Depression.
I smell the beginning of a global currency.
Thank you GOP, thank you George The Dumbest-Ass Bush, thanks to all the Morons that is still today support these CRIMINALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And the best and most amazing thing is that this bunch of good for nothing are still preaching the same doctrine that got us and the world into this God damn mess, insane, evil A-HOLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You simply cannot borrow your way to prosperity. This holds true regardless of party. Blame the GOP. Blame the Democrats. Blame Wall Street. But in the end, blame yourself for continually voting for corrupt fools.
Ron Paul is RIGHT (and has been for decades now).
You have a point here. People freak out when they see the stock market fluctuate, yet it is all based on fear. Over the last few months, the stock value of many companies dropped by 10% or more... does this mean that these companies suddenly became 10% less profitable over night? No. Look at yesterday, did companies suddenly become 5% less profitable in one day? Of course not. It is all based on fear and knee-jerk reactions.
Companies are extremely profitable right now, they are still sitting on hoards of cash. On top of that, they are running more efficiently on skeleton crews because the same work is getting done with less employees. Businesses have been preparing themselves for another recession... hoarding cash, maintaining low operating costs with skeleton crews. If another recession hits, you won't see the same bankruptcy and lay-off rate as the last one, except on wall street.
So Jhon the ONLY people that caused this was Bush and the GOP? If you truly believe this than you are the insane one.
The reason we aren't getting out of the recession is because we are in TOO much debt both personally and as a nation.
You can ask people to pay more in taxes because they are already broke, you can't have the Government collect more money because those that have it don't have enough to cover the problem.
1) repeal glass- steagall
2) regulate derivatives
Wait. So you call Obama 'OSocialist' and then you blame him for not imposing more regulation?
Do you even know what a socialist is? I get this feeling you're just throwing around words without understanding the meaning of them.
We need another Bailout but to the people it should of gone to in the first place but now it needs to be 4x what was done before and it needs to go to the middle class those who are making 30 to 100k a year. This will give our economy a large boost and it will be sustainable. First and foremost recipients must pay back all and any debt!
Then you can implement many of these parties ideas! Many good ideas from booth parties out there.
Drop the Bush Tax cut, across the board. Institute a National Federal sales tax. Federal spending will automatically decrease as Jobs are massively created but the trick is to incentivise these jobs to be created within the states.
Banks will then be able to bailout other countries with the help of China and other prospering countries. Keeping existing world market places in place.
Tom - Plymouth You're completely right, they're not the only ones responsible for the sh!t hole we're in people like you is too.
Collapse away fable minded ignorants, that's all you can do, you're going nowhere, the people sees you for what you guys really are, a cancer eating away the very fabric of our once great nation; the minions of the enemies of the Republic, traitors collapse away that's all you're good for!
FINALLY some common sense out there!~ Markets were NEVER developed by "governments" so it looks like folks are about time realizing that they cannot HELP markets either!! THEY NEVER COULD!!! EVER! The wizard has finally had the curtain pulled on him (including Obama)! All governments can do is create arificial bubbles with empty employment and worthless dollars.
For me? Buy buy buy....soon, the individual will HAVE to realize the truth and finally wander BACK into the market ready to RISK MONEY instead of assuredly making money by the wheelbarrow full!! AHHH those days when a 50 point rise was a fine day for Wall Street!!
Tom - Plymouth You're completely right, they're not the only ones responsible for the sh!t hole we're in people like you is too.
Collapse away fable minded ignorants, that's all you can do, you're going nowhere,
Look, I don't love the conservatives, but calling them names and having grammatical errors as you call them names and blame them make you look extremely foolish.
Maybe I'm just a little naive in believing people can still have an honest discussion about political and economic issues on newsvine of all places.
FactOfTheMatter You're right, I'm just sick and tired of the same people hurting themselves and the rest of us with their stupidity, but, nonetheless you're right thanks.
robert757 - better recheck your facts and beliefs
Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act was passed in 1999 and signed into law by clinton. This act essentially repealed the Glass-steagal act of 1933
According to the US constitution no law can be enacted without the direct approval by the house, the senate and the president. However congress can override a presidential veto to pass a bill into law.
Presidential passage of any bill is not an option, he is required to do one of two things...
sign it
veto it and send it back for revision whereupon congress can overide the presidents veto
A third option does exist however for a bill to become law, if the president does not sign or veto it the bill automatically becomes law after 10 days, excluding sundays.
The collapse is inevitable, there is no more fiat money to borrow or lend. Or, rather, they can print momey til they run out of trees and it will only make things worse. The best thing that governments can do is stock up on the necessities to have on hand. It will right itself if left alone, meaning, get rid of the debt creating banks, quit loaning to the insolvent and expecting them to pay it back. Someone mentioned global currency, this is a very serious possibility. Is it a good idea? Nope, that just means the new world order and the ones manipulating the money will now become the government.
there is no more fiat money to borrow or lend.
What would you have other than fiat money? You know there's not enough gold in the world to support the value of the entire world economy.
"Investors fear governments can't stop new recession" - With the Obama regime actively engaged in a war on prosperity, it's not surprising that investors are jittery. (just like corporations and small business owners are reluctant to spend or hire). It looks to me like the promise of "hope and change" has quickly become the harsh and bitter reality of economic despair and broken dreams. Obama is failing miserably and will probably go down as the worst president in US history. Jan. 20, 2013 cannot arrive soon enough !
fact - no one said that gold couldn't be valued at $50,000/ounce.
Mygirl1 has some of the right potential options. More likely a serious global economic collapse would return us to a barter system and a monetary system based on whatever we all thought was of value to trade.
Eric wrote:
Nor does he control the US economy. "Running the economy" is not one of the president's powers, nor should it be. There's not much Obama can do to help directly. There're many things he could do to harm us further, e.g. pile on more debt, more subsidies, more bailouts, or by refusing to face the debt monster squarely. So far, I'm not impressed.
There are three things that he could do that will help indirectly and cost nothing.... less than nothing even. One, end the illegal wars, all 2 1/2 of them. Two, end the drug war. Three, radical tax simplification.
Greece's going under, Italy is next, and Spain too. It all boils down to the fact that neither the E.U. nor the USA are competitive enough to face the economic challenges posed by the emerging third world countries, where labor is much, much cheaper. But there is an investment that is sure to accrue excellent benefits, investing all our faith in Lord Jesus Christ, who is a solid foundation to build our future upon. The global economic trends don't have any effect on the Kingdom of God, where the value of faith is always on the rise. Let's invest all our assets on the solid foundations of Lord Jesus' kingdom!
Halt a new recession? We havent gotten out of the original one yet!!!
Hey Newly-Independent,
You are right that stock value decreases are not reflective of a similar decline in current profitability. But thank goodness this isn't how stocks are valued, which means your argument has no benefit to the debate. The problem might be fear, but it's a rational fear, and is based on the idea that we continue to do the wrong things to repair our economies. We continue to remain focused on the wallpaper and not the concrete foundation.
It's the fundamentals that got us into the mess we are in, not deregulation. And it will be the fundamentals that get us out of the mess we are in. Spending more than we take in is bad fundamentals. Regulating business to the point it is easier to set up shop overseas is bad fundamentals. Exceeding the limits placed upon our federal government by the constitution is bad fundamentals. Paying people enough money to NOT work is bad fundamentals. This list can go on for a long time without repeat. The point is that so long as we continue to violate the laws of economics those laws will continue to slap us around.
