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Subscribe to RSSRising concerns that the world is teetering at the edge of another recession drove Wall Street stocks lower Thursday.
Wall Street's major indexes all tumbled seconds after trading started and the selling persisted throughout the morning. The Dow Jones industrial average was down 300 points.
The morning after the Federal Reserve announced it would be attempting to boost the economy by migrating its Treasury holdings to longer-term securities from shorter-term debt, a move dubbed "Operation Twist," stocks around the world sank on the central bank's gloomy assessment of the economy.
Markets in Asia and Europe were down -- some more than 4 percent -- on the Fed's warning of "significant downside risks to the economic outlook, including strains in global financial markets."
Adding to the angst: Data came out showing factory activity slowing in China, the world's second largest economy; and Germany said business activity expanded at its weakest pace in two years in September.
The decline on Wall Street came even though the New York Stock Exchange invoked a rule designed to smooth trading volatility, Reuters said.
Economic indicators released Thursday did not help the mood. New claims for jobless benefits dropped in the latest week, but remained above 400,000. Economists say claims need to drop below that for an extended time to have any meaningful impact on the jobs market.
A gauge of future business activity showed that the economy would grow at a snail's pace in the fall.
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Don't worry, it will come back up again.
Let's give social security to Wall Street!
#1, right, it always does because somebody is manipulating the market. :) Anyway has anyone seen the Rick perry Ads for President? He calls President O the "zero president"....kind of insulting....considering how hard President O has worked to get legislation before Congress and been rebuffed. I'm just glad that Congress' ratings are lower than President O.
Matt, the bank bailout or TARP was to bail out bank customers by allowing banks stay in business to cover obligations like annuities or life insurance policies that would have been defaulting on if not. The government would have needed to cover FDIC insured accounts anyway. The bank's owners ( stockholders) were wiped out anyway.
Watch how Republicans will try and blame Obama today for the sag in the world economy. Like Obama controls Greece.
Republicans have already come out against "the twist", but presented no ideas to counter it. Look for more criticism and no new ideas.
Perry is out of his depth, all he has is "name calling" which Republicans are good at. I still say he has skeleton's in his closet that Romney will make sure are shown before long.
Back the Presidents jobs plan and call your representatives and tell them to put it to a vote. The whole thing, not just parts.
Obama has worked to get legislation before Congress that would get more votes for Democrats, but do nothing to solve economic problems. The economy will not recover until the US can compete again in the global economy.
Don, not true at all. Obama advocated green jobs. Republicans are even trying to undo that.
Republicans are clearly advocating deregulation of air and water as the way to bring back jobs....cough cough...to the US.
Eric, I don't blame Obama for the economy. There is no easy solution and it was not Bush or Obama's fault. The government is not telling us that there will be no recovery anyway until we come up with an entirely new growth engine, and no one has the slightest idea when that will be,
He advocated green jobs and I thought that failed miserably and the firm went bankrupt. We need something where the US can compete globally.
Just because the stock market has always BEEN cyclical doesn't mean it will always BE cyclical. What the world is facing now is unlike anything anyone has ever seen before. The strategy of running up debt like drunken sailors and thinking there would never be a day of reckoning has placed most economies of the world in real danger of total collapse. If Greece defaults (which now seems likely), they will likely have to go back to their old currency (abandoning the Euro) which weakens the whole EU. Italy is close behind.
The rug is REALLY starting to unravel, and the logic that "the stock market will come back up because it always does" is really a lot of Hope and Change based on nothing concrete except past history (which is not necessarily a predictor of future events). In less than a year, our entire planet could easily be plunged into total chaos as the world's economies one by one begin to collapse, with no one in a healthy enough position to bail them out. Those who bailed Greece out are losing their money. Who will step up now? No one. Who will line up to bail out Italy? Spain? Once the dominos start falling, they will topple quickly and painfully.
I hope I am wrong, but I don't believe that I am.
Bruce is correct. The world is constantly changing. Looking back in the past does not necessarily predict the future. My financial guy used the words that going by the past is similar to driving focused on the rear view mirror.
