E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSS
The median income fell last year, and the poverty rate rose to the highest level since 1993. Shaded areas represent recessions.
The number of Americans who have fallen into poverty rose to 15.1 percent in 2010, the highest level in nearly two decades, the Census Bureau said Tuesday in a report.
The report, which showed the poverty rate rose for a third straight year as the economy struggles with a stumbling recovery and persistent high joblessness, said the number of poor Americans in 2010 was the largest in the 52 years that it has been publishing poverty estimates, according to Reuters.
There were 46.2 million people in poverty in 2010, up from 43.6 million in 2009 ─ the fourth consecutive annual increase in the figure.
In a report that covers the first full calendar year after the end of the Great Recession, the bureau also said real median income dropped for the third year in a row.
Median household income in the United States in 2010 was $49,445, a 2.3 percent decline from the 2009 median, after adjusting for inflation.
The percentage of Americans without health insurance coverage was not statistically different from the previous year, the bureau said.
Among some of the other data from the report:
- Women working full time earned about 77 percent of what men earned, about the same ratio statistically as in 2009. But the number of men working full time dropped by 6.6 million while the number of women employed full time, with earnings, dropped by 2.8 million.
- The number of families in poverty has risen to 9.2 million in 2010 from 8.8 million in 2009. That boosted the family poverty rate to 11.7 percent from 11.1 percent.
- For children under 18, the poverty rate rose to 22.0 percent from 20.7 percent, while for ages 18 to 64 it increased to 13.7 percent from 12.9 percent.
The report comes as President Barack Obama has embarked on a campaign to boost U.S. jobs growth to shake the economy out of an unemployment rate that has stagnated at around 9 percent for months. On Monday he sent a $447 billion jobs creation bill to Congress, asking lawmakers to pass the bill as soon as possible.
Leave a Comment:
Change You Can Believe In!
The Bagger party of nothing vs. the leftist party of ignore the bill. BAGGERS are worthless as usual, as they point out the problems. Still looking for actual conservatives to help with the problem, as opposed to the anti-military, big government Baggers. Let me know when there is a Republican party I can vote for.
Derek...
How did the Tea Party movement cause this? Think about it! They had no control in 2010 which is what this census is from.
They caused it BY NOT WORKING. Still waiting for actually conservative Republicans to put the baggers back in the shed they came from.
the T-Party didn't cause this, the economy did. how will the T-Party plan of eleminating SS, medicare, medicade and repeeling Healthcare help????
James - I was just researching data from 2006 showing the top 10 cities with the highest poverty rates. 10 out of 10 voted Obama in 2008. Guess how those cities are doing today?
oh Yeah, once all those pesty little programs for Ma & Pa Kettle are gone billionaires like you will invest to give the rest of us the wonderfull new minimium wage careers we deserve
You can pretty much Tea Baggers will just claim the poor only want to be poor so in their eyes it's the poor's fault.
It's time for a new 'Hope and Change' in 2012.
It's 'entertaining' seeing the liberals find something (anything) to blame except Obama (almost 3 years) and the Democratic Congress that has been in control for the previous 4 years.
A 'sign of the times' is that FR used to have 85% of the comments posted by liberals, but that % is now down to about 60%. On Newsvine, which is not dominated by liberals, it's now about 80% anti-Obama.
For the corporations and the rich things have never been better. Disconnect? What disconnect?
Not much Change here. And you can say Yes. Yes I'm worse off.
Hope you can keep your change. I am sure someone will want to spread that around next.
Political-one
actually politically misinformed....the T-party, or those who are looking to do it old school Ronnie Regean way, want to "modify" SS,medicare, and medicade.... not "eliminate it. but then you and a bunch of others must not have been paying attention in class when they announced come 2017, SS will be bust, and so will the medic/ programs.
the problem exsists, people want to make it work, rather kick the can down the road, till there is nothing left for anyone. i have put into SS for 24 yrs... when i hit 65, i want to retire and have a little of that investment I (me) am actually entitled to...not some lazy dead beat. if you are afraid some lazy deadbeat isnt going to get their cut, well, then by all means, let the SOB run dry in 2017! personally, i would rather get nothing as well see the next drool who paid nothing, get nothing as well than share it. SS was created for those who put into it, not for those who havnt!
It took YEARS to get into this mess. How fast you REPUKES forget...
DEREK i give you alotta credit. Same opinion, different sides. The Baggers have put ideaology before COUNTRY, and thats treason in my mind.
Don't worry, the churches will take care of them......
What is important is that this data is for 2009, the first full year of the recession that exploded just before the 2008 election. Saying that Obama had a chance to fix 2009 stretches repub/tea bagger credibility past the breaking point.
1999 the China Free trade agreement is signed, but China doesn't have anything to trade, so we fix that by nation building. We send our factory's over there, and then ship our goods back to us. Result: China's economy goes up, ours tanks into the toilet. This is the real problem, and not one single politician is addressing it. Not one, but that is because they allowed it. There are many way's to describe this betrayal of our nation. You decide what it is.
it only took your boy,barry"the red" 3 yrs to turn a bad economy into a catastrophic economy.and lets not forget,which party told freddie mae and ferdie?mac to make loans to people who couldn't repay them?that's right barney[the purple dinosaur]franks and you dem-libs.
I hope all the poor do not count on charities to take care of them as President Obama is asking to reduce (for a second time) the amount one can wrtie off taxes for charity. And the food pantrys aren't doing any better.
Don't you just love it. Each side blaming the other. Liberals screaming at the right. Yet, no suggestions as to how to fit the actual problem.
Tariff all Chinese imports 10% will supply a federal revenue source of 50B per month. 600B per year. Increase job opportunities via making US manufacturing more competitive selling to our own market.
all without taxing the rich. a revenue source for universal healthcare. a revenue source for balancing the budget.
Reverse NAFTA, CAFTA and Free Trade.
I think it's more like catastrophic to better, then bad once the Teaparty got elected, then catastrophic again if Republicans stay in power.
WTF ever, Obama has killed so many skilled middle class jobs that make a difference from NASA to defunding R&D programs. Now his idea of recovery is to have everybody pick up a shovel at min wage......
what a loser....
It still amazes me that those who advocate, and legislate, so that absolutely nothing gets done will still stand in place and say, "He did it; I didn't do it!" I guess that no ethics people have an equal amount of remorse.
Such gall! Do you pathetic losers really think that the public doesn't recognize who is working harder to get nothing done than if they did little to get something done?
I think you need to research Social Security a little before you start telling us who it's for. SS was never designed to be a future retirement plan, that's what your company retirement is for (oh that's right, most companies don't have those anymore, they got in the way of CEO bonuses). The program was designed to fund CURRENT elderly people without retirement so they would live out their lives in dignity. I'm sure you're too young to have even heard stories about the "Poor Farms" of our past. Medicare was enacted to insure those on SS wouldn't have to choose between medicine and food (hence they kick in about the same time). I can see you're one of those who fear "socialism". OK, tell me something. Name one Federal, State, County or City government agency or program that isn't essentially socialist. That includes DOD, DOJ, CIA, FBI, Border Patrol, CDC...all of them. In fact, name one country with a government program that isn't essentially socialist!
T-Baggers don't have a problem with socialism, they have a problem with socialist programs they don't believe benefit them personally!
Michael Anderson - I am writing in your name on my next presidential ballot. You hit the nail right on the head. When will we learn to bring ourselves back, and for long-term viability, we need to become a nation of producers once again... Not a nation of idea producers, a nation that builds and manufactures things I can hold in my hand. Not a nation that spends money, a nation that generates money.
Doesn't seem that difficult to me...
My friends, you need to learn to see the silver lining in each cloud. While the poverty level rising generally means some discomfort for more Americans, we need to rejoice that we live in a nation where hunger is not a huge issue. Ever American, in some way or another is almost guaranteed a meal of some sort. You may have to eat Macaroni & Cheese instead of eating out a Sizzler's, but you are not going to see hunger in the same way other nations would.
The silver lining in this cloud? We can now focus on the important things. Seems like whenever any one or any nation is rolling in money, they start focusing on all sorts of crazy concepts. Save the whales, free Tibet, Let's make a law saying it's illegal to blow your nose in a restaurant (true law). Then we dedicate money and government resources to enforce those tidbit policies.
We've had a great rolling economy for a very long time. Despite short dips, such as in the 80s, nobody can deny that this nation is rich and plentiful and that we've all had our time in the clouds of prosperity. Now it is time for the adjustment.
We've had our period where we force teach children 'other things' than Math, History, and English. Nice time, perhaps it's time to scale back to the basics again. We've had our period were we make and enforce laws of private concern, such as whether or not we should allow our neighbor to spank their own children, or whether or not we should jail old ladies for watering their lawn past hours (another true story). Perhaps its time to cut back on laws and police that is nobodies business, let some of these non-violent 'criminals' out, and focus on things of greater importance. We have the largest prison population in the world, something like 25% of the entire world prison population. Maybe some of these laws are a little harsh?
So you won't be able to buy another Hummer3, or your boat, or Mobile Camper. So you may not be able to sell your home and get rich from overinflated prices. It's not as bad as you think.
That wife that left you because economic times are rough, you didn't need a wife that won't stand by you anyways. That Hummer3, maybe its time for automobile makers to bring back the Geo Metro. From the vehicles that have been coming out lately, I think that change may be already underway. You don't need to impress neighbors with big cars and boats and homes, try to learn within your means, rather than worry what your neighbor will think. Heck, he's going through the same economic issues right now.
I think this 'adjustment period' is exactly what this nation of Egos really needed. If things pan out, maybe we'll be able to make life simpler, happier, and more reasonable. Homes are becoming more affordable! People are beginning to appreciate having a job more! More people have time for their family!
Get rid of your material things, live in a smaller home, buy in a more rational manner, spend time with your family. Start shopping at the 2nd hand for your clothes (believe it or not, they have NEW clothes that the stores didn't sell). The 'happy days' are at an end, but you can still enjoy life!
Well, we know what the TEA/PUBLICANS intend to do, IF the poor, elderly, disabled, lower middle-class, UNEMPLOYED, stay home and don't vote November 6, 2012. They intend to CUT TAXES on the WEALTHIEST 2% ANOTHER TEN PERCENT, LOWER the CORPORATE TAX RATE AGAIN, so that, instead of getting hundreds of millions of dollars in refunds, it will be BILLIONS of dollars in REFUNDS, give MORE subsidies to OIL and COAL Companies to destroy the air quality of the United States and HEALTH of employees and customers. Maybe they will also give the AMERICAN CORPORATIONS ANOTHER TAX HOLIDAY, so that instead of creating jobs and reopening American plants or moderenizing them, they can INCREASE DIVIDENDS and most importantly of all, INCREASE the pay of CEO's and other HIGH RANKING officers, well at the same time firing low level employees and CONTINUE shipping jobs to India, China, Phillipines, Mexico, and so on and so on. Anywhere but the United States.
j70141 in Colorado- or not.
Chuck-2258469- because the liberals are doing so much better then the Right. What ever as a independent its sad to say both sides have no idea what to do yet the right is heading in the right direction.
What a stupid society we have! Blame Democrats blame Republicans blame Tea Party!
They love IT!
Corporate America = ModernDay Slavery
We are breaking the record of Billionaire and Millionaire Made while at the same time record highs of poverty!
It isn't freakin rocket science!
I don't know about your family but my rich family doesn't help me out in my times of need my poor family does. That is why they are Rich.
Vote for another Rich person to represent you!
Stupid is as Stupid does!
It must be that other poor guys fault I am poor! Or those people that can make it pay check to pay checks fault!
The Republican Agenda is coming to fruition.
The more people in poverty the more control the corporations have over their lives.
ROY WILSON-336103, post #1.8, Hey! Nice to see a familiar name. Can I just ask you where you get all these statitstics, like the ones you're quoting in your post? I know we had a conversation going on another Newsvine post involving statistical numbers but the conversation either got thwarted or I lost the page. Technological "technicality" confusion, I think. Example: I was just trying to reply to you the other day to say Go! ROY!!! Go! about again being taken down and collapsed on Newsvine because someone's comment on the top got collapsed and took everyone else down with it! What's up with that? I uncollapsed your comment, tried to reply and then something funky happened and I lost the whole page and couldn't get back to the spot. It's absolutely infuriating that my conversations with People are being halted in that way! I was glad to you see you speaking up about it and wanted to join with some support for you, but got shut down!
Anyway, glad I ran in to you here so I could tell you. So far, this Poverty info is very interesting, but I have to run out for a bit and come back to it late. As always, ROY~ ~ ~ "M"
That's right! Everyone fight over whose party is the bestest, all while they both rob the entire country blind. Give it a rest already. You have a Republlican base that just wants to see failure from the left, no matter the cost. Then you have the left that refuses to take any responsibilty for ANYTHING, going so far as to blame the WEATHER on Republicans, all while screaming about unfunded wars, not seeing the hypocrisy that the first stimulus and this next one will eclipse the spending of both wars over almost a decade. Stop with the partisan hack bulsh!t. You're not doing ANYONE any favors. Wake up. The Tea Party have failed. Obama has failed. The Democrats have failed. The Republicans had a chance to do something, but crumbled under the pressure from the Tea Party, and failed. That's the REAL world, and you being too busy blaming each other is letting them all get away with their failures.