If we want a pristine environment that is fine, but it comes with a cost. If we want social justice that is fine, but it comes with a cost. If we want a never-ending supply of free stuff from the feds that is fine, but it comes with a cost. Stealing money from our unborn heirs in order to avoid these costs can go on only so long as money will be loaned to us for that purpose, but regardless of how long it goes on it will remain unethical for us to do this. We are the most unethical/immoral generation, and the hell of it is that our kids and grandkids will be compelled to suffer the consequences we richly deserve ourselves.
Fiat money is what we have currently and its value is based on what? Hyperinflation reduces value to the point where there's not enough paper to buy a loaf of bread. If a country cannot sustain itself, and by sustenance I mean the necessities of life, they have to borrow. Japan is a case in point. Here in the states we do have enough resources, we can grow our own food, we don't have to buy it. In fact, we could be a completely self-sustaining nation but as a result of globalization we have lost that realization.
During the Great Depression many families stayed on their farms and fed themselves. Today most people live in the cities and cannot sustain themselves, hence the need for government support. If the situation does get bad enough you will either see complete chaos or else you will see people banding together to help one another. There will be a quantum shift in values, survival will trump frivolity. The situation may never get this dire and I hope it doesn't come down to the gloom which is daily predicted. Personally, I think that people will start becoming more self-sufficient, despite the government.
Hey United States 1776,
Too bad none of these problems are caused by deregulation. Greece didn't wildly overspend because regulations to prevent their spendthrift ways were absent. Ditto for Italy, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, and others.
Our own problems in the USA aren't related to deregulation either, particularly since we have far more regulations now than in previous decades. I think the problem IS regulation related but not necessarily that all regulations are bad, or are designed to produce a bad outcome--I don't think that is the case at all. Take the sub-prime loan fiasco for instance...Because the feds encouraged, through law and regulation, banks to loan to people unable to repay the notes, and because the feds through Fannie and Freddie were buying up large quantities of that risky paper, those loans were made and made in large quantity. This was stupid on its face, and yet when an attempt was made to rein in the problem the president got no help from Congress, and in fact was called some nasty things by members of Congress.
And then people like you, imagine this, voted for those same people in Congress to continue to play the free-stuff game we seem to love in the USA. Of course when the bubble burst people like you looked for anyone but yourselves to blame. Had interest rates and a real risk of asset devaluation been allowed to fluctuate with the market the bubble would never have reached the size it did, and the damage from it would be more easily manageable. Your good intentions have helped to create the problem you want to blame the GOP for...Brilliant.
Your post is just plain stupid. Your facts are not facts. Deregulation is exactly the cause of our problems coupled with greed. The only Republican that has a clue as to the problem is Ron Paul and the Republicans are too stupid to see it. The repeal of Glass- segal was signed by Clinton but it was the product of Rep Sen Byrd and the Republicans whe pushed it thru the Congress and Senate.
Jhon,
You're getting collapsed because you have nothing of value to share but a very one sided blame.
This economy, with Europe is about jobs, jobs jobs. And the outsourcing of Jobs. Germany is holding up Europe. They are a manufacturing country. Italy, France and Greece are not as hard core. Bring manufacturing back, and prosperity will follow.
Time for Tariffs. And Jhon. Clinton signed NAFTA starting the trend. Something that BushI started, will full support of the republicans. Both parties sold you, and us out.
Let's face it our government is far to inept to stop a nose bleed let alone something this complicated.
"And there's just no sign of any true leadership in Europe." Or America.
UnitedStates1776 "How's that deregulation working out GOP?"
Ask Bill Clinton - He's the one that signed it into law.
The REAL problem is that countries around the World have been living on credit, and their lines of credit are 'Maxed Out'. It's time to 'pay the piper', and with such massive debt on most countries books, it's going to be very painful.
With countries 'on the verge', this is going to be a recurring problem, with no 'short term solution' available.
With Obama's massive increase in spending over the last 3 years, we are in the same boat as the Southern Europeans. Obama's 'wealth redistribution' policies have just made things far worse, and he will be desperately looking for someone or something to blame.
Relax, there is nothing to worry about, give it about 10 months and Obama will announce that the recession has been over since Sept. 2011.
I think its time for the rich to consider a bail out, wouldnt that be different. Example Bill Gates alone has more money than some countries, Just an example.
Like a high speed train out of control, with NO BRAKES !!!..A CRASH is unstoppable.........
This is what happens when you have too manny social programs run by governments, and the wealthy 10 or 20% of the people control 8o% of the worlds wealth , what did you expect? Cake.
Big government wants people dependant on government, and social minded people buy this crap go figure. The problem is it wont work. take care of yourself, that stands a chance of succeding for the individule, and the individule that succedes in his/her own affairs bennefits while the only ones who suffer are those who didn't try. then we can see how we can help the ones who need the help versus carring for the deadweights...
One more statment, Stop buying foreign made junk buy local demand products made in your own country. put your neighbors back to work we cant compete with slave labor from overseas, its draining our econemy. our well is running dry. It will only get worse, its up to you.
It's going to get really interesting being the FIRST recession is not over and a second one is starting, with 22+ million already Unemployed I wonder how many people will lose everything they own this round, and whats worst is this round is going to be worst then the first one, with gas alreay $3.50 a gallon, I bet 40% of the people that post here will soon be unemployed, yep, lets all vote GOP and see if we can kill off the rest of our country ...
Sounds like a Wall Street Investor to me, and we all know Wall Street Investors are the scum of the earth. They are why i cant eat AND Heat this winter, they are why i cant replace my worn out jeans, they are why my great, great, grandchildren will be paying off national debt from the day they are born.
Wall Street Investors are the most vile evil scum sucking bunch to walk the earth.
Have a nice day.
Rich-281... - nicely said summary, there is always a pricew to pay
fact - no one said that gold couldn't be valued at $50,000/ounce.
So wait, people who bought gold jewelry are millionaires now?
I think you're just finding a way to justify people who invested in gold when the bubble is bursting now when everyone realizes you can't eat gold.
In 1999 the Glass Steagall Act was repealed by the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. Those are three Republicans from a Republican controlled congress and current Republicans can't spin that into being three Democrats or a real bipartisan bill. It was passed by way of a compromise strategy: Republicans got their deregulation of Wall Street while Democrats got their Community Reinvestment Act legislation. Blaming Democrats for repealing the Glass Steagall Act makes as much sense as blaming Republicans for the Community Reinvestment Act. I did not support either bill. Government does not belong in the housing market, and I do not support Fannie and Freddie. I'll blame Democrats where it is accurate to do so. And I will squarely blame Republicans for the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act and deregulation of Wall Street.
Phil Gramm, an ex Enron lobbyist, was back the next year to get the Republican controlled congress to pass the Modernization of Commodities and Futures Act. In plain English, it provided Wall Street white collar criminal slobs huge loopholes to exploit for the Enron scandal, predatory lending, derivatives fraud and credit default swap gambling. That legislation was snuck into an 11,000 page omnibus spending bill and passed with no discussion. It was the very worst financial legislation in our entire history.
There is a 100 percent direct relationship between these two bills and having to deal with "too big to let fail" Wall Street giants in 2008 after their largest white collar crime wave in our history. Everyone needs to watch the 2012 documentary "The Inside Job." CNBC's documentary "House of Cards" is still being shown free online at hulu.com. PBS is showing their "Inside the Meltdown" at their website free online. There is NO authoritative support for the routine Republican talking point trying to blame Democrats for the recession.