Don,
U.S. global competition can be summed up in three words: Made in America. Until this country reimports all the manufacturing jobs that - textiles, electronics, plastic widgets, appliances, etc - Washington so blythely let slip overseas, there'll be no new competition.
The green tech front does hold promise as part of the path forward. Yes, Solyndra went bust but that shouldn't stop us from pursuing these new technologies. Research into new pollution mitigation processes and technologies should also get attention in this country. China has become such an ecological nightmare due to their recent industrialization, it might be nice to reimport some of our dollars by selling them clean-up technology.
The Great Recession is about to enter the Double Dip.
Despite the $2trillion bailouts of WallSt FatCats and promises of "Green Shoots, Jobless Recovery, Soft Landing, Economic stimulus, and end of the Great Recession," America is finally allowing the recession to structurally correct the economic imbalances created by Big Government and the Federal Reserve.
Housing prices will finally be allowed to decline to market levels; poor investment punished; capital reallocated to more productive use; government regulations that interfer with the free market permitted to expire; taxes and Big Government reduced; and poorly managed business be allowed to die.
May be this time around during the Double Dip, America will do right.
"Made in America" is more easily said than done. We are now in a global economy and other countries are more competitive. Bringing manufacturing back is a good idea, but with the US less competeitive that won't be eeasy.
As mentioned before:
No one in this administration speaks: Dow gains traction.
Moral to this article: Don't talk....."Silence is Golden".
This one is not coming back:
www.tradingstocks.net/html/latest_opinion.html
DON9876543
Okay... so now if we can compete in the global market, which also is losing what little demand it had (China), we will sell what? At this moment our problem is not competition... nor is it too much regulation... or taxes... or even Obama.
No, our problem is demand... domestic and global demand. And what drives demand? CONSUMER CONFIDENCE. So what affects consumer confidence?
1) A government with political idiocy... we can't even pass a fricking budget without being held hostage. Would you invest or make major purchases under these conditions? No... no one would.
2) People see their 401K... their retirement hopes and dreams... disappearing before their eyes. Would you make major purchases while worrying about your future? No. Not on your life.
3) And between their 401Ks, their jobs losses, and their property losses people have seen their net worth cut in half or driven to zero... wanna buy a car now? No way.
4) And now, when we need SOME kind of action... SOME hope... there is none. The Republicans will not move on legislation because of tax changes supported by 80% of us... yet another blow to our confidence. Does ANYONE give a sh!t about the people any more? Ready to buy that new freezer? For what? We have no food.
Now we understand why Wall Street is dying... why our economy sucks... why we have no jobs... why it will take so damn long to recover. Projections are now moving from "when".... to "if".
I actually think "demand" may be more of a symptom rather than a root cause. Temporarily increasing demand by borrowing and spending may in the short term produce a few more jobs, but may be pushing much greater problems down the road. This "stimulus" stuff started with Bush ten years ago and Obama keeps compounding. It seems as though the stimulus is now permanent and will lead to us following Greece down the toilet.
The economy never significantly improved after the great recession until World War 2 when the US began building weapons to sell globally.
The proposed tax changes supply peanuts anyway and are way overblown by politics. Increasing taxes on the wealthy still leaves close to a 1.5 yearly deficit, so they will not solve everything as Democrats claim. I agree things are very tough and fell sorry for our children and the country we are leaving them. I just don't see any quick and dirty fix here.
IDO - That has nothing to do with it....
The Markets want more easy money or QE, this keeps the P/Es elevated and they can then push the price higher which is what most traders want.. Shorts are by far the minority.
The FED would love inflation so he could raise rates but consumers can't afford prices now without credit so its not going to happen. The Markets realize the FED can't do anything but JAW BONE so this will cause a needed correction.
BTW For all the China cheerleaders, some data came out today that clearly shows slow growth without the Government cooking the Books. China will be the bubble of all bubbles...
Our Markets are so dependent on Global Growth to keep their funds moving up and if you ask me thats a PONZI SCHEME of another sort..