PS - Stop collapsing posts you don't agree with. That's also getting old. I guess it's only Freedom of Speech as long as they think what you do?
"A 'sign of the times' is that FR used to have 85% of the comments posted by liberals, but that % is now down to about 60%. On Newsvine, which is not dominated by liberals, it's now about 80% anti-Obama."
The left gets tired of conversations with entrenched ignorance, individuals who display NO grasp of historical perspective, no knowledge of economics, and usually are just mouthing the latest warped lies ("talking points") they've heard on their puppet master's (the rich guys picking their pockets and playing them for fools) propaganda machines that they listen to like mindless rats, completely isolated from anything remotely resembling the truth, simply because it affirms their hate.....lol.
We can only stand just so much "stupid."
So your OPINION is that anything a Republican says is stupid, so by your fail logic, it's okay to collapsetheir posts, because they shouldn't be allowed to state their OPINION?
Welcome to the land of the liberal mindset, where Speech is free.....as long as you tell them what they want to hear.
I can't believe you people are so arrogant as to close this discussion thread just because you don't like it. The abuse button isn't a 'disagree' button people, and abusing it is just going to change the reporting policies and might even get it taken away from you (they record the ones who report).
"The Republicans had a chance to do something, but crumbled under the pressure from the Tea Party, and failed. That's the REAL world, and you being too busy blaming each other is letting them all get away with their failures."
Gharms,
Republicans have never - and will neve - do ANYTHING for the people of this country. They're the
"rich people's/corporate capitlists/management" party, who only are blessed with a whole lot of misguided middle-class bigots swelling their voting ranks since the Civil Rights Legislation in the '60's - without which they could NOT win elections.
And TODAY'S Republican Party isn't even pretending to be something they aren't...they're acting like the well-funded, criminal mob they've ALWAYS been.
Yes, just get American workers to accept $2 a day for their work and whalaa....you have manufacturing in the USA.
That is, unless you can manufacture something that no one else in the world can for less cost.
Thanks for proving my point Elle. You're too busy blaming everyone but your own party to see your own party is raping you from behind. Grats on being another partisan sheep.
"Well funded, criminal mob"
You men like Obama needing $1 billion to get re-elected? Careful, you stepped in a heap of hypocrisy. I don't want it all over the carpet.
"What sickens me about left-wing people, especially the intellectuals, is their utter ignorance of the way things actually happen." George Orwell
Clearly proven here.
Jeez Ellie, sounds like what you don't like or understand should be against the law and the person voicing their opinion should be executed. Git a grip.
wize, pretending he's conservative, ROFL!
Post Number 1: Why was this " collapsed?" Pelosi Rang Up 5 T Comment collapsed by the community
Change You Can Believe In!
#1 - Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:26 AM EDT
Oba-mao-a-lini and the dem o propaganda liars love it.....15%....... GREAT WORK FOLKS!
If we keep up the good work we can have it at 20% by 2012 and if the losers that we have stole tax money to pay off kick backs to buy their votes out number intelligent tax payers in 2012 then we will have our super majority with 35% of govt dole losers plus the the other liberal idiots by 2016 and easily win 2016. And then it will really get good because the country will go bankrupt and we will be able to start over as a socialist/ communist country and start our global govt.
....a new world currency with soros as the world fed president.
This is exactly what oba-mao-a-lini wants....
3 years into this disaster of a Presidency the loonie left is still blaming Republicans?
Your dimwit is in charge. Your dimwits had 4 years of controlling both houses of Congress.
Clearly the party with the corporate love is the Democrat party, as their coffers are filled by Wall St, banking, Health Insurance and Drug company money.
The real fools are those still supporting these cons.
The real FOOLS are the people pretending to be conservative, and acting the same way.
Sorry, was it a BAGHEAD who was supposed to provide an answer? With their big government, do nothing at all approach? I would LOVE an actual conservative to be running for President wearing the name of a Republican. But I don't see one. I see CRYBABIES who pretent to hate the left while acting worse.
Derek,
You're right. I'm not a conservative, or a liberal. I'm an Independent that happens to be fed up with the establishment and all it's BS.
But, to blame the Tea Party for the increase in the poverty rate? you may as well try and convince me that the earth is flat. The comments are that moronic.
It IS like I said before "Popularity Contest", and Newsvine is no longer "Get Smarter Here". (the same thing people said before, "He looks and sounds like a President" (majority of comments on Newsvine at the time, that I copied and pasted to notepad and saved on my computer (including screen names)) a total disregard of what was a verbal contract during the Presidential Debates; as Popularity versus Substance (Facts).
Newsvine has turned into a personal "Blog" to post non factual emotive posts, and not what it was before a "Forum" to discuss Facts and Solutions. (I copy and paste Newsvine Posts to notepad and then save them to my computer, and can see the trend.).
You can see this based on the numbers of Votes for "Popular" knee jerk non factual emotive opinions.
Anyway contrary to "popular" belief, the Scrotums (Tea Baggers, Tea Party) have little or no effect. As Freshmen Congressmen (and women) they do NOT get influential Committees that are/have been long held by the other Congressional Representatives that have been there (D.C., Dysfunctional Congress) the longest.
Most also believe that there is a real difference between Demoncraps, Repugnants, In Depends (Adult Diapers), Scrotums (Tea Party), and do not realise that they ALL are scrambling around being bought off by whoever (not the US Citizens) can afford their price tags.
The Price Tag Of Politics
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6228712n&tag=related;photovideo
I have stated my "unpopular" posts (based on votes) that state researched Facts, the stated Problem, and Researched Solutions.
Example: 1. Problem many US Citizens believe that their "Popular" Vote determines the President and Vice President of the US.
2. These US Citizens do not realize the existence of the Electoral College, that was established by the Founding Fathers, "The average citizen is too ignorant to determine the Highest Offices of the Land, President and Vice President".
3. The Electoral College purpose has been defeated thru Gerrymandering, and proven that their Votes can be bought example: President Bush's second term, President Obama.
4. The Solution: Elimination of the Electoral College as occupied by the "Elite" of the Electoral College., the Reform being that OUR Congressional Representatives being selected at Random just like Jury Duty (this stops the multi hundred million USD Political Campaigns as funded by Special Interest Groups, Lobbyists that routinely buy our current Representatives, as 15 minutes with them to get Unlimited Corporate Campaign Contributions or 2 hours with you to get a few thousand USDs.).
As a commentary on Society that has become twitter oriented, with complaints that posts are too long. The detailed facts, examples, explanations, motives, etc. are never One Liner Twits.
Just after Candidate Obama became the US President I sent him and US Congress Letters as a list of Solutions. I started to post the Researched list of 10 Basic Solutions here on Newsvine, and left off the other Solutions. In most cases these Newsvine Posts were deleted, with my comment being F**K YOU (my emotive opinion based on your actions), for F**king yourselves and not wanting to hear the Researched Solutions from my 1990s Research Paper to US Government (Updated 1993, 2009, 2011 (ongoing)); knowing what was coming, based on my Research I prepared for the then future now current events and future events.
wize, I doubt you are as independent as you make yourself out to be. REAL conservatives want nothing to do with the hate-faced BAGGERS who want to send the economy into the toilet just to be elected. Big government that does what they want is what a BAGGER is all about. And they pretend to hate the left, just like Ghadaffi pretended to work with the USA. Ghadaffi has one thing in common with Baggers, he wanted to KILL AMERICANS.
Poor Ronald Reagan, rolling in the grave at the use of his name by Bagheads. I miss him.
Derek
You seem to be well versed in "hate".
So just to make sure I got it all right, this whole economic catastrophe blame is given to the four groups: Republicans, Democrats, Tea Party, and Corporations. I think I saw illegal immigrants in another post on this same forum, but we'll stick to this thread.
Let me interject with someone different here: Banking institutions.
Social Security was implemented to give those with no savings or retirement an alternative to suicide. Shortly after, 401k and IRAs gained notoriety and picked up steam. Companies everywhere were offering 401k retirement plans.
I used to work for a food's distributor. They banked with Chase. I hate Chase and banked with a local institution. Once my 401k built up a bit, I could go to my bank and borrow against that 401k if I wanted. I could use it as leverage without transferring those funds to my bank. In the meantime, Chase is holding, and gambling, all the 401k plans for that company. Chase is also lending against it. Effectively, 3 different entities could borrow money against the same 401k account (me, Chase loans, and my company) while Chase was making so-called safe investments with that money themselves. That makes a 401k account with 120k worth of funding now worth around 480k total, with only 120k to back it up.
The feds started a mass exodus of banking regulations in the 80's, and that didn't stop until those banks finally choked themselves to death a few years ago, causing our economy to spiral to the ground. The more the industry was deregulated, the more they were able to gamble their money and everyone else's. It got to the point that they bet on derivatives (gambling on things they did not own and using money that didn't exist). Derivatives allowed Chase bank to bet on a group of loans BoA held, and insure that bet through Fannie Mae to cover their asses. There's a problem with this theory - if those loans go bad, BoA calls to collect the insurance they had against those loans, and Chase does as well. That was the absolute dumbest thing in the history of mankind, but the banks didn't care as long as they were covered for the moment. Thus the mass screwing we all took.
It's the banking industry. Who holds all the money in the country, anyway? I'd love to blame Exxon, but that corporations doesn't even hold 1% of the total funds that the major banks did when they failed and screamed bailout.
RebelYell173
hmmm...under this years to get us bit still are you? it might have taken years to get us into this mess, but it shouldnt take years to see a sign of recovery. thus far there has been none, zero, zilch, notta, and any other term/name you want to put on "no sign of recovery" at all. You also must either have selctive hearing, or be deaf. 4 times now since Nobama the Clown has been elected,(not counting his run to be a president), he has made the statement "now its time to tackle the most important job of all, jobs and the economy" speech. he did after Osama binLaden was killed by SEALS, he made it after his failure of HCR was passed, he made it after he took over 500 people on a tour of the UK with him on our dime, and he made it right when he was officially announced as a president to the US. yet for 2.8 yrs he has done nothing... this so called "jobs bill", is just a repeat of the first patch he blew billions of stimulous $ on, nothing more. All going to the unions, and majoe coporations, nothing for small private buisness.... nothing! those small buisnesses, are the backbome of the US, without them we are jobless.... oh look...we are jobless, and have been since the Clown took office.
because he doesnt feel the groove anymore, people are getting a little more than miffed. he calls on his little crowd of followers with this comment... "if you love me you will support me on this"... how pathetic, degradeing, self imposing, and pig headed can one be?
i like many other Americans who by the grace of god DO have a job, do not love him. a majority of us do not support him. because "big union" and the drools who feel they are entitled to more than their fair share do, does not mean everyone does who is in a union either. i am almost in a union now, 2 weeks, 2 days to go. i can care less if i was in a union shop or not. i go where i can have job security, and there isnt any there, or anywhere with this pos clown who thinks he can smooth everything over with all talk, no action.
The greed of the Teapublicans at work.
How is that John? Please enlighten this blog with your insight! :)
Sure James, can you say NO to everything, Can you say NO to getting rid of loopholes for a privileged few, can you say NO to raising the debt limit, can you say NO to taxing hedge fund managers at a reasonable rate, can you say NO to 10 dollars in spending cuts for every one dollar in revenue.
Have to get back to work now so you will have plenty of time to twist the truth and make up bull@!$%#, because that's what the right does their new favorite pastime is lying to the people and unfortunately the gullible people trust their words like they were gospel.
Same question should have been asked on that person who you voted you agree with above but didn't. I don't think John owes you anything.
John and Jeff.....
John obviously doesn't understand that the Tea Party movement had no one in an elected position durring this census. So for him to cry about the Tea Party movement is a waste of breath.
Jeff... You are right! John doesn't owe me or anyone anything. But I believe he can't give us any insight on why he blames a group of people who had nothing to do with this census.
John, dont lie. Watching t.v. in your parents basement is NOT considered a job!!
of course he cant. one there is no way to blame an entity who had no control over anything in the past 3 yrs, because the movement didnt exsist in any type of control until this year. thus congress makes the bills, the democrat controlled senate passes them, unless the president veto's. Then looking at the previous 2 yrs when the dems DID have total control, what got passed? well a failed Nobama the Clown care, and even then he had to bribe, and exsempt to get just enough votes for it to pass. (dem supporters as well as Nobamanationites forget this), yet nothing else was even brought to the table. no budget, no tax other than a favored tax incentives for the same people Nobama the Clown was crying about NOT paying taxes on, like GE who got the incentives and then some, lol.