And Republicans are still deregulating to help white collar criminal slobs!!!
Cantor Promises Oil Speculators That GOP Will Block Financial Regulations
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcXJR7eZ_jQ
I qoute :get_a_life
When a volatile stock market can lead to an economic downturn, another recession is a self fulfilling prophecy.The US needs a new stock exchange, one that prohibits hedging, short selling, and high-frequency trading; i.e., the tools of the trade that allow traders to leverage fear mongering and hype for the sake of making a quick profit.
Government leaders need to seize this opportunity to create a new stock exchange that encourages long-term wealth creation, and provides corporations efficient access to capital that is essential for economic expansion."
The fear in the market is just rubbish. What is really going on? The people managing your 401K plans have to find a reason to blow the money. So they sell and buy and say OMG. I am afraid with your money. They get there buddies to buy it. That simple. The fear mongering is a hoax and just to find a reason to swing the markets up and down so they can make a profit two ways. They sell at the top to the people running the 401k plans and buddies buy at the bottom.
If I am lieing get the stock exchange to have inquiry to look into this . I know I am right.
I will even tell you what you will find. 90% of the trades where there is a loss is done by the banks using someone elses money. Usually someones 401k plan. The ones making money always seem to be the smart people . They just are just lucky all the time ( sarcasm).
It might not come out. One day it will come out just like Maddoff. Its market manipulation. Can it be stopped? Yes to some extent it can be stopped but the Bankstas like stealing. THey 3 trillion. Why stop there?
What really happens in a recession? Companies sit around hoping that someone will fail. The banks work to help this happen. How do you think fortunes are being made? They are made when the times are tough. They want this. These guys are not rich enough yet.
There is a rich cartel in the boards of companies and CEO is part of it. We need to fix corrupt corporate law.
Now to cap it off with the worst thing of all. What took generations to build is being destroyed. Read this and research it if I am lieing. Then you will know what is really going on. While everyone is being asked to cut back, Check out CEO pay. Dont believe the rubbish about cut backs. These guys are going gang busters.
we can see what has happened to corporate performance in the last 45 years. In a study of 20,000 US companies from 1965 to date by Deloitte’s Center for the Edge (the Shift Index), we see a disastrous decline in performance overall in this peiod::
Meanwhile, on the right hand side, we can see what has happened to compensation. While corporate performance has been on this sharp decline, executive compensation has been increasing astronomically. Whereas in 1965, executive compensation was 24 times what the typical worker made,studies show that today executive compensation is a staggering 275 times what the typical worker makes.
In a more detailed study of the growth of U.S. executive pay during the period 1993-2003 by Lucian Bebchuk and Yaniv Grinstein, pay grew much beyond the increase that could be explained by changes in firm size, performance and industry classification. Had the relationship of compensation to size, performance and industry classification remained the same in 2003 as it was in 1993, mean compensation in 2003 would have been only about half of its actual size. In other words, executives were receiving increases in compensation that were twice what would have been justified by performance.
Meanwhile, during the period, compensation for workers has remained basically unchanged. Studies show that real average hourly earnings (excluding fringe benefits) now stand roughly at 1974 levels. Since the cost of health and education has been increasing rapidly, the actual standard of living of most people has been on the decline.
STOP THIS INSANITY. Write to your congress person. Its upto you. I know its a difficult subject and not easy to say simply. Just say CEO pay is job destroying for the boof heads on captial hill. https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml
Warren buffet said" The average american is paying to make the rich richer. I pay 17% coz i want too not because I have too, average american pays 33%"
I ran out of time ha ha ha.
Hey Stupid Dummy Investors?Yeah you out there!Psssst, come here,I have something for you.
IT'S A NEWSFLASH!Fears of not being able to stop the recession?Guess What Geniuses,Ready?
Let you in on a little secret.Despite all what these Morons called Economists were telling you?Here's a Surprise!!!!!!!
WE NEVER GOT OUT OF THE LAST RECESSION! HELLO PEOPLE WHAT PLANET ARE YOU ON?IT SURE AS HELL ISN'T THIS ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The criteria economists use to define a recession are different from what regular people use.
To most people, the recession ends when employment picks up and the average Joe has a reasonable expectation of job security.
To economists, it's purely a measure of GDP. If GDP declines for 2 consecutive quarters, it's a recession. If it climbs again, it's over. That's it. They don't look at Main Street or unemployment at all.
Which makes the term not very useful, really. People don't want to know when GDP is going up, they want to know when they'll be able to find work.
However economists define 'recession' is academic -- which is where most of them live, not in the real world.
You should also take into account that there are a few different ways to measure GDP. They will typically choose the one that fits their motive most. Just shows how much of a joke it really all is. I totally agree that we never truly got out of the recession in the first place. And technically you don't even know you are in a "recession" until you have already been in it for some time. It is sad that we base so much off of speculation... market, job growth, terrorism, national safety, etc... the list doesn't end. We, the people, disregarding parties, will be forced to regain control of this country from a few in power F'ing it up for everyone else. Can't wait for that day
Didn't it take about a year for them to declare when the last recession started? (and then they back-dated the start of the recession)
ron - yep I have even heard comments made that even now we may be in a recession, but just not know it until the economic data supports it.
Always thought it was interesting that there is a recession and then there is the recovery, two distinct events, one defined by GDP the other by employment'
Another fascinating aspect of both is that NO ONE has ever devised an effective plan of predicting recessions or what it takes for recovery to occur. To many variables I guess.
Now if we had an economist/mathematician/socialogist like Hari Seldon from Asimovs foundation series of novels this would be childs play.
Economists, give me break.
In my next incarnation I want to come back as either an economist, a polititian or a weatherperson. They are the only people I know that can be wrong all of the time and still make a decent living.
George Bernard Shaw had it right:
"If you took all the economist in the world and laid them end to end they would reach no conclusion"
Keeping it simple, thanks Gloria
What did the government and the Fed due to prevent the 2007 housing market collapse and resulting economic recession? More people need to come to a basic understanding that the two events are connected and were the obvious result of an absolutely blatant scam. Predatory lenders were mass producing tens of thousands of junk mortgages and loans, Wall Street giants were putting these into bundles to sell, rating agencies were lying their butts off to grossly over rate the bundles. Then when buyers had a chance to study what they had purchased, the found toxic loans that were beyond redemption. Wall Street $crewed the world out of $20 trillion with that scam (estimate of "The Inside Job").
Greenspan, Paulsen, Bernacke, Giethner, and other "experts" all knew about what was happening but allowed Wall Street to merrily keep $crewing the world.
"We are taking strong actions to maintain financial stability, restore confidence and support growth," the G-20 joint statement said. "We commit to take all actions to preserve the stability of banking systems and financial markets as required."
Confidance in both the economy and ALL governments have failed.
What is the government going to do? Give more tax breaks to large corporate business. And those business decide NOT to hire, because no one is buying their product.
Hard to buy jack @!$%#, if you don't have a job. Or a pay raise. Or a f'ing bonus.
BINGO my friend BING0!It's more like buy Bull Sh it!We really don't want to insult the name of Jack,in front of these Greedy Morons.
Gloria we did get out of the last recession. GDP grew each and every quarter since Obama was elected.
http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/gdp_glance.htm
Eric-913730: thanks for letting everyone know how great the economy has been since Obama took office.