I agree with your statement, but with one question: Who is the "us" that should be pursuing it? The best "us" has always been private enterprise left to it's own devices with government basically out of the way. Government did not bring us the automobile, the air conditioner, the cell phone, or the computer. Government is bad a getting things done. Private companies and individuals are good at it. The best thing government can do is to get the regulators and red tape off the backs of those who can solve problems and let them do their thing. Solar energy is not a government problem to solve. The paybacks are enormous for those who figure out how to do it well. Even government money involved just mucks it up (see Solyndra and LightSquared)....
It always come back to the basic differences between democrats and republicans. Democrats think we need more government trying to solve more problems, and republicans would prefer to see less government trying to solve fewer problems (and letting the unfettered private sector handle them).
You can't blame republicans or democrats alone for this mess. They ALL spent waaaaayyyy too much. Obama still sucks but it's just downright irresponsible to blame one party or the other. Hear that liberals? Stop blaming everybody for a mess that your boy had a hand in creating.
Rumble - Politicians owe everybody but the People who vote for them..
Don,
I agree with your previous post regarding the (non)effectiveness of stimulus... especially with the states mismanaging the money when they get it. And with the negativity surrounding it, there's no way it will increase consumer confidence. I do disagree with you on the chicken vs egg... demand drives it all. You can remove regulations and taxes all day long, but if nobody will buy your product, they won't make a difference.
Regarding your quote, above... Democrats have never said taxes is the end-all... that's a false Republican talking point. democrats have always said that fair taxation was just part of a balanced approach... keeps you from killing important programs.
The taxes on the rich scheme will not save important programs. the situation is way past the point where the peanuts we get (5% of yearly deficit) will save anything and is way overblown for politics. The "fair taxation" thing is overblown. Most all media outlets corrected Obama;s implication that Millionaires pay a smaller percentage. The tax he just propose probably does nothing anyway since the vast majority pay a much higher percentage than middle class and would not be impacted anyway. The reason for the anger at Obama is that it was a political "class warfare" thing.
I do think much of reduced demand is due to the US lack of competitiveness. This led to lost jobs . The lost jobs led to less income. The lower income led to less demand. I think it started when we became less competitive in the global economy. Also, more global competition reduced demand for US goods. That's why I think demand is pretty much a symptom. The reduced demand did not come first.
On the plus side, that European vacation you've always wanted to take may become very cheap.
Who will be able to take those vacations when all the jobs have been exported? All but Mcserver and walmart greeters of course, and those have been filled with illegal aliens.
That's the beauty of it Dennis, take a vacation to Europe and stay there because their jobs. America can be the first country to outsource itself to the world.
Okay GOP, what's your answer for the world economy?
Eric-913730. The answer is very simple. Get government out of the way. Democracies fail when people vote themselves money and benefits. we are way beyond that right now. Politicians in power know that and that is how they keep their jobs, by offering things we can't afford to people who are too lazy to work for them.
Cut off unemployment and welfare and see how many jobs we create. Cut off all the government regulations and taxes, and see how many jobs we create. We all like clean air, but it is also nice to have food and a roof over our heads. Once we get people back to work instead of expecting the government to provide everything, we can then start with the green thing. Right now is not the time.
It does get votes from the lazy and unenlightened though and keeps jobs away from those who actually want to work. Remember, Robin Hood stole from the tax collectors (the government) and gave to the producers. Not the other way around.
"New York Stock Exchange invoked a rule designed to smooth trading volatility" - and what rule would this be?
Maybe something like when the market is is frantic decline they stop allowing stocks to go to the real value?
Ah, the depression approach, let it all fail and it'll come back stronger.
Didn't we try that in the depression and it took us 10 years to get out?
Eric-913730---It took longer than 10 years and what got us back on track was the private sector. After the war, we started manufacturing refrigerators, autos, toasters, radios, TVs etc. That is what got us out of the great depression, not the government. The government has not or will not ever create wealth, they only take it. Government jobs last only a short time and are financed by taxes which only compounds the matter.