So looking at it, no, he has nothing to make so much as a case to back up his stament, and is openly showing us all, just how brainwashed his party of .... nuts, has made him. personally i call it "crazy parrot talk", just repeating the same old nonsense over and over... no real input, other than "Bush did it, why cant Nobama?"
Megalodon... by the way, like the name... umm, the dems never had controll (if you are inferring a super majority) and why no one takes to task why the fillibuster rate was the highest ever from the repubs astounds me. When you fillibuster all the time, so that nothing can get passed, that is obstruction. And also, no one takes to task the comment of McConnel in association with our economic crisis. Just pointing fingers back and forth. Fact, it took a long time to get to this point, and YES Bush had a lot to do with it. Fact, it cannot be reversed in 2-4 years with a non cooperative government and the momentum of the freefalling economy.
So to pin the problem solely on the POTUS is f'ing stupid and ignorant (not you Megalodon, i'm being general here), neither branches work in a vacuum... though the NEW conservatives seems to be doing that. A testament to that notion is they 'i got 98% of what I wanted'. And if that is the case, and things are getting any better, 98% of the blame should be places on those who WON there argument (supposedly).
to be clear... "and things AREN'T getting any better"...
T party wasn't even around then. Check your facts.
What a stupid society we have! Blame Democrats blame Republicans blame Tea Party!
They love IT!
Corporate America = ModernDay Slavery
We are breaking the record of Billionaire and Millionaire Made while at the same time record highs of poverty!
It isn't freakin rocket science!
I don't know about your family but my rich family doesn't help me out in my times of need my poor family does. That is why they are Rich.
Vote for another Rich person to represent you!
Stupid is as Stupid does!
It must be that other poor guys fault I am poor! Or those people that can make it pay check to pay checks fault!
kingofkings,
I completely agree that pinning the blame solely on the POTUS is stupid - just as pinning it solely on the Republicans, Tea Party, or Democrats in general is stupid. People sometimes act like we live in a dictatorship and one person or party gets to do everything they want to do.
I do blame Bush for a lot of our current issues, but I also blame both parties in general since for at least the last 3 decades, the word "compromise" has meant that both sides get to spend whatever they want without paying for it. We had a brief period of sanity in the 90's when we had both a fiscally conservative congress and president - but even then, they passed a number of bills that helped lead us to where we are today (NAFTA, removing financial regs, the push for home ownership, etc.).
I do think things are slowly getting better - just not as fast as any of us would like...and there is a definite chance we could slide back into a real recession again. (I hope not, but the possibility is there)
The Tea Party didn't do this too us, they are just the ones frantically grasping for the steering wheel and yanking as hard as they can... in the wrong direction.
I guess you just can't make a living from welfare anymore... Why don't we just pass a law setting a minimum level of government support for people not working. It might be cheaper than all the stimulus spent and proposed...
MDB,
There are greedy rich people that won't help others, and there are greedy poor that won't help others. There are also rich and poor people that do help others. Making it about wealth level is just destructive class warfare.
By the way, as to the rich helping others, do some research on people like Carnegie, Buffet and Gates.
The poverty rate and the number of those in poverty has been climbing more or less for the past 12 years with a brief and small dip from 2005 to 2007. To cast blame at the feet of a single party is intellectually dishonest. Both parties have held majorities in congress and both parties have had a president in office when the rate was rising.
My friends, you need to learn to see the silver lining in each cloud. While the poverty level rising generally means some discomfort for more Americans, we need to rejoice that we live in a nation where hunger is not a huge issue. Ever American, in some way or another is almost guaranteed a meal of some sort. You may have to eat Macaroni & Cheese instead of eating out at Sizzler's, but you are not going to see hunger in the same way other nations would.
The silver lining in this cloud? We can now focus on the important things. Seems like whenever any one or any nation is rolling in money, they start focusing on all sorts of crazy concepts. Save the whales, Free Tibet, Let's make a law saying it's illegal to blow your nose in a restaurant (true law). Then we dedicate money and government resources to enforce those tidbit policies.
We've had a great rolling economy for a very long time. Despite short dips, such as in the 80s, nobody can deny that this nation is rich and plentiful and that we've all had our time in the clouds of prosperity. Now it is time for the adjustment.
We've had our period where we force teach children 'other things' than Math, History, and English. Nice time, perhaps it's time to scale back to the basics again. We've had our period were we make and enforce laws of private concern, such as whether or not we should allow our neighbor to spank their own children, or whether or not we should jail old ladies for watering their lawn past hours (another true story). Perhaps its time to cut back on laws and even our police force and mind our own business, let some of these non-violent 'criminals' out, and focus on things of greater importance. We have the largest prison population in the world, something like 25% of the entire world prison population. Maybe some of these laws are a little harsh?
So you won't be able to buy another Hummer3, or your Boat, or Mobile Camper. So you may not be able to sell your home and get rich from overinflated prices. It's not as bad as you think.
That wife that left you because economic times are rough, you didn't need a wife that won't stand by you anyways. That Hummer3, maybe its time for automobile makers to bring back the Geo Metro. From the vehicles that have been coming out lately, I think that change may be already underway. You don't need to impress neighbors with big cars and boats and homes, try to learn to live within your means, rather than worry what your neighbor will think. Heck, he's going through the same economic issues right now too.
I think this 'adjustment period' is exactly what this nation of Egos really needs. If things pan out, maybe we'll be able to make life simpler, happier, and more reasonable. Homes are becoming more affordable! People are beginning to appreciate having a job more! More people have time for their family!
Get rid of your material things, live in a smaller home, buy in a more rational manner, spend time with your family. Start shopping at the 2nd hand for your clothes (believe it or not, they have NEW clothes which the main stores didn't sell and then donated). The 'happy days' are at an end, but you can still enjoy life!
Change is on you, whether you like it or not. Better put on your seatbelt, the ride might be rough.
Take 12 million illegal immigrants out of the statistics and it changes the % in poverty SIGNIFICANTLY!!! as in IF THEY WERE NOT IN THE US THEY WOULD NOT BE COUNTED AS IN POVERTY!!!.
Liberals / Democrats listen up.... want to reduce poverty in the US they help us enforce our immigration laws and deport those that are not legally here.
Its also worth noting that as more money then ever is dumped, flushed, wasted on the war on poverty the % keeps increasing. Could it be that the more you steal from those that work and produce jobs in this country, the less they create jobs and employ others?
Ya... lets spend billions more.... bleed the rich dry and redistribute more wealth... that will help (not)
j,
I appreciate the few positive comments I can see here. Most people are so bitter and jaded they can't see a silver lining to anything. Of course, happy stories don't draw eyeballs the same way depressing stories do. Unless it is a kitty that dialed 911. I agree with much of what you wrote but I must disagree strongly on a single point. Never EVER bring back the Geo Metro. Thank you :)
HEY!
Hey.
I had a Geo Metro. I'm 6'4". It was uncomfortable to drive, but it ran like a champ.
Mr. Obama better revisit "His Grand Jobs Plan" and include more $$$ into the Food Stamp Program to cover those who just went into Poverty.
Guess he covered the Unemployment Benefits extension (AGAIN)......Mrs. Pelosi says this will "stimulate" job growth.
Just great.....more folks on food stamps while getting more unemployment benefits. Next will be a New Chevy Volt for everyone.
I am waiting to hear that once the baby boomers retire all these jobs will be opening up!
Honestly I am surprised we haven't heard that line of BS YET!
Vote for your neighbor!
Rodney, redistribution of wealth is part of living in a society. If you think things like roads and police are anything but wealth redistribution, you are mistaken. I'd rather help the people in Texas who's homes have burned down than leave them to figure it out on their own. In return, I hope that I will get some help if my home is destroyed. If you object to welfare, talk to some people on it or on unemployment insurance. Most fell on hard times. If you support them now, they will support you if you ever fall on hard times. Yes, there will always be people who game the system, it is human nature. I would argue that many businesses striving to pay zero tax when they are insanely profitable is an example of gaming the system. The best you can do is catch people who game the system and stop them from doing so.
Gharms,
I am the same height. Perhaps I shouldn't have gotten mine from an owner who didn't care for it. It ran like a rider mower for me and lasted about 6 months!
The "poor" or those in poverty, include anyone making less than $22k per year.
For those supporting the party that wants to eliminate minimum wage, what type of jobs do you think will be created if you do that? Do you honestly think a job paying $0.10 per hour will help anyone? If anything, that will put MORE people into the poverty category.
If you want to reduce poverty, we need jobs that pay more than $22k. If you want to increase poverty, and turn us into a 3rd world country, remove the minimum wage law.
"Change we can believe in".
It's time for a new 'Hope and Change' in 2012.
It's 'entertaining' seeing the liberals find something (anything) to blame except Obama (almost 3 years) and the Democratic Congress that has been in control for the previous 4 years.
A 'sign of the times' is that FR used to have 85% of the comments posted by liberals, but that % is now down to about 60%. On Newsvine, which is not dominated by liberals, it's now about 80% anti-Obama.
Newly Independent.....you do realize that a good deal of economists say that repealing minimum wage would actually RAISE wages? Now, I'll be completey truthful, I have no idea how that would work, but there are people far smarter then I am in these matters that think it's actually keeping wages down.
The 80 year Democrat experiment of redistribution of wealth has finally officially failed.
Perhaps you can't see it yet.
Just take a look at Europe.
That is where we are headed if we continue with business as usual in Washington.
Europe has high taxes on people and businesses, especially anyone with wealth.
Sound like a Democrat idea? It is.
They have endless regulations.
Sound like a Democrat idea? It is.
They have massive handouts/entitlements.
Sound like a Democrat idea? It is.
They have Gov't run healthcare.
Sound like a Democrat idea? It is.
So what have all those Democrat ideas done to Europe?
Europe is on the brink of collapse. The strongest European economy, Germany, has zero percent growth. Many of the other nations have debts that would exceed income to pay back. Yes, their Gov'ts spent so much money that there isn't enough money to pay the debts.
And the poverty rate is no lower despite the majority of Gov't spending being used expressly on that problem.
The Gov't just keeps handing out fish instead of teaching people to be responsible for catching their own fish.
Until that changes, our country will continue in it's decline.
The TEA Party began as a response to overspending by Bush, not as a response to Obama. Obama won the election and decided to double down on the Bush deficits, and then double down again. We have failure, but it isn't the TEA Party that caused it. You on the left want to blame Bush. You're wrong, but fine, go ahead. And on the right too many of us blame Obama, and we are wrong too. The problem, and why the TEA Party is so right (though many in the party are inconsistent on this) is that we Americans have for many decades wanted lots and lots of free stuff from the government. We got it. and now we are paying a price.
So blame Bush if it makes you feel better. Or blame Obama. Or blame whoever. But the laws of economics really don't care about your petty effort to shift blame from yourself. And because those laws are so indifferent to party, to color, to race, to education, to really anything other than what you produce, you will continue to suffer from your own choices until you choose differently.
For my part there is no democrat running that makes any sense. Every republican running is easily better than Obama. And yet this is not enough. If we don't redirect our national trajectory there is no where to go but down. I will vote for the candidate that couples the two concepts of a strong foreign policy with a pro-growth economic agenda, all in the context of the constitution. This equation leaves Obama out regardless of any other candidate running.
What is poverty today? A big screen tv......a cell phones for Mom and Kids........no responsibility because the government provides. I see the poverty in the working poor at the grocery store without the benefit of food stamps or an access card everyday. If you want to see poverty in its true form go to Mexico or Africa.
Pragmatic...
Ok, I will compromise with you.... I will support some of your wealth redistribution for all these wonderful, needy folks who through no fault of their own have fallen on hard times... IF...
1. Manditory drug testing for those collecting public assistance of any kind. I have a right to not have MY tax money used for buying drugs.
2. Deport illegals... I have a right to not pay public assistance for those who should not even be in this country.
What say you? want to make the case that we shouldn't drug test those on the public dole, but MUST drug test commercial truck drivers, cops, doctors, etc...
Don't forget: If you want the Federal Gov't to obey the Constitution and live within it's means - YOU ARE A TERRORIST!
You don't eliminate poverty by giving away money. You eliminate poverty providing opportunity and motivating people to aspire to do great things.
I marvel at many people who emigrate to this country legally. They don't come here looking for a job. They come here looking for an opportunity! No jobs? No problem. They create a job. Thousands of Vietnamese people seemed to have come here to open nail salons. They work their tails off and make a go of it. Seems that where I live many of the Subway restaurants are minority/immigrant owned. Again, they are grateful to be in a country where they can do what they couldn't do in their home country. So many immigrants who come here seem to grasp what many Americans do not. A job does not HAVE to be something you go and apply for, then sit and wait while the monthly checks come in. There are literally thousands of ways to earn a living outside of having a traditional "job". This is the land of opportunity, and there is still lots of opportunity out there to find needs and meet them in the marketplace.