Eric, why do you keep spouting off about the GPD? The GPD, according to your link, peaked Q1 2010 and has been falling ever since. Take off the Obama blinders...
Yes, GDP has been falling since Q1 2010, but it has been above zero. The definition of a recession is that GDP has to be below zero (negative) for 2 straight quarters. It also has to be positive for 2 straight quarters to declare an end to the recession.
But, for all practical purposes, yes, we are still in a recession even though it won't be called one for a while yet.
If what I'm reading from some folks is true, Obama is the only branch of the U.S. government, is responsible for everything that is currently wrong in this world, and everything that ever went wrong throughout history. It's not like there are other elected officials who have any responsibility for anything.
because GDP is still positive since Obama took office. SLOW GROWTH does not equate to NO GROWTH or NEGATIVE GROWTH, so just stop the lies about the President's reversal of negative growth into POSITIVE GROWTH
Like-wise, Bush left wityh a hemoragging of 700, 000 jobs a month. Within a year it was back in the positive. Obama stopped the bleeding and pointed the needles North. Sorry you Teahadists just cant admit it when you are factually challenged
Tim,
If you back out the portion of GDP growth that was simply fueled by the growth in public and private debt, there's been no net GDP growth in the U.S. since the 2nd year of Clinton's second term as president.
After accounting for debt (again, public and private) and population growth, there's been no net growth recently either, so Obama's accomplished nothing. And Bush and Clinton are just as culpable as Obama. (But you might want to ask your typical "Teahadist" if Bush was any better than the other two. I suspect the answer will surprise you.)
As to Obama's jobs record, sounds like you need to get out more...
Eric sweety, it was a Facade.It was only a dream.Believe me!
You name a lot of Financial Giants, call them partners of Big US Banks. The Fed is a little different. It is a Corporation/Federal Organization. Member USA Banks pay to belong on a yearly basis. They get to distribute paper printed by the treasury at printing cost, and pay the profits back to the US Treasury minus 6% tax free each year. These Centeral Banks then loan to other member banks at the Going rate/%/organized agreement. It is probably the First Corporation. Political appointees and elected board, free of Government intervention but under Congressional oversite. There are world Finiancial Giants who parter up with the Fed Central Banks and also the World International Monetary Fund. It gets quite complicated, and I know somewhere there is someone who probably understands all of complexities. Let it be said that NeoLiberalism/easy lending is the root of all this evil. Maybe some of the retired in their 50's need to go back to work to support the ones in their 70 and 80's. Who can say for sure. It's probably an individual thing/physical dissabilities and all. I know I wouldn't want to have to say I'm a physical wreck.
O'Bagger couldn't stop a Mexican from climbing the fence, and you think O'Bagger can a recession? Let us get out of the first one (2007-2011 and still counting) before the next Republican
? how many of yoy brilliant shinning people were around when this country was doing good? hoe many of you are say 50 years old dont you remember when the world bought american made products and the working class american could offord to buy their own insurance if they chose to, and put their children throu college on one income per household. get real we have been commiting financial suicide for 50 years at the encouragement of the bleeding heart liberal, enough is enough snap out of your dream world, back up and try something that will work, bring back American industery. demand to put America back to work, Logging, manufacturing, steel industery, take back what you forced overseas, dumb a$$es you people did all this to yourselves, and it was for nothing, yoy chop of your right hand then you cry because its gone, America was a country That could stand up to anything now I just dont know, Ship building gone, minning gone, timber gone, manufacturing gone, every thing else going, going, gone. what gives you people the right to b!tch, your all suicidal, did any of this $hit make a difference to world quality no you just moved the smog from LA to Beiging. Where we cant do a damn thing to reduce it. now you cry about Greece going under, because of SOCIAL programs that you demand our government adopt let me say something you have all the #ucking ansures you fix it. the first thing you must do to find the solution is look in the #ucking MIRROR and identify the #ucking problem. and when you run to WallMart and buy that American brand toothpaste made in China do not cry to me about why you can't feed your children. you $tupid people wake up.
@D Buck: Supply Side Economics. Deregulation. What the Markets Will Bear Philosophy. These are the culprits of US financial woes. Ronald Reagan-Phil Graham fathered this wealth class warfare.
It is your fellow super rich Americans who bring us the toothpaste. They do it so they can make $100 million a year instead of an honest $10 million a year.
SSE is destroying us.
At least you are thinking, dont buy that product. My earlier post condems those rich people. there no ones friend.
There was a time in our history when we recognized how important guarding technology and its deployment was to our own survival.
Look at the track record of all post WWII presidents and who comes out as the best president for the economy? (drum roll) ITS EISENHOWER!!! He paid down most of the war/national debt and did so with no hesitation to heavily tax the rich and corporations. NO TRICKLE DOWN PROOF HERE! Just the opposite. Eisenhower is the anti trickle down example that destroys this theory. We had a near full employment economy based on producing tangible goods with no outsourcing.
Republicans in 2011 want to forget Eisenhower and then glorify Reagan, the first post WWII president to substantially increase the national debt. Reagan and the two Bushes account for $9.2 trillion of the national debt, over $11 trillion with interest added in.
What They Won't Tell You about the National Debt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1bZ-TiX8rA
In other words, tax cuts to the rich have always been put on the national debt tab. Why? These three presidents had excessive military spending that accounted for more of the world's military spending than all other countries combined. In short, the formula of tax cuts for the rich, tax loopholes for corporations and excessive military spending has accounted for about 77 percent of the entire national debt. And the Republicans are proposing the same old, same old voodoo, trickle down Reaganomics for the future.
Eisenhower, speaking Sept 1949 --
"In the industrial economy of the 20th century, our path lies down the middle of the road between the unfettered power of "concentrated wealth on one flank, and the unbridled power of statism or partisan interests on the other."
"We miserably fail to challenge the lie that what is good for management is necessarily bad for labor; that for one side to profit, the other must be depressed. Such distorted doctrine is false and foreign to the American scene were common ideals and purpose permit us a common approach toward the common good. It must be combated at every turn by both clear word and effective deed."
"The middle of the road is-derided by all-of the Right and the Left. They deliberately misrepresent the central position as a neutral, wishy washy one. Yet here is the truly creative area within which we may obtain agreement for constructive social action compatible with basic American principles, and with the just aspirations of every sincere American. It is the area in which are rooted the hopes and allegiance of the vast majority of our people"
"For intelligent management certainly recognizes the need for maximum income to workers, consistent with reasonable return on investment. With equal clarity, labor cannot fail to recognize the need for increasing amounts of risk capital to provide jobs for our constantly growing population"
...no Donkephant there
there are too many moving parts for any one government to solve and stop the current global economic crisis. It will play itself out over the next few years.
It sure as hell will and I can't wait to see the ending!
The ending could be a depression, who would be excited to see that.
If it means The BANKING CARTEL gets replaced by a system that does not depend on debt for growth.
Bring it on
Stop living in the MATRIX Eric.
"TRUTH is the enemy of the STATE"
Paul Joseph Goebbels was a German politician and Reich Minister of Propaganda in Nazi Germany
id be excited to see that. this is the end of their try of ruling this world. they base themselves on numbers, money. would we have classes without money system? no. how about a huge drug problem around the world?. no. poverty?starvation homelessness. the war in the middle east? no. this recession crap? NO .why because everything has to do with money.or resources that provide money i should say.
money money money. now its bringing the world down. and you all going with it.
id be excited to see this world come to an end. next thing coming down is religion. mark my words.