I wish some of you Libs would take a short course in economics before you make stupid remarks. You won't get many answers from MTV.
A-rand, FDR had the recovery going strong at the start of the depression. Republicans asked for spending cuts and that is what took us 10 years for us to come out.
I really wish Republicans would read history before making stupid comments.
Somehow the fears about the world economy will be Obama's fault. Even the Greek and Italian and Portugese debt concerns will somehow be his fault.
Somehow, even the Eurozone's decision to invest in the U.S. Dollar will be his fault...
Eventually we'll see that even natural disasters and Warren Buffett and Tax Cuts are his fault....
Hell, the toilet paper that tore while I wiped up this morning was probably his fault (or at least the EPA's)...
Yeah Ebeneezer, but you would all over it if Bush were still the man. By the way your personal hygiene habits, please keep to yourself. I don't really think your azz has anything to do with the stock market. I really didn't need that visual!!!
Don't take this the wrong way, and I'm sure you won't, but Obama needs to take ownership of all the debt, problems, job-killing regulations, etc. that HE's put in place in his administration. He's been blaming Bush for everything since he was elected. BamBam needs to grow up.
hatman
You are correct. Obama is in so far over his pay grade, blame is all he can do. Really sad, and to think people will vote for him again. That's just crazy. Come lefties at least give us someone else in 2012 and you may have a chance to retain the WH...
Yawn. Tired narrative, more of the GOP's "if you say it enough times, someone's going to believe it" propaganda machine.
Rorschach-558483----No, you guys said it was all Bush's fault. I think most of you still do.
Rand fan?
Sorry, but I can't take much of anything seriously when it comes from devotees of the Princess of Narcissism. All that I/me/mine stuff makes me wanna puke.
Hey Dano - I helped Bush get elected the first time. Don't tell me I'd blame it all on Bush.
it amuses me that everyday we are greeted by the alternating headlines of "Wall Street plummets" followed by "Wall Street Skyrocketed". Does anyone actually get concerned by these repetitive stories?
Who needs adventure parks! This roller-coaster will get the ol' adrenalin flowing. Hold on to your hats (and wallets).
LU: Perhaps will the Dow at 10,777.44 down more than 350 at about 9:55AM, perhaps below 10,000 is another scenario.
It's time for all white, liberal, commie pinkos all over the world to resign!!
This economy is like a marriage where one party has a lover and doesn't care about sex with their spouse. Corporate America wants more aliens in their companies. The companies don't care if the immigrants are legal or not. Corporate America is hiring illegal aliens through "labor contractors," which is another term for the Mexican Mob. If we added a million new jobs nine hundred thousand of them would be aliens. Companies are in love with aliens. Obama thinks that all these new Americans will help him win another term. Yes Obama has deported criminal aliens but he has invited everyone in the world to come here and work with his Amnasty.
Um, if they're illegal, they can't vote. Or pay taxes on their labor.
Yes, Obama has deported more aliens in his 3 years than Bush did in 8.
But as long as America won't pay more than $2 for a head of lettuce, you're going to have illegal immigrants.
Again we have Obama taking credit for something he had nothing to do with.....In fact Obama and his administration have been "obstructionists" when it comes to deporting illegals... Many illegals are going back home by turning themselves in to get the "Free ride" because there is no work here in the United States as my three neighbors have done..They'll be back in the Spring.. Like many rich elite Liberal Demoncrats the Mexicans summer in the States and winter in the South..Right now the need for Farm labor is very low, so why spend all that tax free money here in the States when they can spend it at home and get three times as much with the dollar than the peso..
Also the Border Patrol Officers have quietly ignored the Administrative obstructionists policy's and are sending back everyone they catch as well as trying to empty the California and Arizona and Texas Prison system of the Mexican crud they have housed..And many of the Inmates are complaining, they don't want to go home, cause they have it so good here....
And the National Guard has nothing to do with it either...They are not really active participants in the capture and return..Their basically "spotters" sitting on hills with Binoculars and testing other equipment from Defense Contractors....So sorry you fell for the Scam but Obama is not responsible for any of it...