You want to create jobs? Make it 100 times easier to start a small business. Provide incentives for people to create their own jobs. Get rid of paperwork, regulations, etc. Get rid of excess fees! (there is a tax in New York if you buy a bagel and the shop cuts it! C'mon!)
Here's the part of my response you'll like:
I am one liberal that DOES think that Obama's policies are partially at fault.
Here's the part you won't like:
The problem with Obama is that he's essentially become a republican. Look at the debt deal he agreed to: spending cuts all over the place, including cuts to badly needed social programs that benefit the poor. He didn't lift a finger to get us out of Afghanistan (which would save trillions of dollars), he didn't lift a finger to raise taxes on billionaires. He hasn't lifted a finger to enact badly needed protectionist policies that would bring jobs back to America. In short, he's made the problem worse by acting like a republican.
That being the case, it would be a terrible mistake to elect the republican nominee, which we can be sure will be someone even farther to the right than Obama.
This really isn't complicated. Virtually EVERYTHING the republicans support would benefit the rich at the expense of the poor. You won't make the problem of poverty any better by electing a republican.
I don't know what's more pathetic: a libtard like John trolling with "Teapublican" comment or the fact that 34 fellow idiots voted that post up.
Gharms, the idea centers on a fairly simple idea, though hard to explain. Each of us has an advantage we can exploit. For some it's a competitive advantage, for others it's an absolute advantage. the minimum wage keeps many people from working who would otherwise be more appropriate for those jobs, and so people with greater skill end up doing lesser work (whether in terms of pay or value produced or ???). We all become less wealthy as a result. Our economy becomes less dynamic too. The results?
We end up with fewer people working, fewer people therefore pulling the wagon, and that fact means that fewer people are earning what they otherwise would.
Gharms - There are also economists who said extending the Bush tax cuts would create jobs. Just because some say something, does not mean it will work.
Instead, lets take Texas as an example. Texas has experienced a large spike in minimum wage jobs. Companies were willing to hire at the bare minimum that they are required to pay people. So, given that precedent, what is the reason to assume that any other company would act any different.
Now, if your argument is that CEO and upper management wages will increase with the removal of the minimum wage... then I would agree with you. However, the CEOs and upper management are not classified as poverty, so increasing their wages will not really help the situation.
Remember the number one rule of business: Make the most money for the absolute least amount of cost.
CORRUPTION PEOPLE that is why our wages are going down. Yes i believe in capitalism but it doesn't work with greed involved. Yes i believe in helping those that can not help themselves but that doesn't work with deception and fraud! What ever happened to people being honest?
Hey Junicon,
Which "program" do you think helps poor people escape their condition more...a governmental handout, or a job?
I think the answer is obvious and I would suspect you would agree. This president made the claim that if we only would support his stimulus plan that the recession would be held in check and unemployment would top out no higher than 8%. This president got what he wanted (you did too) and yet none of the benefits promised have happened. You cannot blame this on the president acting like a republican when not one republican supported his stimulus plan.
Republicans, though they are not good at messaging their concept, favor pro-growth, but NOT government growth. We want the private sector to operate without so much governmental meddling and interference. We understand that more people on the dole adds exactly nothing to our national wealth, and in a real sense doesn't add to the individual wealth of those on the dole. We think that larger government axiomatically means you are smaller. Sadly, none of Mr. Obama's policies, and I am being very deliberate when I write "none", are pro-growth. They are pro-government.
Rich - One problem with that assumption.
That is based on the assumption that there are higher skilled jobs available for those with "greater skill"... and that the only reason those with "greater skill" are not taking the higher jobs is because they are currently working at a minimum wage job.
The reality is that those with "greater skill" are working minimum wage jobs because there are no jobs available for their skill set. Putting more people into the minimum wage category, with less pay, will not create higher skilled jobs, it will merely increase competition for those pennies.
Removing minimum wage laws does nothing to create "higher skilled" jobs. It simply reduces what those at the bottom already get paid.
Hi Newly-Independent,
All things equal tax cuts will spur job creation. The only way this can't be true is if you believe, and you might believe this, that the government is better at investing your money than you are.
And to your reply above, you are wrong. It is not based on some idea that higher skilled jobs are available. It is based on the idea that anytime you have higher skilled workers performing lower level work you are operating inefficiently. It's economically true in all cases that greater efficiency will result in greater economic growth. Those high skilled jobs you imagine must exist PRIOR to this will become available later.
I don't know what you do for a living but imagine if you did something below your ability and displaced a worker below you capable of doing that work. Think through the economic consequences.
Interesting to see the huge spike in poverty over the two terms of the Bush administration.
When we weren't in a recession.
first you must educate people to be able to do a job worth more than 22,000 a year. Lets stop giving benefits to people who drop out of school for one thing. the idiot jobs went to china.
Hey RealAmericansFirst,
What passed in the mid-90s and put a limit on how many years one could be on welfare....oh yes, it was welfare reform. So the government, never one to let a good story go to waste, wanted us all to know that we made the wrong choice, that we should've continued with welfare as it had always been. But what isn't shown is this...and please follow me on this.
The poverty rate isn't some abstract number at which one is poor below it, not poor above it. It is a number which fluctuates relative to other factors, like median income levels, the rate of inflation, and so on. What that graph shows is that, yes, the numbers went up. But what it does nothing about is explaining why. Many on welfare who had exceeded their lifetime limit were removed from the roles and as a result became impoverished. But it also implies that wages for working Americans went up during the decade.
Rich -
All things are not equal and this is not true. The assumption requires one to believe that the investment in taxes can be redirected towards payroll... and this payroll will result in higher profits of the company. The theory is that there is a set revenue per employee, and any new employees will contribute the same amount to revenue. Again, all things are not equal. The law of diminishing returns must come into play... meaning there is a point where more employees result in less revenue for the company. Eventually, you get to a point where a new employee results in zero profits, and thus represents an additional cost. So tax cuts are not always redirected into payroll, due to diminishing returns, and thus it is a fallacy to assume all tax cuts spur job creation.
As for your minimum wage idea, I get it. It is the theory that everyone has a value associated with their skill level (Bob is worth $1 per hour, Bill is worth $10 per hour, Steve is worth $100 per hour). And you believe that we, as a society, will be more efficient when everyone is working at their predetermined value. (If Bill is working Bob's job, there is an inefficiency because Bob does not have a job and there is an empty position for Bill). Again, this theory is based on everything being equal.
In reality, there are additional factors that must come into play. There is a cost-of-living threshold that must be met. This threshold places a minimum required pay level to obtain necessities for living. Living below this threshold places additional costs on the economy, included a reduction in consumer spending, healthcare costs, etc. A reduction in consumer spending reduces economic demand, affecting the profits of companies. These companies must then cut costs (including wages) to balance the lost revenue.
In addition, your theory ignores technological advancements. As technology improves, less people are required for the same job. (Bill's job was replaced with a new software upgrade that performs his job for him, thus he is now fighting for work with Bob and Steve). Again, all things are not equal, and our dynamic environment includes various factors that affect job growth.
On paper, in a fixed environment, with no minimum cost-of-living threshold, your theory is true. But we do not live in a this type of world.
Derek, you are correct.
The Republican/Tea Party members will blame the growing number of Americans that are falling into poverty - for their desperate and dismal economic situations.
The GOP will crow that it is the fault of the middle class and the poor - that they have now fallen below the poverty line.
American citizens are falling below the poverty line becuase of bad and unfair economic policies.
In spite of these dismal statistics, the Right Wing will continue to hysterically scream that the U.S. needs to make further spending cuts in entitlements and in employment training programs. In a twisted manner, they will somehow link further spending cuts as the solution to lifting our American citizens.
At the next Republican debate, I hope that the TV moderator puts these dismal statics to the GOP candidates - and that the moderator will ask each candidate how he/she would decrease the U.S. poverty figures.
In response to the question, I am sure each candidate will look stunned.
The Republican candidates will dance around the question of how to decrease poverty in America - better than Fred Astaire danced in his Academy-award winning movies.
Hi Newly-Independent,
Sorry my friend, but none of what you say is true. It doesn't rest on any of your claims. It's much simpler. Can you allocate your money more wisely, or more efficiently, than the government? If you can't, and I suspect you can't, then you are right to give yourself and all you make to the government and let the state dictate to you how you will live your life. Where you will work. How much you will make.
I don't agree at all with what you think or write. I think the vast majority of people invest or spend their money better than the government would for them, and this fact, if I am right, means the government is less efficient. Sorry, but inefficiency means, in all cases, that less will be produced, or less wealth created. In no case is being more inefficient going to cause a better outcome. Where in the world does this kind of thinking come from?
Kingofkings
Your facts are just a little well for lack of a better term misguided. Yes Bush did have a little to do with how we got here, two unfunded wars did cost some cash and Medicare part D should have been funded through cuts else where. Beyond that you take a wrong turn. The economy really started turning south in 2007 after Democrats took control of congress. If you look at the deficits from the Bush era you'll see a spike at that point which started dramatic increases in spending and where most of the additional 5 trillion in debt came from. Bush in 04,05,and 06 tried to reign in Freddie and Fannie but was stymied by congressional Democrats. What bubble was it that burst in 08? The housing bubble supported, inflated, and protected by none other than the Democratic party! Construction to that point was the majority employer in this country and when it started laying off the rest of the economy followed down the tubes. As for obstructionists in the senate, Democrats and independents controlled 60 seats in the senate so if a filibuster was allowed to block legislation that means there wasn't unanimous democratic support for the bill. It took bribery and heavy handed threats for Obama, Pelosi, and Reid to get any form of Obama Care through congress or have you forgotten the hold out Democrats in the house? Once the Democrats controlled congress and the White house the flood gates were opened and in his first three years, Obama has rolled up nearly another 5 trillion on the country's credit card! It took Bush 8 years to do that and Bush started in a recession, that was the reason for the 01, and 03 tax cuts along with unemployment approaching 6.5%. The tax cuts and other measures brought unemployment down to 4.6% by mid 07 just in time for the newly democratically controlled congress to start spending dollars hand over fist. Bush is not blameless but Obama and democrats have made this their recession through unbridled spending, and foolish legislation. Their overall strategy of class warfare has backfired beyond belief because they forgot that he who controls the wealth also controls the jobs! That is the essence of any free market system the alternative is communism where government controls it all. Problem is that every communist state has either failed or is failing and most have stood for less than 75 years. China is the only thriving communist economy and that is only because it is slowly opening up to a free market model not because it wants to but because otherwise it would have failed like the rest.
If one looks at the graph, we can easily see that because of all the anti-poverty initiatives taken during Kennedy/Johnson/Nixon era, the number (absolute number) of folks below poverty came down from 40 million to less than 23 millin (17 million drop in 20 years). Again, it increased during Reagan years (may be atrributable to recession) and then during Bush I term, it increased from 32 million to 37 million. It dropped during Clinton's 2 terms and rose again (32 million to 42 million) during Bush II.
Even though this is a short period (50 years), there should be some correlation (no hard data to back it up, I admit) between all the tax-cuts for the rich & wealthy and the tax breaks for the corporations that has been going on during both the Bush's terms. Rich did very well and the poor stayed poor or became poorer. Lesser job opportunities for poor; the Repubs put so many stumbling blocks whenever Dems tried to increase the minimum wages in the past 30 years. I am not sure if one can remember all the drama that these Repubs made when Ted Kennedy tried to do it time and time again.
All these speak volumes about the way Republicans royally messed up our country and helped in engineering a huge shift in the movement of wealth; from the poor and the middle class to the rich.
Rich - My personal investment knowledge bears no meaning on the discussion. You presented two theories and I have merely shown the fallacy of your theories.
Tax cut theory: Does not take into consideration the law of diminishing returns for the revenue per employee statistics.
Minimum wage theory: Does not take into account the cost-of-living threshold, consumer spending, supply and demand, and technological advancements in relation to job growth.
Your attempt to divert the conversation into one of "personal vs. governmental investment" is proof that you have acquiesced my points and have no rebuttal. The personal attacks are further proof that you can not put together a valid argument against my points... so you defer to petty insults.
"Personal vs. governmental investments" are a separate issue. The debate was whether your theories hold true in the real world... they do not.
Dems had a FILIBUSTER PROOF majority in Congress for the 1st 2 years of the Obama Admin. Look it up. EDUCATE YOURSELVES!
Rich, before people can make decisions about how to spend their money - in the case of seniors - they first have to have a viable means of support. In other cases - they first have to have a job.
Absurdities. I've grown weary of this sort of logic. "I can do it all myself," says the Teapublican.
Fine. Go do it. However, at the first sign of anything catastrophic, don't come hat-in-hand. After all, if playing by your theories of economics and societal responsibilities, I have no stake in your well-being. Apparently, I am NOT my brother's keeper if I am a proponent of Teapublican ideologies.
Truth be told, no matter how you want to spin it, the cost of freedom, Democracy and some measure of social equity comes with a cost. The "inefficiencies" are due to programs that benefit the many, as opposed to the individual.