THE GREAT TRIBULATION BEGINS
Eric I am already there and so are tens of millions of other Americans.
One word: Corruption, Period. I feel better knowing there's a better place when this is all over!
Atlas shrugging, saved your A$$ from the CLIFF. Working fine, need more!!!
American liberals and progressives as they say "see, I told you so"
We're so eager to point figures at Obama that we won't look in the mirror. Article in the LA Times today about poor families that are supposedly struggling. One "poor" family had to sell their second car. Shows them is some giant tract home. Maybe they had to cancel cable? god forbid if someone had to give up their iPhone contract. Another is foreclosing due to a crappy mortgage. Of course, they had to have the big SUV, the giant house, the fancy appliances and on. I'm including my own daughter in this bunch though she is hanging onto the house - barely. And then she and others signed for an interest only loan to get all these goodies. Really. I'm no genius, but in my book that means reading comprehension is at an all time low.
The one that really got me though, was the family with FOUR kids, one on the way cause the wife didn't think she could get pregnant for some reason (newsflash, birth control pills & condoms can be free). The dad has tattoos all over his arms and neck and wonders why no one will hire him. The pic shows them huddled in a park with bags of Cheetos and bottles of soda all over the place. They did get some kind of temp housing, but were asked to leave (reason not given , but use your imagination).
The blame game is easy, but maybe look inside. Wow, during the boom times, did no one use their brain? I'm so thankful that I saw this coming, have two cars - a bit older but paid for. A low mortgage since we didn't need a 5,000 sq ft house with just two of us, etc. Took our IRA's out at the right time. Now, again, no genius, just maybe some not-so-common sense?
Simply put. The Financial & Banking Sectors have shoveled everything off the top for too long. Their appetite is so insatiable that even the collective of government taxpayers, and frauded consumers are no longer able to ante up the required funding to support hundred million+ and billion+ salaries.
I propose a pay cut of 90% with the savings "shoveled into Social Security, Medicare, and deficit reduction.
sorry - the US debt is to great, even taking 100% won't do it. The federal reserve reported earlier that the household net worth of americans is estimated at $58.5 trillion. Now we can get somewhere. If only we would all give a lot more. LOL.
http://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2011/09/americans_net_worth_falls_afte.html
couldn't quickly find info on what US businesses net worths are.
@american-#5.1: You said US debt is too great.
Not exactly. US has potential for greater wealth through science and innovation. And more importantly, much of US debt was incurred through fraud, manipulation, and non-existent paper transfers. A large portion of that can be recoverable through audits, prosecutions and seizures. After all, these debts are liable charges on the tax payer. Justice is for the taxpayer to demand.
Tea Party will not help. Forget them. They are cut and cover.
barry - I was referring only to current events and projections out at best 10 years.Also current wealth numbers. Up until 2010 any politician (L or R) had a penchant for spending more than what was brougght in.
Surely you don't propose that government spending continue without some type of government accountability?
Science and innovation is cool and we are still at the top there. Unfortunately for us, foreign students are more interested in science and innovation and attending our top universities to learn than American students. All the money we put into education hasn't changed this either. A student has to want to learn and excell and money can't buy that type of attitude. It can only facilitate that education for those that do have the attitude
No doubt our justice systrem is slow and clogged with technicalities and I put little faith in it giving the taxpayers anything but a small return of $$$ with any fraud convictions.
I haven't followed the maddoff recovery efforts, but I haven't seen any reports either where his victims have made any sizeable monetary returns. Hard to recover money that has trickled through the economy or hidden where it can't be touched.
Actually, the tea party has woken up most Americans to pay closer attention to government fiscal accountability. Even if they die out into political obscurity they did an important service to the country if we choose to not return to past policies (L or R)
As long as we have the TEA PARTY to help out we will not recover..... What a batch of Educated Idoits these Politicians are.....
Obamasuckzzzzz2012, http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/gdp_glance.htm
Look at the GDP chart. Notice no growth in the GDP under Bush and growth each and every quarter under Obama.
Republicans have no ideas about how to bring back jobs or the economy.
If you are going to continue to post a link, at least post a link that supports your blathering.
GDP has been above zero for 2 years only because of the unsustainable Bush-Obama stimulus programs. We've been in a "stimulus bubble" for most of that time and now that bullet has been fired and the gun is emply.
The GOP is really helping the situation aren't they OSzzz2k12.
I don't mean to say Obama/Dems are great, because they aren't, but the GOP is right there along side the Dems in ineptitude.
Eric-913730
Convenient how you fail to mention that this wonderful recovery was paid for by throwing a cool $1+ TRILLION on top of our already monumental debt each of the last two years, and we are gearing up to do the same for the next two years.
A household doesn't "recover" from the loss of income by running up booze and cigarettes on a credit card. Neither does the government "recover" anything by borrowing 40% of every dollar it spends.
The Repubicans indeed don't know how to "do it", but neither do the Democrats. Nothing in the economy is fixed by the government. It can merely force resources from one use to another, it doesn't make or create anything. The only other thing it can do is to lie and delude people to willingly enter unsustainable bubbles. Neither party KNOW anything, they just lead the useful idiots about by the nose. Until the rest of you partisans get that, BOTH SIDES, we're going to continue on this crash course. The longer we wait, the more brutal the inevitable results will be.
That goes both ways, and did you know if a third party won they still loose on the Electorial vote, something to think about. we cant win.
If the GOPers don't pass the Obama Job bills sooner, it is the global ones coming after us...
The government is too large, and continues to spend out of control! Economists are now projecting it will take 10 years for this cycle to turn around. Oh happy day!
x
This is the problem with this country and why we can't get out of this recession. The belief that gvmt can "get us out of the recession" is flawed to begin with. The gvmt does not have that ability. Only the private sector can get us out of a recession. So the gvmt should be pushing through policies that give the private sector confidence in the future AND stay out of the private market as much as possible. Then, and only then, will the private sector begin hiring and expanding again.
So let's look at what Obama has been able to "accomplish" in his short 2+ years:
1) Passed ObamaCare which will SIGNIFICANTLY increase the cost of business. That by itself has been catastrophic and if ObamaCare actually initiates it 2014 requirements you will look back on the economy today (Sept 2011) and remember how GREAT it was. If this catastrophe gets fully implemented this country will never recover.
2) Passed Dodd-Frank Financial reform. The details of this law are still not decided but one thing is for sure - it will significantly increase the cost of business (hiring lawyer/accountants/etc.) so businesses are waiting to find out what the actual impact is.
3) Significant regulations passed. Just last month 5,000 new regulations took hold. New regulations mean more gvmt involvement in business as well as the increases in the cost of business.
3a) For example, due to new EPA rules 5 coal powered plants are closing losing over 600 jobs AND energy bills will be going up 10% to 35% in that area. More cost to business AND more cost to consumers will not fix this economy.
4) Constant threats of increased taxes. The "class warfare" has gotten out of control and businesses are seriously concerned what their costs will be in the near future. When business cannot anticipate costs then they wait. When they wait that means very little hiring and/or expansion.
When you look at what Obama has "accomplished" (above) I quite frankly am amazed our economy is not tanking further.
Let's be very clear here: The condition our economy is currently in is not a "mistake". This is the plan of Obama and the Democrats. Make the economy poor and then promise the gvmt will take care of you if you vote for them. This economy is by design and there is no other reason. Any person who has taken a college economics course (and passed!!) know that the above items cannot BENEFIT an economy but hurts it. So either this president is incompetent (which I don't believe) or creating a failing economy was the actual intention. I suspect the later.