A note to the Fed stop trying to save the world !!!! one thing and only one thing will change the economy
TIME!! So stop doing alot of nothing. you want people to start spending stop taxing and feeing the people to
death and give the people the money not the corporations!
Why do I get the feeling that it's gloom and doom misery for the next 13+ months?
The Fed projects 6 more years, not 13 months.
Huh? If only it could be that short. I bet you a cup o' coffee it'll be more like 5-10 years. This is a historical regression we're seeing and its going to take a looooooong time to get back to where we were. And I'm not so sure I want us to get back to where we were. I like mine with cream and sugar ;)
Matt and Slim,
I'm almost certain that The Beev was referring to the length of time that Obama will be in office. "Gloom and doom" will prevail while Obama is our "leader."
We will never be 'back where we were' because America will never have an industrial based economy again(the congressional military industry is monstrous in size but it only sustains the 'chosen districts')
The 400 families, corporate thugs and their repugnicrite minions will not allow job creation until they have acclimated the American working class to wages that will never sustain a family.
There is your 'family values' party.
If you watch shows like Nightly Business Report, experts come on and talk about "the coming correction" and seem to know it's going to happen. Who causes it to happen? The Brokerage houses stop buying and start to sell and then a few days later the small investors sell and lower the price for the rich to come in and purchase the stocks on the cheap. OF COURSE THEY'RE GOING TO USE THAT STOLEN MONEY TO CREATE JOBS, RIGHT? Sure. Yah, that's it. MAKE SURE ALL YOU BONE HEADS OUT THERE VOTE REPUBLICAN NEXT NOVEMBER, SO YOU'RE LAST FEW DOLLARS CAN BE PLACED IN THE RICH FOLKS SAVINGS ACCOUNT. I recommend, while you still have a few bucks left, that you buy a really good quality TENT over at WALMART. And a good sleeping bag. It gets cold sleeping under that pine tree in the Winter time.
Bob
I plan on voting Republican in 2012 gotta beat what we have now. Could it be the markets are tanking because no one has a clue what Obama is doing because he doesn't..I sold out back when the Dow went over 14K thanks to Mr. Bush. Maybe you should have done the same??
I did the same Dano - sold out when the Dow went over 14K - just hanging on and waiting it out now.
Thats exactly what Ive been doing lately. Make sure you not only have a tent and sleeping bag and everything else you need for a traveling man but a cart to pull it all with because you wont be able to afford gas for a car anyway. People who live out of their cars in these times are actually living in luxury. You wont be able to carry it all on your back. In these times its best to have a mobile home within your home. All of this would be a very good idea at this time in history.
Agree. It seems that everytime we have a 3 day "rally", the Fed comes out with another canned doom and gloom statement that sends the markets into freefall. It's truly amazing that Bernanke and his gang dangle the global economy like a puppet/marionette, making statements every few days that completely contradict the one they made just a few days before. This resulting whip-sawing of the markets is making everyone a lot poorer and the economists wonder why most folks are fed up with the stock markets. I heard some commentary on several satellite radio stations that these doom and gloom statements are part of the problem - it all becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts.
The market should have hit 7000 at it's lowest back two years ago. It is just readjusting to what it should have been. We have allowed the commodities to swing the market like a seesaw, letting the profiteers run away with loads of cash with such a nominal risk. It all needs more controls. Commodity players need to put up 50% margins on every trade and take possessions of trades physically and that would stabilize the markets considerably.
I just love it when the markets tank Oil goes down. I thought it was always supply and demand....HUMMMM..
And yet, gas prices continue to rise, i paid $4.01 a gallon to fill up this morning.
One of many "Murphy's Laws" reads: If you play with a thing long enough, you will break it.
Super!
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.
Thomas Jefferson.
Very true, Nikki. But when austerity measures are enforced, beware of those standing armies. Then again, if the banks fail, the troops might not get a paycheck either. Hmmmm.