If you don't like that, you need to reassess what your stake in our society is. Insofar as I am concerned, you can just get the f*ck out of the USA. I'm sick to death of the divisive, classicism rhetoric.
Charts are so awesome!
I have some charts of my own. Charts that tell the REAL story, much along the same line as the one in this article.
http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts-about-wealth-and-inequality-in-america-2010-4#the-gap-between-the-top-1-and-everyone-else-hasnt-been-this-bad-since-the-roaring-twenties-1
As soon as the GOPTards can explain these, or finally admit that their policies have failed America for DECADES, the sooner we can start turning this mess around.
Thats not to say that I approve of democrat policies entirely, though. But at least they tend to NOT gradually destroy the economy, or pander to the most affluent at the expense of the middle class.
Hey YouJustSaidWhat,
You made some sense in your second to last paragraph. That is the entire point! If you want the government to take care of you, to equalize outcomes and so on, then the cost must be paid for. We cannot forever continue to borrow from the future to live beyond our means today. If you all want the government to regulate most of your lives then you must be willing to accept an OVERALL decrease in wealth. There is no other way out of it.
And to Newly...lmfao!
And preaching this to a guy firmly embedded in the middle class with liberal social beliefs, is akin to preaching to the choir. You don;t have to explain to me how it is supposed to work. I get it.
How about you take it up with the f*ckers who are treading on the middle class (and below) to ensure they're able to further duck taxation?
YouJustSaidWhat-
You are correct. The problem with people like Rich who say that they can invest better is that they will only invest in themselves.
Would Rich invest in a road for his town that he will never use? Nope.
Will Rich invest in police protection for everyone, or just himself? Just himself.
Will Rich invest in education for society, or just his own kids? His own kids, if he even believes in education... which I doubt.
People are naturally greedy and will always put themselves and their money before the betterment of society. Thus, it is necessary to have an entity that will invest in programs that benefit everyone. Of course, people like Rich would prefer we go back in time a couple hundred years, where everyone is on their own... or simply emulate a current 3rd world country.
Gotta love the hypocrisy from the party of "Christian morals".
Sorry, it's not about taxation. Do you honestly want to increase corporate taxes? Let's do it my brainiac friend. But know this...you will pay the price. If the costs of goods and services doesn't go up the wages paid to serfs like you will go down, or the earnings you get on dividends in your 401k will take a slap, or product quality will decrease, or more firms will outsource, or in some way or another the cost will be passed along.
What you want is to get something--someone else's money--for nothing. It won't work. It has never worked. It can never work. All we achieve in the process is to become less free. There is another way to get at your ostensible goal, but because it's ostensible and not sincere it isn't acceptable to you.
Indeed, N-I! I think quite a few of the wealthier folk (Koch brothers, pay attention!) need to refresh their history lessons from junior high.
Qu'ils mangent de la brioche
We all know what happened next. Am I right?
Let's not forget that what we call "poverty" in the US isn't really poverty.
The "poor" here have so much food they are obese.
The "poor" here have tv, electricity, cable, heat, a/c, running water, and flush toilets.
The "poor" here are given the most expensive elementary education in the world.
The "poor" here are given the most expensive medical care in the world.
All of the "poor" in the US would be considered rich by world standards.
Where else in the world do the "poor" decide that they don't want to do certain jobs such as agriculture, landscaping, or sanitation?
That's pretty much the definition of "poor" - willingness to do any job available.
When illegals come here today and still find work despite 9+% unemployment - you know that the citizens on the dole here are truely not in poverty.
Hey Newly,
But, as I thought, you are completely wrong. Again. There are MANY things government should do. At the federal level these are outlined in Article One. There are many things government should do at the local level too. What I oppose is every effort on your part to federalize every local choice. Maybe your view in your city is that we should have police, but also that we should provide health care for free to anyone who wants it at any time. I can agree with the former, not with the latter. But if it's the local voting populations choice then I have two options. I can live with it or leave.
But when you federalize this, and that is what we are talking about here, not the local choices you might want to make, then I want you to go by the constitution and not how you feel about whatever you have cross your mind. Just because you think it's a good idea doesn't make it constitutional, and just because you want it done doesn't mean it should be done nationally. If you are so confident in your position you should WANT to do all of this locally and prove the rest of us wrong.
But you really aren't confident. And you certainly have no fidelity to the constitution. So why should I want to compromise with you? Why should I want to give you even an inch? Because of your false belief in your own nobility?
Let's not forget that what we call "poverty" in the US isn't really poverty.
You know there are people in the slums in India who have cell phones...
HOW DARE POOR PEOPLE HAVE THINGS.
/sarcasm
And they live in mud huts and drink unfiltered water and sh!t in a hole in the ground. What is your point? It's NOTHING like the US. Stop trying to make it sound like 13% of our country is destitute and living out of a dumpster.
I didn't say anything about business taxation, did I? The rest of your post is moot, but I'll play along.
Yes, let's do, asshat. And I'm not your friend.
Again. You're telling a social liberal that ... taking care of the rest of society comes with a price. Here's a hint: that type of fear mongering doesn't work on us.
I make decent money. I'm not a social liberal because it benefits me directly. Thanks, though for illustrating your classicism beliefs my "insulting" me with a synonym for peasant. (bolded in quote for emphasis.)
I don't invest in a 401(k). The last time I had money in a 401(k), I lost my ass ... much like the rest of middle America. My investment in my future lies securely elsewhere.
Do we need to recap the fact that a significant amount of manufactured, consumable goods aren't even made in the United States and are -- arguably -- already made for a pittance of cost?
To be clear:
I
don't
want
or
need
a dime.
But there is a significant, and growing, populace of our society that do need help.
Equity DOES work.
Bull@!$%#.
More bull@!$%#.
So, am I reading you correctly that -- somehow -- the people who "have it" are somehow protecting the integrity of our nation by NOT sharing?
Okay, I'll bite: HOW do we get at that goal?
No, you are purposely reading me wrong. Because you are a leftist. What you want has never in human history worked, and yet continues to be tried. Equity is not possible if outcomes are how we determine it. It isn't even possible if opportunity is how we determine it, but at least on that score we can make progress.
Whoever you want to tax that has more than you will alter their life in some way, it cannot be avoided. Either they will spend (invest) less, or they will save less, and in both cases unless you think the government will spend or invest better then overall wealth will decline relative to what it otherwise would have been. These costs are going to be passed along to the very people you seem most concerned about, which is why I conclude that you aren't concerned about them at all, but rather you care more about how you feel in passing out someone else's money to them.
To do what you want to accomplish, if you were sincere about it, would require less reliance upon the feds and more on the local government. If you have faith in your views and believe they will work, then they will work at the local level just as well as anywhere. And, if you think they will not work locally then you either mean to say you are inept locally or there will be a cost borne by the local people that they will try to escape. If the former, what can I say? But if the latter, then the same argument is true nationally. And just as you claim that many firms are producing what we buy overseas now, the result will be that more move along.
There is a cost for every alternative. Your ideas produce more poverty, but on a more equal basis. The nation becomes less wealthy, less powerful. I can't agree and won't agree with you. My idea is to have less taxation of business, less regulation of business. I believe that we can compete globally and that for many of the jobs that are gone there is no reason for it but for government interference making it more profitable to leave. I have faith in your ability, despite your posts, to do better. and I have faith in the very people you claim you want to help to get up and go to work. Man up and act like an American. Geesus!
You're completely and utterly delusional if you believe that, in an attempt to try to compete with the production costs of China, Vietnam and other global sweatshop countries, the United States should further deregulates industry.
Jesus, indeed.
So then you would close off our borders to trade, yes? Like I said..Your ideas make us less free. Please, when you have a chance, look back to the economic collapse of the 1920s and see if you can find any parallel to your idea that we should limit trade and tell us all how THAT idea worked out.
Rich -
When the US Constitution gave the majority of the powers to the states, it was designed so we could have innovation by and protection from Gov't.
It creates 50 experiments in Democracy. It also creates 50 fire walls to bad Governance.
Very telling that liberals MUST have their ideas on a national scale to work. Funny, a more prudent way would be to try the policies for a while in some states, and then if it works, to try it nationally.
The reality is their ideas do not work. They simply don't want you to have the alternative of just leaving a state with a bad policy. They can't bear the thought of the comparison between states that would prove they are misguided.
Luckily, Europe is already showing us how the liberal/Democrat ideas are failures. We should learn from them that big Gov't won't work. As the European Countries collapse, we will see how much they spent on the Welfare state. It will be a cautionary tale for the US. My hope is we can change course before it's too late.
Hey Ryan,
It's that very issue--state versus federal--that our leftist friends continue to ignore. Nothing in the US Constitution prohibits one state from having a single-payer health care system, for instance. Yet leftists don't demand it at the state level, they demand it federally. This is tacit admission they know that it won't work unless done universally. And so when done nationally they will accomplish for the country what they wouldn't risk for their own state--we will become less competitive and jobs will continue to flee.
Rich - The liberals get that their own policies would cause a loss of competitiveness with other states.
What they can't/won't get is that the same thing happens on a national level.
But instead of jobs leaving one state for another one, they leave our country for another one.
Tahnk Goodness we were a couple of decades "behind" Europe. We will get a live, televised look at where Massive Welfare state Gov't leads. It will come just before the 2012 elections.
It's just a no brainer to make it THE election issue. Their ideas are identical to us liberal/progressive/Democrat ones. Heck, those European countries don't even spend much on military.
No. I didn't say that. I didn't even allude to that.
... and your derail is really, really failing. How is anything you've said related to trying to establish social equilibrium?
Admit it: you don't have a single f*cking solution to the ever-expanding divide between the haves and have nots.
What is your point?
My point being that many poor people, haven't been poor for very long if they are now poor from losing their jobs, so of course they have things they accumulated from before they were poor.
Perhaps if they hadn't accumulated these things, they would have had savings to live on. My grandmother finally bought a flat screen TV last month.....after having a Zenith TV that weighed about 900lbs in a box in her front room since 1989. Perhaps if the middle class hadn't so GLUTTONOUSLY consumed during the boom, they wouldn't be so bad off in the bust.
RealAmericansFirst,
You are correct.
During the previous 8 years before Obama became president – an increase in poverty occurred when the nation was supposedly in a better financial state.
The spike in Poverty under Obama’s predecessor reveals a substantial event.
The increase in America’s poor people between the years 2000 and 2008 – clearly represents a transfer of the nation’s wealth from the poor and middle-class to the wealthy.
It is disgusting that people are blaming Obama for this country's financial ills.
Is this the kind of "change" we were to expect this far into the Obama administration, I "hope" not.
Only if Congress would allow him to do some of the change he promissed
You guys really need to come up with something new besides blaming the President...Do you have any idea what the Republican controlled congress is responsible for? Millions of people driven into poverty, I guess you guys are going to tell us how they are all lazy people sucking on the government tit... You really need to get a clue. The Teapublican party has done nothing but stand in the way of anything that would help this econimic disaster, and now they will once again stand in the way of the jobs bill, and you will all jump on board in lock step telling us all how it's President Obama's fault. In the mean time nothing will be done, more people will be driven into poverty, the economy will be hurt more. And the TeaPublicans will spend more time trying to avoid their responsibility then it would take to help the American People... Shame on them and shame on all of you who support them...
Tim:
The House (not the Congress) has only been controlled by the Republicans for 8 months. Are you telling us that all of those folks out there were driven into poverty in the last 8 months?
Spider, you are correct. It was 8 years of Republican control that got us into this mess. Now, They are blocking ANYTHING that might help us get out of it. I guess you forgot that we had a SURPLESS when Republicans took over, and the BIGGEST Deficit EVER when the Dems took over. If the Pres didn't dol anything, the whole world would be upside down now!
Correction....if only the RepubliCONs allowed Congress to do some of the change he promised. Then again, their number one goal is to make sure Obama is a one term President.
In my opinion, both parties are to blame for this economy. The Republicans for their support of corporate greed, the Democrats for their spineless opposition. The Republicans for taking large sums of money from their corporate masters, the Democrats for taking large sums of money from their corporate masters. And we the People get screwed. This time, however, the Republicans have gone so far as to state their number one priority is to assure defeat of the President. To hell with the American People, all that is important is regaining the White House. The NO votes and the clear lack of legislation is a clear indication that the Republican Party would rather watch the economy fall apart and the American People suffer than to consider compromise. Want additional evidence, the "Norquist Pledge" that supersedes all other Constitutional duties.
Spider, as Jasmine stated the McConnel mantra, speak on that and the effect it would have and has been having on our economy. If parties don't work together, and one side get 98% of what they want, what makes you think things would get better. If the POTUS loses, we all lose, and this... just for the sake of power. Why don't you speak about that spider?