I am so sick of hearing about how business is going to get us out of a recession and government is going to overtax the rich etc. Bottom line is the consumer is going to get us out of this recession and no one else. I mean that if demand for goods is not there then no companies will create something, hire workers,etc for goods. Stagnation occurs when disposable income is below the level to create demand. Something all you supply side economists fail to realize. Something else that has been undiscussed seems to me to be two issues and that is that demand for many goods has been dissolved by technology. The five hundred dollars a month that the American consumer used to spend on goods and services are now being spent on internet,phone,and cable. PC sales are dirt now. So many drivers of the economy along with the rise of the use of phone apps has taken away a chunk of goods purchased. Think GPSs etc. Blockbuster brick and mortar etc. All these influences along with an aging population who has two cars already and don't care about the latest greatest thing are not driving the economy. I haven't bought anything but a new phone in at least two years... haven't had a raise in 3 years and have had to borrow from my 401K to pay the bills... This is where demand is right now and I don' necessarily think business is going to drive us out of it with tax breaks for them. It might put more money in their retirement fund which some banker will skim. Again, it is the consumer that will get us out of this mess. What do you think of this?
chamm32: the internet, phone, and cable ARE services.
If you're spending $500 a month on internet, phone and cable, you SERIOUSLY need to bundle.
I pay around $200 a month bundling, and consider that too damn high.
OOOOH, I pay $103 for internet/phone and consider that too high! So, what does everyone else pay?
ProBusiness I agreed with your assessment until you started blaming Obama. That is the problem with most of these discussions. We just blame one side or the other. Everyone is partially to blame. Lets not worry about placing blame. Lets work on solving the problem.
Let me spell out what I think is going to happen. As Greece goes bankrupt in the next month or two, their economy will collapses and the majority of their citizens will be thrown into poverty. Seeing this Americans will push through cuts in government programs and tax increases on the rich.
We currently have about a 25% unemployement rate for Americans between the ages of 18 and 30. These cuts in government spending and higher taxes will slow the economy further. The main cuts will have the greatest effect on those aged 18 to 30 because there will be very little modifications to SS and Medicare. Therefore, programs that help poor under age 30 will be cut dramatically.
These young unemployed people will riot and loot damaging the economy further. People will stop investing in US treasuries because the country is no longer stable. The Federal reserve will buy almost all of the Treasury's the US government needs to keep running, significantly increasing the money supply. This will cause mass inflation, since each dollar will be worth less so everyone will have to charge more for whatever they sell. Salaries will stay relatively constant because of the high unemployment.
Very soon foreign countries will stop accepting US dollars because they are deflating so quickly. The US economy collapse. Then we get to start over as a third world country.
It is unlikely that we will be able to prevent this from happening. However, it is possile. The easiest way is for all governments in the US from stop paying for any medicine. That is the root cause of our problems. If government did not pay for medicine the cost of medicine would drop in half or more. Most people could afford it again. Those that cannot afford it would not get it. It is unfortunate but we do live in a capatalist society. Medicine should not be free. If it stays free our economy will collapse and the vast majority of us will be living in poverty. I will take loosing free medicine over the country collapsing and living in poverty. How about you?
Probusiness: excellent post - this is really economics 101 - a basic college level course - and yet most don't seem to get it. You're post is spot on - Democrats put this right into the position they wanted it to - sad part is many people were telling us this prior to electing Obama - the health care bill that was forced down our throats was sad, so much money and will just break our nation - he should have been so engaged with the economy instead of the healthcare bill. AARP, AMA and several other organizations have changed their stance on the healthcare bill as well - they say it's not sound now and unsustainable - again, exactly what people had been saying. Oh well, seems this President has millions of willing lemmings on his side....
A reasoned post until you get to the typical Teahadist paranoia. Watch out man, those Black Helicopters are coming for ya' (chuckle)
Also.....Business says...extend the Bush Tax cuts to gove us more 'certainty'. we were told hiring would ensue. What Happenned? Obama ok's extension of Bush Tax .....no hiring
Business says, extend the debt limit! Give us certainty so we can hire. Debt limit extended.....no hiring
If Business is just waiting around hoping to elect a GOPer to repeal everything from safetty laws to the minum wage and product safety laws....or more lavish tax breaks, then they (and American workers) will be waiting for a long time . The last tragic laugh may come in a year from now when people catch on to the Job Hostage approach from the Teahadists and we declare our own 'uncertainty'
If Im uncertain, I dont 'consume'. I dont spend. Last I checked, businesses need people to buy their products to survive . NO JOBS...NO MORE PURCHASES except for essentials
Chamm32, I notice that no one agrees with what you are saying. We will never get out of this mess simply because people don't understand when the consumer's ability to spend money decreases the economy doesn't grow. You understand this and so do I. It's such a simplistic concept yet there are so many people who want to blame environmental regulations, taxes, entitlements, lazy young people instead of engaging their brain. The average CEO makes much more than the average worker does now versus the 1960s.
Whynot-2284594, the government should quit using our tax money to play world police. You say a bunch of crock about free medicine yet nothing about free money for energy companies, free money for banksters, and free money to continually supply basic necessities to failed nation states across the world. Also that medication is not free, you still have to pay for it even if you are receiving medicare or medicaid. The cost is just reduced.
I'll take loosing our status as World Police/lender of last resort over our country collapsing and living in poverty, how about you?
Phil Johnson, I agree with you. I would cut the military by 50%. We would still spend more on the military than any other country on the planet. I would eliminate foreign aid. Why should we borrow money to give to other countries? I would Streamline the tax code. Eliminate duplication in government agencies, and many other improvements in governments in this country.
However, all of those combined will not get us out of our current financial perdicament. When I say governments should not pay for medicine. I am not talknig about perscription drugs. What I am saying is that no government in the US should pay for any health care costs at all. Medicare and Medicaid go away. Veterans health benefits are replaced with cash payments so they can pay for their own medicine. State, Federal, and local government employees get pay increases to offset part of the complete loss of medical coverage.
That by itself solves our fiscal problems. The other improvements to government allow us to reinvest in improved education, infrastructure, and other domestic programs tailored to strengthen this country.
I would stop the damn imports , and go after those damn oil speculators they can be broke, take $1.00 of the price of a gallon of Gas. stop wasted government spending, do every thing possible to bring industerie back to the US, instead of burning our forest and buying lumber from Canada, lets go back to harvesting our own lumber, makes more sense than burning it. limit what doctors charge, audit Insurance companies bring back our steel industrie, regulate the financial sector, pump our own oil, increase exports bring back Ship building, rebuild our infrastructure including rail, and the list goes on and on and on, the last thing I would do is travel the country or sit in Washington and talk $hit wich is about all that happens any more, aside of all those vacations that family goes on sure wish I could have me a vacation. Hell I cant even offord to drive to work.