The long term debt of Bank of America, Chase, and Wells Fargo got slammed by the ratings companies yesterday....yet not a WORD of it in the MSM. You would think that a story this huge would be all over the news. Nope....gotta keep people thinking about DWTS and American Fool....err....Idol.
Perhaps it has to do with the fact that they're Americans on Wall Street protesting and our government is still blacking it out in the media. Other countries know you idiot government officials. Also some one will porbably be suing Yahoo for censoring Americans trying to send emails about the occupywallst event as well. Yeah they got busted hands in the cookie jar. On top of that at first they lied about the whole ordeal.
Good luck Government good luck trying to hold us down! Crash and burn baby crash and burn!
I wish I could go. I should find someone who can go and sponsor them! Good Idea! There are plenty of unemployed people in NW Ohio. I could fill an Amtrak train a day headed to NY. All Aboard!
Good idea Crystal, I've been telling people all I can about it. All I can.. Power to the people. Land of the free baby, land of the free!
Huh? If only it could be that short. I bet you a cup o' coffee it'll be more like 5-10 years. This is a historical regression we're seeing and its going to take a looooooong time to get back to where we were. And I'm not so sure I want us to get back to where we were. I like mine with cream and sugar ;)
I feel sorry for all those people who invested in the Market based on the Media people and the Government people, and TV advertising and Internet Advertising telling them it was time to re-invest.....they just lost it all.......But then again, that is what you get for following or believing the Media.. you got what you deserved I have no sympathy for you what-so-ever..and I bet you vote Demoncrat too, because the Media told you too...Lol's
Joe Madden could not have said it better. Commodity trading swings the markets wildly and consumers take the hit for it every time while investors walk away with billions in profit and they never took possession of anything. Back when oil was trading at $147.00, we were told it was growth in China. It is now trading close to 50% of that and we are told the dollar is weak so we still have to pay $4.50 a gallon, nothing but pure BS.
The commodities market was never intended to be traded like it is today and the watch dog committees just sit back and do nothing which tells me they are in it as well. Traders are purchasing with not one intent to take possession. Microsoft, IBM BOA and the likes all trade in commodities on a daily basis. This is why governments fail and fall with revolutions in the street. People are not stupid (majority of them). Some day it is inevitable it will happen here since I see no reform in sight especially with this current administration.
BUY the dip! lol...just kidding
hmmm...must be a recovery,
Queue the violin, rearrange the chairs ...Somebody give Helicopter Bernanke a back slap and a martini. Party in the Hamptons this weekend. While we are at it tell Turbo Tax Geithner to jump back on the plane, head back to China, and beg and plea with them to keep mopping up our T-Bills. We promise we won't invade.
That's great news! Let the banksters eat cake for awhile and see how THEY like it. Oh and save the "the world will end" bull$hit, for a large number of people in this country, it already has, all Wall Street does is fix the game then rob the suckers that the lap dog media talks into investing their last dime for the mega-rich to steal.
Deflation...is that before or after 25 bucks for a loaf of bread 10 dollar a gallon gas , commodity spikes( ahhmm,,gold and silver) and price controls/ troops on the street? Because what we are having right now in real time is stagflation. Guess it is anyone's ballgame. The Elliot Wave/ Prichter is missing something here at the same time pointing at the problem.
I hope I am wrong but henry may be right. None of us really knows if we have already passed the point of no return.
Don, I don't think you are not wrong, we have passed that point. The debt cannot be paid back, it's exponential from the central bank's(Federal Reserve) practice of... 1. fractional reserve banking and 2. endless war and borrowing. The dollar is a complete ponzi and the market knows it. Hell, all central banks are a complete ponzi and it is a race to the bottom to see who can devalue their currency first. Europe as a whole just happens to be bearing it first since it does not have the liberty of a printing press and reserve status plus they are dealing with individual nations wanting or trying to buck the crappy Euro. China is not much better but in the long run they will have a consumer base to purchase their own crap. (after they dump our T-bills, and de-peg from the dollar)
Normalcy Bias can get you killed. Take care man.
Its not doom and gloom or conspiracy, it is just history and math.