Ol doc... while I agree with your statement, being spineless doesn't not mean they are not trying. They are failing yes, but it shows the complete contrast of which party is "trying" to help. You stated it correctly, corporate greed. And now this jobs bill places taxes rightly so, on the non job creators, to assist in the recovery. They can afford it, give a little... it will go a long way (hopefully). Just pass the jobs bill, and if everything goes to @!$%#, then that right there is the POTUS's head stone. Then you all can have the POWER back that you all are fervantly seeking. If it works, then it has been you, the conservatives, all along that is against the middle class and recovery, for the sake of POWER.
What a stupid society we have! Blame Democrats blame Republicans blame Tea Party!
They love IT!
Corporate America = ModernDay Slavery
We are breaking the record of Billionaire and Millionaire Made while at the same time record highs of poverty!
It isn't freakin rocket science!
I don't know about your family but my rich family doesn't help me out in my times of need my poor family does. That is why they are Rich.
Vote for another Rich person to represent you!
Stupid is as Stupid does!
It must be that other poor guys fault I am poor! Or those people that can make it pay check to pay checks fault!
Tim, Republicans do not control congress. They have 1/2 of one house. the Democrats controlled it for 4 years.
When this happened the republicans were the minority.
Making Obama a one term president would be the best thing the republicans can do for job creation.
hey !! i'm in dat 15%, who Cares ?? I'M STILL STANDING !!!..$$$$ doesn't drive me Wild & Crazy, fine with it or without it..just another mello-yellow day in America, have a Good Day..........
I'll tell you the one thing that is guaranteed NOT to lower the poverty rate: Blaming someone else. Nobody's hands are clean in this. But solving problems doesn't get votes. Blaming someone else does.
Does no one see the absolute hypocrisy from the left?
You hear them daily scream about unfunded wars, yet with the passing of this next stimulus, Obamas frivilous, unfunded spending will eclipse the cost of BOTH wars over almost a decade.
Where is your outrage now? Oh, right, he's a Democrat, so you don't have any.
Rob-855126 since you sound like the party of NO!!!!, which means either a TEA PARTY supporter or a REPUBLICAN. you have NO REASON to COMPLAIN. Your lemmons are doing exactly what you hired them to do. Block, stall some more, introduce bills to FURTHER ENRICH the 2% to the detriment of the 98%. You see, it only takes ONE SENATOR in the Senate to block, prevent ANYTHING from being accomplished. Your party of NO!!!! stated that there would be OPEN AMENDMENTS, PARTISANSHIP,etc. Gee, I think 99% of the bills offered in the HOUSE by the TEA/PUBLICANS have been by CLOSED RULES, which means NO amendments, NO debate. It is only going to be OUR way. You know the funny thing? They also don't hold committee meetings. Ryan writes the bill, goes to a vote by the majority Republicans and then send to the Senate, where they no there will be no vote, because the bill NEVER went to the committees it was supposed to go to. Then your friendly MINORITY leader DEMANDS a vote on a bill that NOONE has read, NO DEBATE. Gee, rfeminds me alot of the period between 200 and 2006 when bills were PASSED by RECONCILATION!!! You know, that DIRTY WORD in REPUBLICAN LEXICON.
Yes, Chuck.....how DARE those dirty Republicans do what they were elected to do, and stop Obama from writing blank checks and pushing the economy further down into oblivion. WHERE DO THEY GET OFF?!?!
Tim-1912664,
Speaking of the Republicans driving people in to poverty. You can add 2.6 million from 2009 - 2010
paulie
Sorry to burst your bubble but when Bush was in office I was making twice what I am now, I was set to retire at 55 and life had much less stress. Now the only decent paying job I could find, was not only not in my field but pays less than half of what I was making, my retirement is nearly gone because of over a year of unemployment and another two of making half of what I was has sucked the well dry not to mention the huge losses I took when the market crashed. Democrats now own this mess by not being effective enough to help it rebound. Obama is nothing more than a gifted speaker that is in way over his head.
Wait a minute...are you leftists actually now arguing that when Bush was president you supported him because you wanted him to succeed? I'm sorry, but I just shot Coca Cola out my nose from laughing so hard. Let's quit being facetious. You wanted Bush to fail the same way I want Obama to fail--you wanted Bush policies to be defeated, and you wanted Bush to lose in 2004.
Obama proposed his most recent dumb idea previously (certain parts of it anyhow) and even DEMOCRATS voted it down. We do not have a serious president wanting a serious debate to achieve a fair compromise. We have a game playing infant. Of COURSE I want him to be defeated.
Outstanding.
1. The Democrats spent too much time passing the health-care bill when they had power to do anything else. Now they can't get a damn thing done past the Republican's since they took over.
2. Obama isn't trying to write any blank checks. The Republican party is telling him that they will only agree to a budget and all future plans that include "trimming" of social programs to cut fat without raising any taxes on their rich contributors. Trimming means cutting funding from the programs that help the folks in poverty, while they do nothing to fix the economy.
3. You cannot sit there and blame Obama for anything that's going on without sounding like a complete idiot. Obama is a talking head to our government structure. He doesn't have the power to pass or deny anything. Even his veto power is pretty limited, considering the vote has to be fairly close for him to veto anything. You can blame Bush for the war, since he pushed false information to Congress for the declaration, but you can't blame Obama for anything so far. He doesn't have the power.
4. I took FMLA for a back injury. Instead of going to work and faking an accident, I held to the fact that it was not work related. My FMLA extension was denied and I was fired a week before back surgery by a corporation, which cut my benefits the day I was fired. I've been through absolute hell for the past 4 months trying to afford COBRA to have the surgery, during which time I cannot collect unemployment or anything else. I depend on my wife and family. Anyone that believes the top 2% that run these corporations need lower taxes to create jobs is a lunatic. You can completely remove their taxes and not see a single job created. They are getting far too greedy to care about anything but profit maximization, which no longer includes expansion like it used to before the internet and globalism.
Making Obama a one term president would create a lot of government jobs for Republicans in DC, but that's about it. Republicans don't want all Americans to have Health Insurance, and if you listened to the debate monday, you now know that many of them would prefer sick poor people just died. They want to sismantle social security, put the money in Wall Street, and individualize the accounts, so that richer people benefit more than poorer people. They would rather gut medicare than fix the rising cost of health care, and they have proven that they are willing to crash the economy of this nation, rather than raise taxes on millionaires and billionaires. The very best candidate they have so far wants to have creationism taught along side science in our children's schools.
If you want to make Obama a one term president, find a better candidate and DO something about your platform!
Apparently, the promise of "hope and change" has become the harsh and bitter reality of "economic despair and broken dreams". What this administration is doing to this economy and our country is a disgrace. January 20, 2013 cannot get here soon enough.
GS - what are your proposals and what would you have done differently ?
Shanell-4089908:
So far, President Obama has kept most of his campaign promises. Obummer!
CW Mills:
When did the Republicans take over? B H Obama is a Democrat and the Senate is controlled by the Dems. The Republicans only control the House since January Y2011.
#4: Go look in the mirror if you want/need someone to blame.
A very Interesting quote in light of the present financial crisis, it's interesting to read what Thomas Jefferson said in 1802:
”I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”
Fantastic. Unfortunately, we have become a society whos laws and policies are now created by the higest bidder. The nearest action our leaders now take that resembles the intentions of Jefferson and Franklin are the now propaganda like displays of the flag with the little american flag pins. Even though they were made in a communist factory a few thousand miles away. I wonder how Mr. Jefferson would feel if he knew that new recruits into the armed forcess are told by thier commanders to remove the tags on thier 1st set of uniforms that say MADE IN CHINA. Like I had to some years ago.
It's the politicians that get put into power by the sheep that make this possible. Sorry thing about it, people can vote out all the incumbents and send a clear message. Won't ever happen cuz the sheep listen to the lies.
Not fantastic - False quote, check snopes.
http://www.snopes.com/quotes/jefferson/banks.asp
It would be more interesting if Jefferson had actually said that! I challenge you to come up with a document or speech attributed to Jefferson that contains that quote. The word deflation in reference to currency dates to 1920. Interesting that Jefferson used the term in 1802.
This is OBUMO"S fault plain and simple. The buck stops at the oval office! This man has taken so many vacations I can't count them all!! He has spent 3 years campaigning and vacationing.....
To all the lefties, go out start your own businesses try it!!! You won't because you would rather sit back and wait for OBUMO to feed and house you.. Actually you will sit on your butts while the rest of us work to feed and house you!
Read on Geodude: 
It is very close to something Thomas Jefferson said to John Taylor in this letter, written in May of 1816. Look in the last paragraph, or just search with ctrl+F for "standing". Though not exactly word for word, the general idea is the same.
Randy, wipe the spittle from your chin. You watch way too much Fox News. Beck, O'Reilly and Hannity are lying to you.
As for us "lefties" sitting on our asses, go take a look at which states have the highest median income. Here's a hint: It's not the good, god fearing' southern states. Red states take in more federal aid than blue states. How is that, Randy, if us "lefties" are sitting on our asses collecting welfare?
Uh, wrong. Of the top 10 states that receieve the most federal funds, 7 are Blue. Once again, you're only using HALF the numbers to fit your agenda. People see that states like Alaska get .79 per dollar back, then see NJ only get .34 and think "Man, red states get more money!". You forget to multiply that by population. NJ then gets almost 4x what Alaska gets in federal aid. Nice try, but no.
PS - Not everyone who doesn't think exactly what you do is a "Fox news viewer" or fan of Beck. That's about as bigoted as saying all black people are thieves.
Thanks Grarms for the facts:
The left is really good at "SPIN" or as I call it lying.
Sorry, but 8 of the top 10 states that receive more federal money per dollar of federal taxes paid are republican.
1. D.C. ($6.17)
2. North Dakota ($2.03)
3. New Mexico ($1.89)
4. Mississippi ($1.84)
5. Alaska ($1.82)
6. West Virginia ($1.74)
7. Montana ($1.64)
8. Alabama ($1.61)
9. South Dakota ($1.59)
10. Arkansas ($1.53)
So, once again, we're supporting YOUR lazy asses.
must be 1 or 2 democrats living in each of those states?
How about this Barry-1539263 get the complete list of 50 States and US Territories, then, if you know how to, add up the numbers based on population as to how much the Demoncraps and Repugnants are getting.
Once again, Barry, you're only using HALF THE NUMBERS. Multiply those numbers BY THE POPULATION OF EACH STATE and see how those numbers come out.
And these are all filled with Americans. Is there anyone left willing to put patriotism above partisanship?
The District of Columbia is NOT a state... yet.
Six (6) of the listed received large amounts due to the fact that the USA federal governmnet is the largest landowner. You seem to be twisting the numbers to suit your spin.
I'm somewhat shocked, I expected things to be significantly worse. That's not to say this is especially good news, but it doesn't appear to be world ending. Yet.
Think about where this information is coming from and you will realize that things are significantly worse.
nattering naybob of negativism - You are making Spiro Agnew restless and very surprised at what Republicans have become
I don't even see why this is news. Wasn't this a given with the state of employment and economy?
If you go back and listen to Obama's campaign speeches, I don't believe this was supposed to happen. Therefore, unfortunately, yes, it is news. Bad news.
If I go back and listen to every speech ALL politicians have given since I was born, none of it ever comes true. So why don't you stop reading comic books and enlighten yourself with a tad more knowledge.
Are you honestly holding Obama responsible for this when he was no where near any banking deregulation, bank leverage increases and 2 unfunded wars going on the books 1 year after he was elected? Really? Seriously?
This guy could magically create gold out of thin air and people like you would still complain.
I think our US companies should continue to send jobs overseas in the spirit of the global economy and let us know how it works out years from now! Think about it, 3.2 million jobs went overseas. How do you think that would affect the unemployment rate?
Yes, he is responsible. Besides, he did promise to "improve" things not make them worse.
I don't think Tony-From-NJ is necessarily holding Obama responsible, it's just that ALL politicians lie, NONE of them know how to solve any issue, and ALL of them are only interested in one thing - advancing their own self interests. I grew up in the 1970s and it's been that way as long as I can remember.
Its keeping the employment rate in China looking great. Oh us? Not so good. We are more worried about terrorism than we are about industrial might.
You read that correctly UdunnoBro. The typical Obama basher like Rob above usually doesn't have anything brighter to say. My point was that this happens to every single President. Obama is no more guilty than any other. If you bashers want to impress me, find a solution.
Bravo Tony...
And as much as you liberals would like for it to be true, George Bush is not responsible for the world wide credit crisis.
This crap of the blame game has to stop. This is what they all want. To keep us SO BUSY fighting with each other, that we don't notice them BOTH robbing us blind. They've all failed; The Tea Party, the Democrats, the Republicans, Obama. They've all chosen to stand by party politics instead of what is best for us. We need to get rid of ALL of them.
Rick, no one but brain dead individuals are here blaming anyone in particular.
kingo and Gharms, thank you. Lets focus on the positive and a fix. This nation has some incredibly intelligent people, but unfortunately politics has become the new religion that prevents forward progress.