Politics of the End:The World Wide Reset in Three Acts
Since there is no WPA technology job revolution, the knowledge workers of the great middle class have been destroyed. The collapsed economy is destroying two generations (parents/children) of Americans and has become a matter of national security. I love my country, America. However, America has outlived it's usefulness. The great experiment in democracy has failed. There is no way to stop the 3rd Great Depression. The slavery based financial system has collapsed. The 2nd Civil War has already commenced with the war of words about class warfare. WW III has begun as we've witness assassination, hear rumors of war, see collapse of alliances and watch world wide economic ruin spread. History is a never ending cycle repeating itself. Reset. Redistribute. Revolt. Retaliate. Rebel. Revise. Rebuild. Relax. Doesn't really matter who is Democrat or Republican. Black or white. Rich or poor. North or South. Right or wrong. The final phase of the Reset started in 2000. Redistribution was next-2001 to 2011. First, Arab Spring. Now, America Fall. In protest people have taken seign of state houses... now Wall Street. America's problem is much larger than "Obummer", "Dummacrats", "Repocans" and "The SupremeCorps". If America is to ever thrive again, we've got to stick together as a nation. A house divided against it self cannot stand. We’re all in the same boat and it is sinking fast. Counter productive name calling and finger pointing isn’t going to help us from sinking any faster. We have to work together to simultaneously plug the hole, bail out water, plot a course to dry land and row to safety before all is lost. Otherwise, our cities will burn like London.
(Act I) The 3rd Great Depression is upon us: “There is no such thing as
either The Great Recession” or "Double-Dip".
(1) Businesses and nations should continue to utilize a credit system, but
American consumer credit systems should be abolished because it is a human
rights violation design only to subsidize the wealthy. I seriously doubt
80%-95% of the former working class can afford to subsidize anybody. The
current American, perhaps global, "credit system" was designed to subsidize
the rich. The system is so upside-down that if you have good credit and
either don't use it frequently or use it too frequently your score goes down.
The rules are a systems of contradictions design around the concept of a dog
chasing it's own tail. In the end, you end up exhausted and nowhere while
the "market" gained your capital assets. Since the world has grown smaller
and the pie has grown smaller, the American poor (formerly working-class,
middle-class, creative-class, knowledge workers, etc,) can't "qualify" for
financing to support the existing American based slavery "credit" system.
Upon the end of American slavery, slaves were offered to remain on the farm
to work the land because many of them simply had no place to go. In return
for the offer, slaves were loaned equipment, supplies and live-stock on
dishonest “credit” terms and at “unreasonable” prices. Hence slavery mutated
into a new credit "slave" system designed to empower former masters. As America
continues to collapse, more people will wake-up to the new reality of
poverty as they learn the “credit system” is a hoax which only robs the poor
of capital and jobs while it advances the rich aggenda to control all wealth.
(2) The nation is up-side-down on the numbers which count. Initial 2009
estimates predicted 2017 as the actual date for job stabilization, but
2010 economist said 2022. Such negative growth projections will
translate into horrible quality of life living conditions for most
Americans. There is no way to avoid the pain… only delay the reality of
impact. Total 309 million Americans. Employed Americans 138 million -
Official Unemployed 14 million, but Actual Unemployed 25 million
(www.usdebtclock.org). Disabled Americans (16-64) 13.3 million
(com/disability/statistics/us-disability-stats.php).
Jailed Americans 1.4
million(degreesearchusa.com/t.pl/000000A/http/bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/).
American children 74.5 million (
americaschildren/demo.asp). Senior Americans
36.3 million are 65+ in 2004
(com/od/lawpolitics/a/senior_pop_demo.htm)
(Act II) Next, 2nd American Civil War: “Those who do not stand with me,
stand against me”.
Union rights .vs. State rights. Free state .vs. Slave state. North .vs.
South. Urban .vs. Suburban/Rural. Democrat .vs. Republican. Reformist
.vs. Traditionalists. Workers .vs. Owners. Conservatives .vs. Liberals.
Open system .vs. Closed system. The fight is still the same. The battle
for the heart and soul of America. The stakes are extremely high… “the
survival of the will of the American people” .vs. “the survival of the will
of the top 1%-5% wealthy people”. The debate is over. The conversation has
concluded. Survival is the most basic human instinct. Once the onslaught
of poverty, homelessness and hunger becomes the norm, the American people
will rise up as individuals have all throughout world history to form a
rebellion for survival. If the current Republican/Democrat high-stakes
“unemployment/jobs/small-business” game fails, there will be two groups of
99yers. If combined, these groups are poised to rebuild and reinvent
America from the ground up. It only takes a single spark to start a fire.
Regress, Rebel, Revolt, Revolution, Reorganize, Restart, Reinvent...
(Act III) The 3rd World War is waiting in the wings: “So goes California, so
goes the nation”
As California continues to suffer from state, county and city budget cut, so
will NY, NJ, IL, MI and others. In order to secure a seat at the table,
vultures will pick over the rema
So....the sky is falling? Is that what you are saying?
Makes sense up until end of Act III.
Government is NOT the source of our prosperity, it lives off of it. Every dollar taxed away from us is a dollar siphoned out of the engine of America's wealth and prosperity. Some taxes are necessary to provide a reasonably safe environment for us to freely pursue our own happiness and prosperity, but beyond that we are only robbing ourselves. This concept of limited government and personal freedom was a founding principal of the United State, and helped create the most free, creative, and successful society in human history.
In order to form a more perfect union and promote general prosperity...
No you're right, Government was never a source of prosperity. It was meant to promote prosperity. Where did the Teabaggers go wrong? When they promoted prosperity for those who had all the money. When they reduced taxes for those who exported our jobs to Communist China.
HNL, nice post.
for others, know that "I see stupid people and they do not even know they are stupid"
IMHO, in you small little world, there are buggy mans and Teabaggers, lol
there is alot that can be said about the Dem, Repub and Teabaggers, but you bias prevails.
Maybe we should tax business 110%, that will show them, that will get them to hire more people. I see so much ranting that amounts to senseless, emotional ranting.
Not wise, but can be entertaining!
the most free, creative and succesful society in human history? possibly true if you were a white protestant male....otherwise, not so much.
HNL, Come on now. That is so easy to say after we have collectively built the railroads, highways, airports, the mightyist army the world has ever seen, GPS satellites, the hydro electric system, and a subsidised aggricultural system that feeds much of the world. We have air conditioning and iternet off government paid for technolegies. Now all you anti tax folks want to enjoy what Rome built and not foster inovation for future generations? Most of the new technology coming down the pipe is funded, in one way or another, by government.
Until we have a better understanding of the nature of industrial economies and economies in general we will continue to create these problems and blame everyone and everything when the economies blow up.
Don. Did you know that not one bank failed in Canada during the great depression. Not one bank has failed in 2000-2011. Government in Canada does its job and oversees what it commits to oversee. We understand these complex transactions that have brought us down. They are called fraud.
Governments can't stop recessions?!!! Really?!!! Who-da thunk it? Then could it be true that the paper pushing desk jockeys in DC can only contribute to or cause a recession with confiscatory and bureaucratic policies?
Perhaps the paper pushing is more aptly applied to the banking system whereby the banksters are now making their fortunes pushing paper (derivatives) instead of investing in productive business?
Or maybe the paper pushing applies to the rich SOB's that exported our jobs to Communist China.
James: the banks loan to people who take risks to create a business. They aren't like a government handout system (stimulus).
IMHO Why did the rich SOB's (like Immelt and General Electric) do that? Do you really believe that government and Labor are pure as the wind-driven snow and are completely blameless in this? I will grant you the greed, but there is plenty of it to go around.
This is almost an exact replay of the 30's where in 1937 things went south again despite the New Deal. We never learn from history.
I thought it was the private sector that created jobs? Where are the jobs?
Wall Street firms are making record profits but there are no real jobs being created. Where is the statistical correlation between giving the rich a free ride and creating jobs? Oh, that's right, business majors didn't have to take any real math in college so they don't have any clue what statistics are.