How can you not blame the guy who presided over repeated bank deregulation, lowered taxes and exploded deficits, government growth and started 2 unfunded wars yet blame the guy who was handed an economy hemorrhaging 400K jobs each month plus a financial melt down of great depression proportions? You people cant see beyond the end of your noses.
Mike, I notice you and your friends like to mention "unfunded wars", yet see no hypocrisy is Obama asking for another almosta half a trillion dollars for stimulus that is unfunded (again) that will lead to him having spent more on failed stimulus programs then both wars combined for almost a decade.
What the F**K did you hire him to do? "Looks and Sounds like a President" (majority of Newsvine Posts during the Presidential Debates).
You just love posting uneducated, uniformed emotive opinons (also reflected by those that voted for your posts).
President Obama's FIRST PRIORTITY MUST have been to Reinstate those US Laws that made Illegal the Causes of the 1907 Depression, 1929-1939 Great Depression and the current $60-100 Trillion USD "Global Economic Crisis" consisting of the "Mortgage Crisis"*, "Wall Street Crisis"*, "Financial Crisis"*, "Banking Crisis"*, "Credit Crisis"*, etc.
*Key indicators that the US (and most of the World) are in a DEPRESSION and NOT a Recession. Poverty increases are also an indicator of a Depression.
YOU, Mike-416, AND THE REST OF THE UNEDUCATED, UNINFORMED just love screaming "ILLEGAL", "UNFUNDED", "WAR CRIMINAL". And you do not even know anything.
1. US Congress NOT the US President "Holds the Purse Strings" (meaning you and those that voted for your posts never graduated High School Civics).
2. Iraq, 100% LEGAL By US Laws with Congressional Appropriations (FUNDED).
a. US Law (100% LEGAL), 1998 H.R. 4655, "Overthrow of President Hussein" with US Congressional Appropriations (FUNDED).
b. Based on the previously approved US Congressional Intelligence of H.R.4655, the final means to achieve H.R.4655 "Overthrow of President Hussein" are used, the US Military with a US Congressional Declaration of War with Iraq by US Law (100% LEGAL), 2002 Iraqi War Resolution with US Congressional Appropriations (FUNDED).
c. Afghanistan has similar US Laws (100% LEGAL) with US Congressional Appropriations (FUNDED).
d. Both Iraq and Afghanistan are UN Missions, Nation Building.
What does President Obama have for Libya? No US Law (100% ILLEGAL) and no US Congressional Appropriations (UNFUNDED) prior to the First US Military Actions. Any US Law or Congressional Appropriations written after the First US Military Actions is proof of his "War Criminal" Violations of US Law that restricts his Presidential War Powers, 1973 War Powers Resolution, designed to prevent future Vietnams (US Citizens having no say, and then having to foot the Bill).
And how smart was throwing all these US Citizens on Unemployment:
a. Pricey Jet Fighters Add Up To Local Jobs
CBS Evening News: Funding For F-22 Jets Is On The Chopping Block, But Building Them Keeps 95,000 People Employed
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/03/25/eveningnews/main4893248.shtml?tag=mncol;lst;2
b. April 2009 Defense Budget Cuts (USAF F-22 above and USN). One USN Aircraft Carrier Group (USN thrown on Umemployment 6,000 on Aircraft Carrier, then there are the support ships, US Civilian Dock Workers, US Civilian Machinists, US Civilian Dry Dock Workers, etc.).
c. Many more for the Future, (soon), Reduction in Forces of 27,000 US Military Personnel and the xxx,xxx US Civilians jobs that support them.
BOTH parties are responsible for this, and BOTH parties need to be held accountable in the upcoming elections. We share the blame as well for letting our employees, the politicians, run amok. Voter apathy plays a large part in our current situation.
Both parties huh? If I do recall the Democrats had FULL controll in 2010! They couln't even pass a budget with FULL control.
James, quit being a tool
Are you so short sighted that you believe the increase of poverty in 2010 is a culmination of policy and events that occurred ONLY in 2010? Myopia has a name and it is James.
@Fire Congress,
Couldn't agree more, but what can a voter do? Either vote for a different party and get the same results or don't vote at all. What we need to insist on (albeit a carryover from the British monarchy) is to institute a "vote of no confidence" amendment if and when things get bad enough. We the people should be given the power to rid ourselves of ineffectual governance before it escalates.
Kyzzyxx...
A tool huh? lol
Silly silly Kyzzyxx!
James, it took more than one congressional session to create this problem. It is the result of years of deregulation, lack of bargaining rights for employees and the exportation of jobs.
At $250K/yr total compensation per congressional rep. who out there thinks these schmucks in DC know how we live and can accurately represent our needs in national politics?
You want Soc. Sec. fixed? The Donkey plan is to eliminate the gvt. pensions and make them retire on Soc. Sec. like the rest of us. Who out there thinks this won't fix Soc. Sec. within one year?
If we dump this "ruling elite" biz and make our reps live like the folks they are representing we can solve a lot of our gvt. induced problems.
James,Yes you are a tool of the Right wing noise machine. the exact words you wrote are talking points parroted by all the dutiful talking heads on a daily, hourly, minute to minute basis.
You must not be very educated in political sceince because even though you claim the Democrats had "full control", the Senate initiated their filibuster rules back in 1919 enabling any Senator who wishes to become obstructionist to do so to their hearts content. In 1975 the rule was changed to make it only 60 senators needed to vote for cloture rather then the previous 2/3'ds. the Political reality of the US congress makes it such that even though one party has the majority (51 or more) Senators, they can still be thwarted in attempts to pass laws unless members of the other party "cross the line" and vote for cloture to end filibusters. Here is a good link for this information which I am sure you won't bother to won't read.
uspolitics.about.com/od/usgovernment/a/filibuster.htm
chuckzul - First off, don't touch the straight ticket handle. Vote for an Independent at every opportunity to do away with the rabid "party" loyalty. If you are not a member of either party then you have no allegiance to either party.
Intelligent Donkey - You are correct. If the congressional salary was set at the median wage in the US you would see this economy turn around in a heartbeat. It should be set at the median wage and adjusted every march 1 for the previous year. That way if the median wage goes up, so does their salary. If it goes down, so does their salary. If this were to happen you would see job growth increase at an astounding rate as well as wages increasing. It would have to be done on a grass roots level by petitioning for a constitutional amendment to make it happen because the greedy bastards would never cut their own throats by taking a cut from $250,000 to $49,000. Also included in this amendment would have to be a provision that any elected official found guilty of graft, corruption, or bribery, or misappropriation of government funds would be guilty of High Treason and punishable only by death. That's the only way to straighten it out. We might have to execute a couple who try, but the others would get the message fast.
Post #2.16 - You get the society you pay for, what you deserve and merit, the roosters are coming home?
Yeah she left and you are probably right - Probably right I guess – BUT – I still miss her I wonder
why? Oh yes poverty, I think these numbers are low but one correction a family of four is considered above the poverty line which is $22,500 give or take a few hundred. Now I ask myself how can a family of four (two parents and two children) exist? I mean I live in Los Angeles am I supposed to pack up and move to where? I mean where it is more affordable and live in a safe neighborhood and meet the other costs of living such as car insurance? I have no idea how they could do that here, I mean live in our better areas.
Gates and Buffet do give but they can't carry the whole load for the poster on the benevolence of the super-rich no we need to raise taxes back before Bush and maybe undo some of Reagan economics I think the old man would even be shaken by these numbers but this new crew of Teapublicans no they
are the lackeys and bagmen for the special interest not the representatives the American people but the Bible Thumpers don't understand as the Governor of Texas asked Texas to pray for rain and he did and instead the Lord has given this Teapublican fire and drought.
Now just ask yourself if I pray for rain because I desperately need it and I am given drought and fire should not one question what one is doing for the Lord to answer my prayers thusly? I think Perry
should ask himself and all of his followers why the Lord answered his and their prayers with destruction.
The worst is not over as the Teapublicans want a cut off of unemployment and even food stamps – No I am afraid the worst is not over and is yet to be. Watch and see getting Obama out will only hasten what could be inevitable and you have no one to blame those that reversed the idea of "The Great Society" and ended the draft along with other lofty goals for a society of countrymen and women.
Another major terrorist attack and with what troops would you use to repond with? Hint there are not any left - so how to combat a threat? Hummmmm How to pay and protect the riches of the rich? Hummmm
Have a great day – Good Luck
See solution at post#1.47.
Will not work. Nobody can Retire on the IOUs that were Replaced by US Congress after both Parties Raped the US Citizens Contributory Fund money from Social Security. Every time you hear any US Politician refer to Social Security as an "Entitlement" they want to confuse a US Citizen Contributory Fund with the US Taxpayer Funded "Entitlements" of Welfare, Public Assistance, Food Stamps, etc. so that they do NOT have to put all the US Citizens money back into Social Security that they stole.
It's astounding how many people blame the President and Congress for our economy and poverty. Everyone forget that it was a few banks, insurance firms, and lending institutions that created the bubble that blew the global economy to hell?
Reagan deregulated banking institutions too. Shall we go all the way back and blame him too? It's easy to blame every President after the fact. Why is everyone still doing business with these institutions that caused all hell to break loose again? Put the blame where it belongs and quit giving those bastards your money.
BAGHEADS and extreme leftists NOT AT WORK for you, while the skirt wearing fanbois vote for them. Good job, worthless people who want your politicians to do nothing to 'make a stand.' Like you aren't the tool of some agenda.
Who was the President in 1983? Oh wait, the Great Communicator.
What was the GDP in 83? Come on graybeard, show the whole picture and not a peice.
Graybeard is bad at math. He went back 28 years intead of 18...lol. Clinton was prez 18 years ago.
This is what you get with Obamanomics. So how is all that "Change" working out for everyone??
You can't blame this on Obama. The Census was done before any of Obam policies could have caused any significant change. These numbers are the result of 8 years of bush and his policies that wrecked the economy.
Keep telling yourself that Mike!
plus a congress that won't allow obama to do a thing....
James, check your facts. The US Census covered April 15, 2001 to April 15, 2010. Fact, Obama was president for 1 year out of the 10. gw bush was president for the 8 of those 10 years. Fact, the ecomomy collapsed under bush as a result of his failed economic policies. Fact, when Obama took office the economy was on a down spiral loosing jobs every month. Fact, after 1 year Obama's policies stopped the down spiral and start the economy on and up climb. While you may not like Obama you can not honestly blame him for the increase in the poverty numbers. I have mo issues with Obama but this is not one of them.
reeblite - Look up the bills passed by the house that are laying DEAD on the Senate Majority Leader's desk. The house is passing bills to help the jobs / unemployment / fiscal picture. Problem is, the party of NO (Democrats) will not even bring the bills to committee for consideration.
It is "my way or the highway" with the Democrats. Either we go along with THEIR programs, or we are obstructionists who stand in the way of progress. If a bill (or any idea) doesn't fit the leftist agenda, it is put in the bathroom to be used for toilet paper. Then the left cry's out "they won't do anything", "they are the party of no", they offer no good ideas to help", they play games and hold America hostage", etc...
The leftist media reports what they want you to know, and leave out the rest. But the facts are there if you know where to look for them!
Concernedone... your assumption of the my way or high way attitude of the Dems is complete and utter BS. Was there not a huge swing to offer more conservative bills for COMPROMISE than anything in the last year or two? And fillabustering everything does what? Do you know why the bills on are Mr Reids desk, besides your ignorant assumptions? Because that is something I would like to know also...
One more thing, i've never seen a democratic bill get 98% of what they wanted, so come again with that BS you speak of???
James, stay strong, don't let mere facts get in the way of your mission, whatever that mission is.
Good morning all: when you folks reference "my way, or the highway", does that mean that "my way" is the LOW WAY?
kingo- Please look at the following link & notice how Mr. Reid stands in the way of economic recovery and market certainty. What does the left think they are trying to accomplish? What good can come from stopping these bills without even bringing them up for debate? Why does the left WANT us to fail? Why must we go along with THEIR programs if we want to keep the ball rolling? These measures are kept in silence, while Obama is out on the campaign trail demanding to 'PASS MY BILL AND STOP PLAYING GAMES!'
Who the hell is playing games?
http://majorityleader.gov/JobsTracker/
@concernedone
I've seen that link before. It's a piece of sh*t. What is in any of those bills Cantor says are stalled? Don't tell me the GOP is trying to do something about jobs without showing any of the substance of the bills. How do you know what's in them? Is Cantor pulling a Pelosi and saying we need to pass them so we can find out whats in them?
Cantor is a scumbag. Case in point:
http://addmorejuice.newsvine.com/_news/2011/09/12/7730755-cantor-voted-for-billions-to-rebuild-schools-in-iraq-now-opposes-funding-school-construction-in-america
@concernedone
Sooooo... I looked up just two of the bills on that link you provided. Guess what? I still think it's a piece of sh*t.
H.R.-872 stops farmers from having to get a permit to discharge pesticides into navigable waters. No job creation there.