Oh, so i guess i took all those calculus and statistics classes for no reason then.
Oh no Trance, you can apply your calculus in writing derivatives. I hear there is good money in BSing with calculus.
Yes, giving money to the rich SOB's creates jobs. It creates jobs in Communist China.
let's let the govt creat job! Let's be like Greece!!!!!!!
Greece suffered the same fate that is awaiting the rest of the world. The rich gained access to all the treasure through government purchases and then refused to pay taxes.
A simple analogy to ponder. If you have one carpenter owning 1000 hammers or 1000 carpenters with one hammer each, which scenario would get the most hammering done?
I'd like to do some hammering to those corporations that gave our jobs to Communist China.
James, are you just as angry at the 51% who pay NO taxes????
I have no issue with the repeal of the Bush tax cuts, even the ones for the lower income brackets, agree?
Much of Greece's problems is that they decided to implement programs that they could not afford, did think that had anything to do with it since it was the "right" thing to do. Now look at what happen- account overdue.
The US is in the same boat. When a govt models for it citizen that getting what you want has nothing to do with if you can afford it, you getting many mindless followers. Our account is overdrawn.
Poor IMHO may end up working for a China man one day........
Atlas, exactly - we have, as you posted, 51% of this country who don't bother to pay taxes. Imagine if the IRS put the effort needed into getting that tax revenue each year - would help our country tremendously. We also need to learn as a country there are no "free" hand outs - social programs all cost and eat up a lot of money - hurts us dearly in the long run.
Instead of whining about how 51 percent of people don't pay taxes the real question should be asked why are wages so low that 51 percent of people don't have any tax liability.
Phil - If we let the Bush tax cuts expire, the 51% moves to 40% without any wage alteration. The child credit increase accounts for the 11%. Yet many in this group continue to call for expiration because they believe all the benefits are for the rich.
Not a fan of Wall Street, but I'm sure not a fan of socialist governments. Everyone of them are in the tank, flat broke, from their entitlement programs...class warfare...and absolutely no concept of "BUDGETING." When you spend more than you make (take in)...WTF do you think is going to happen? Socialism works great till the money runs out.
Beev, let me ask you a question. If government could stop a new recession. Wouldn't they have stopped the old one? These headlines are written by morons for morons. Everything you wrote is correct but news isn't about reality anymore, is it? "Fears that the governments can't stop a new recession." Now that is a good one!
As long as the rich are taxed and the banks are controlled the money generally doesn't run out.
BEEV, were you one of those rich SOB's that moved our American jobs to Communist China? Seems communism works so long as you can treat the people as slave labor.
terriels, to ensure the money doesn't run out also means a nobility or upper class determines who gets how much money. I don't want to be anyone's serf. Not government or banker. Of the two, government wields the most power with the most incompetence.
I thought you wanted less government.
The world was doing okay, until NAFTA and the other free trade agreements, at least this country and Europe.
NAFTA....Nother Afternoon F'n that Azz.
Yes, WTO, green light to export jobs to slave countries like Communist China, Communist Vietnam, etc. etc. etc.
Hard to compete with slave labor.
Well DUH, Morons!!
Dont be mean
Investors (or more like it traders) are just out of touch. Of course our government could fix things but they are so partisan, arrogant, stupid and corrupt that they simply will not. All of the available avenues to fix this economy are blocked by special interest or dumb politicians. Obama is completely out of his depth and should resign immediately so we are can get someone in who knows how to lead. WE CAN FIX THIS PROBLEM!!!
And that leader would be...Hitler? Stalin? Attilla the Hun? ROFL
Why not? many societies in history have thrived under a tyrants rule, the Caesars, Herodes the great, Gengis Khan, just to name a few. sure many will suffer, but many are suffering now, and at least tyrants bring stability.
A good example would be Alexander the Great.
I think the only way government can help is not going to happen. Downsizing and getting out of the way is all they can do. Every cent the gov puts into the economy has already come out of that same economy. Thinking that the gov can somehow help is not logical when one realizes that it is the problem in the first place. Recessions are caused BY government.
Go Herbert Hoover! It didn't work in 1932 but it just might work today! ROFL
This is the path that some want USA to go down, these country's that are failing have allot in common with the unions of the USA.
Yeah, we should emulate Communist China. You know, where the rich SOB's took our jobs. ROFL
Obamanomics. USA in decline under his "leadership." If that is his plan, he is doing a good job. Hopeless change.
And your choice of leaders would be...Hitler? Stalin? Gengis Khan?
Maybe you want the leadership the Communist Chinese have. ROFL
Well IMHO-2730490 what woud you suggest. You seem to be adequate at making smart-ass comments, how about some REAL ideas?
When Bush first took office the Republicans were saying the biggest NEW threat to our country was/is China. They weren't exactly wrong but then they started the Iraq war funding for the wars came in part by borrowing from the very country they claimed was a threat to our security.
They the Republicans also claimed tax cuts fix everything. Well we know that's not true now but they still continue to espouse tax cuts as the ONLY solution. They may not have been alone in creating the mess we're in but they certainly did and have done nothing to help remedy the situation. They sit on their laurels in Congress (soon to be on a weeks vacation as a government shutdown looms) and still they do nothing hell they can't even agree amongst themselves.
Politicians cannot fix the the problems without cooperation from businesses and financial institutions who seem to be standing around with their hands extended looking for more bail outs or tax cuts (corporate welfare) while their CEOs make millions and millions and in some cases billions of dollars. They can't get rich without the little guy not only doing the work but buying the product and since businesses and financial institutions consider us to be nothing but expendable commodities nothing will change especially as long as politicians are taking handouts from corporate empires instead of calling them out to help solve the problems they too helped create.
LR
Here's a "real idea", elect someone who is pro-capitalism, pro American and pro-success, so the country can get back to the business of business with some sense of confidence and real hope that the socialists aren't going to punish Wall Street and all of the investors with their hateful, revenge-filled socialistic agenda .
I got some one in mind,but maybe ya don't want to hear it!
Folks, there is not much Obama can do. The mistakes have been done for many decades. This is not a problem created today. An entire nation cannot borrow non-stop for decades, inflate the money supply with borrowed money and then hope that all will be fine when the pay back time arrives. Deflation cannot be avoided after credit inflation runs it's course. Great Depression will pale compared to the coming crash. Reforms cannot prevent it. Cause is in place. Effect will follow. Any reform to regulate financial activity will be deflationary and will add fuel to the fire that is already raging. Obama's hands are tied.
www.tradingstocks.net/html/prepare_for_market_crash.html
I am a union member. I don't have to produce as much work as my counterparts in the private sector. I have wayyyy better bennies and pension plans. I have a contract that guarantees my security, cost of living increases and HCR that I don't have to pay for. And best of all I don't have to think about those poor slobs in the private sector that are sweating and bleeding keeping up with higher production demands and reduced wages paying my salary because I only read MSNBS!!! Yessiree, I'm gonna ride this pony till it drops!
Hey Jed, give me your address, some of your union buds want to talk to you about slacking off. ROFL
Yes jed233, you are obviously NOT a union member, but just trying to make trouble by pissing people off. While I'm not a big fan of unions, I'm also not a fan of big businesses screwing people. They are both corrumpt to a greater or lesser degree and you're not helping by deliberately trying to be inflammatory. I wonder if you're on the payroll of some big corporation and are paid to cause trouble like this...