H.R.-910 stops the Admistrator of the EPA from "promulgating any regulation concerning, taking action relating to, or taking into consideration the emission of a greenhouse gas due to concerns regarding possible climate change". Again no job creation.
I couldn't be bothered to investigate any of the other bills because I'm already sure they're just more right-wing bullcrap that have absolutely nothing to do with job creation.
nobody - This not a "Pelosi". Follow the HB numbers and see these have already been reviewed and passed by the House. They are stalled in the Senate without being considered. Reid calls these "DOA's". Dead on arrival because they do nothing to support the current path the left would have this country walk down. Again I ask, what the hell are they trying to accomplish?
BTW, I am NOT a Cantor fan. I saw this link a few days ago and appreciated it for its content, not because it was on Cantor's web site. I am an independent voter who wants to see this country successful once again!
nobody - You do realize what you quoted in HB 910 was what the president took upon himself to repeal last week, correct?
Hurts, don't it?
concernedone
Not really. H.R. 910 is listed on the link you provided as stalled in the Senate.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d112:h.r.910:
Check the link.
You're touting Cantor's web page as some magic bullet to show all the GOP has done on job creation and the first 2 bills I looked up have exactly jack sh*t to do with jobs. Why do you think he didn't bother listing any actual content of the bills on the site? Because he knows his lemmings don't really care what's in them as long as they're not Democrat ideas.
Hurts don't it?
nobody - OK, slow down and think straight. HR 910 IS still on Reid's desk. The part of it YOU quoted was acknowledged by president Obama and handled in his "special presidential" way, free of the Senate having to vote on the rest of the bill. By executive order, Obama brought into being something the Republicans were arguing for, as one way to remove the constraints put on energy companies. Obama saw this was necessary, and took care of it. I give him all the credit in the world for it. I think Obama IS willing to bend and negotiate - unlike the vermin in the Senate.
Hurts, don't it?
Bottom line is, deregulation helps stimulate the economy. It costs less for companies to do business here, and therefore, they are likely to invest and hire here. There are also non-dereg bills in that list. I notice that you just completely ignore those.
Bottom line, you all keep screaming about creating jobs. Government doesn't create jobs. It creates an environment that is hospitable to job growth, and deregulating already over-regulated industry is a way to do that. You can argue and spin it any way you'd like, but thems the facts.
Actually Gharms, I stopped after the first two because they're crap. Bottom line is, deregulation only helps stimulate corporate bottom lines. Regardless of what it costs businesses to operate here they're still going to invest overseas. Dirt cheap labor, corrupt "easily bought" governments and lax environmental regulations make it a no-brainer for a company with no loyalty to the economy that afforded them the opportunity to get as big as they are in the first place.
The flip-side is that environmental regs cause businesses to invest in new equipment to meet those regs. That equipment doesn't build or install itself. Seriously though, why would an American company actually want to spend any money in America?
@concernedone
So I'm up to speed on the whole EPA regs business. You got me on the whole Obama repeal thing, I'll give you that. But, isn't it odd that those ozone level standards were approved in '08 by Bush? Seems to me the GOP didn't see it as a job killer back then. Why the change?
Back on topic. I was originally criticizing your link to Cantor's website. I still think it's sh*t. It's just another Washington dog and pony show. They put up a halfa**ed attempt at showing some "progress" but offer no substance as to what the bills even are. It's just more political bullcrap. The GOP only controls 1/3 of our government. Maybe they should try working with the other 2/3.
Still doesn't hurt.
nobody - Companies will invest in America as long as they can expect a profit. What this all boils down to (as far as manufacturing) is how do manufacturers remain profitable while operating in this country? If a textile company can operate with profit in Alabama, it will remain in Alabama. As it was in a very close and personal experience of mine, to remain profitable vs.American imports by mega companies like Wal Mart, the textile company in the town I used to live in had to close its doors and move production to Asia. No warning given. No severance pay. No vacation pay. Workers showed up for work & found the gates chained and locked.
What drove the company away was the large distributors could make more margin if they bought cheaper products from Asia. If they could have bought with margin from this particular American textile company, they would have. We want a return on our investments for our 401's, so those fund managers have to turn profit. It all trickles down to us being our own worst enemy. We get what we want, but suffer because we got what we wanted.
@concernedone
Beats the hell out of me.
I used to work in steel manufacturing making chassis' to haul shipping containers. The 40' gooseneck chassis was our bread and butter. Eventually the Chinese copied us. We ended up selling them at a loss for $700/ea while they were shipping them here from China for $500/ea. Didn't take long until myself and a lot of other people got laid off. Point is, how the hell can any company compete with that?
The only thing I see the GOP doing is crying about regulations that really have nothing to do with the real problem. I don't see them doing anything to combat the widespread outsourcing of American jobs. The reason those jobs are being outsourced is unfair trade policy. The reason nobody in Washington wants to lift a finger to fix that is because the companies that exploit those trade policies have Washington in their back pocket.
Wrong again:
What the F**K did you hire him to do? "Looks and Sounds like a President" (majority of Newsvine Posts during the Presidential Debates).
You just love posting uneducated, uniformed emotive opinions (also reflected by those that voted for your posts).
President Obama's FIRST PRIORITY MUST have been to Reinstate those US Laws that made Illegal the Causes of the 1907 Depression, 1929-1939 Great Depression and the current $60-100 Trillion USD "Global Economic Crisis" consisting of the "Mortgage Crisis"*, "Wall Street Crisis"*, "Financial Crisis"*, "Banking Crisis"*, "Credit Crisis"*, etc.
*Key indicators that the US (and most of the World) are in a DEPRESSION and NOT a Recession. Poverty increases are also an indicator of a Depression.
President Obama's Policies that affected the current US:
Candidate Obama's "Tax the Rich", "Rich Pay Their Fair Share" during the Presidential Debates, so as soon as he becomes President, the start of the Rich Foreign Investors and Rich US Investors leaving the US. WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU INVESTED MILLIONS TO START UP SOMEONE ELSE'S BUSINESS TO MAKE MORE MONEY, OR TO INVEST IN A US BUSINESS ????? That's right the Rich have the money to do that and YOU DO NOT. In this case Money walks (ran from the US) and Bullsh!t Talks.
April 2009, August 2009, President Obama, "US Military will not be used to secure US Borders" (not the same as States Militia's, aka National Guard).
August 10, 2009, Associated Press, President Obama's Intent to Legalized the over 23 Million Illegal Aliens at the US.
In previous Newsvine Posts (other Topic) I stated the monetary impacts on the US Economy, that shoot down any uninformed uneducated emotive nonsense opinions to crash and burn.
President Obama's previous Policy (not a US Law, passed by US Congress) to require the Illegal Aliens to be counted in the 2010 Census without changing US Laws. Result:
California could get nine House seats it doesn’t deserve because illegal aliens will be counted in 2010.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204908604574332950796281832.html?mod=djemEditorialPage
August 2009, President Obama's Policy as negotiated by his Political Appointees Eikenberry and Holbrooke with President Karzai, with no US Military input of General McChrystal, as the Rules of Engagement, "Cannot Shoot until Shot".
2011 President Obama's Policy of "Only Criminal Illegal Immigrants will be deported".
See posts#1.47, 4.12, 6.15, 7.11, 10.21.
Where the F**k are your Facts John-1894652 ????????????? H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-................!!!!!!!!!!
finally an end, but I am sure this will continue on the next post that gets above people's attention. When does this game end?
Glad to see that the republican policies are working. Lets do more republican policies and perhaps we can get the poverty rate to 30%
Don't worry Mike they're hard at work doing just that.
Their goal is 50% poverty.
I'm pretty sure the goal is 98% poverty. Then the top 2% will have just about everything.
I see a Country of gated communities with private security for the rich.
I see a Country of slums, ghettos, barrios and shantytowns for everyone else.
John, you only see the extremes, you don't see the millions in the middle who are living well, are not in poverty and are not counted as rich. All my working life I've wanted a new car every year, cool place to live and money in my pocket. Well, I chose to not be rich. I simply improved my labor skills so I could get a living wage and not fall into poverty because I chose to not improve myself and make myself more valuable to an employer. Lol, maybe therein lies the real problem; Making oneself more valuable to an employer. I've worked in shops where many people had the attitude; "By gawd, I'm an American, we don't have to work hard, to make ourselves valuable, we are deserving!" One thing that really needs defining; "What exactly is poverty?"
The Future US Labor Union Cities of President Obama:
Requiem for Detroit, BBC Documentary
http://documentaryheaven.com/requiem-for-detroit/
before any of you start the nonsense of what the US Labor Unions did:
Truth hurts huh. "President Obama we are your Army" - Hoffa. Research who Jimmy Hoffa Sr. was and who Jimmy Hoffa Jr. is.
Lions, tigers, bears, oh my!
Teachers Unions, Construction Unions, Poor, Oh My !
Pass it you Repugnants then we will know what's in it ! (Bogus Health Care Reform Act again).
Background History
Henry Ford pays his workers a "Fair and Living Wage" so that they can afford the Automobiles manufactured by Ford. Regardless of the US Labor Unions. The US Labor Unions claim they did this.
The 1929 to 1939 Great Depression wipes out the US Labor Unions of the Henry Ford Era.
"Italian Organized Crime" takes over the US Labor Unions as a "Legit Business with Political Clout".
After the "New Deals to the American People" fail miserably to get the US out of the Great Depression, President FDR: Nationalizes all US Industry, Suspends all US Labor Union Activities, and starts selling "War Materials" to England 1939 to 1941, before US entry into World War II. This gets the US out of the 1929 to 1939 Great Depression (as to why the Official Year the US got out of the Great Depression is 1939. World War II is the final push that got the US completely out of the Great Depression, and acts as a recovery for the US.
To maximize the Health of the Workers and increase their available money to spend, President FDR institutes Universal Health Care for All US Citizens, by getting the US Insurance Corporations out to the Medical Profession. As the US Insurance Corporations were also taken over by "Italian Organized Crime" as a "Legit Business with Political Clout" (previously Organized Crime Arsonist Tommy the Torch selling "Business Insurance", "Home Owner's Insurance").
During World War II to minimize Catastrophic Accidents at US Ammunition Plants and Factories, the US War Department conducts a Study. Since President FDR Nationalized US Industry, he implements the US War Department recommendations Nationwide: Work Place Safety (Fire Extinguishers, Length of Women's Hair, Safety Boards, Eye Protection, Hearing Protection, Hand Protection, Protective Clothing, etc.), Child Labor Laws (excluding Family Farms), Maximum Hours of Work, Minimum hours of sleep, Skills for Pay (Minimum Wage), Sunday off for "Christian Religious Worship" and Saturday off for "Jewish Religious Worship" later becoming the "Weekend" off, etc.. The things that the US Labor Unions claimed they did, but could not since their US Labor Union Activities were suspended at the time.
President FDR suspected that the US Labor Unions were sympathetic to Mussolini (Black Shirts, the Black Shirts being organized like the National Socialist German Workers Party (NAZI, a Political Labor Union) and the Brown Shirts). During the Liberations of Sicily and Italy, this was proven as the US Labor Unions Striked to stop or slow down the US Military. The US Labor Unions then turned Violent. President FDR by Executive Order has the US Military Police (not National Guard) stop the US Labor Union Violence by any means; the US Military Police machinegun the Violent US Labor Union Strikers.
After World War II the majority of US Citizens, especially those that worked in President FDR's Nationalized US Industry, ignore the Propaganda claims of the US Labor Unions.
Years later the US Citizens forgot what happened, and the US Labor Unions start to take over, since they are a "Legit Business with Political Clout" (Bribing and coercing the US Politicians, as Lobbyists and Special Interest Groups).
The US Labor Unions gain control, just like the National Social German Workers Party, a Political Labor Union, usually by violent means as "Union Tactics", with extortion (no Union Membership, no Job; just like no NAZI Membership, no Job).
This can be seen in books and movies "On the Waterfront", "Last Exit to Brooklyn", "F.I.S.T.", "Jimmy Hoffa", etc..
On the Waterfront (1954)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047296/
Last Exit to Brooklyn (1989)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097714/
F.I.S.T.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077531/
Hoffa (1992)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104427/
And yes I have pages of Book (History not novels) references also. The most important is the WWII US War Department Study to prevent Catastrophic Accidents at US Ammunition Plants and Factories.
So with all of that said, How smart was it for the US Government to let the US Labor Unions into the US Government as the US Government (State and Federal) Employees Union, etc.. And how smart are the Teachers that are teaching the children for letting the US Labor Unions into their Profession. You think that they would have more money to spend if they did not pay US Labor Union Dues.
Who in their right mind would buy a bag of apples if some of them were rotten and moldy, just to get a couple of good ones, and no you cannot throw out any of the rotten and moldy apples you have to eat them raw without washing them. You also cannot store the rotten moldy ones separately from the good ones to prevent the good ones from becoming rotten and moldy (infected).
Almost forgot reference (some reason, somebody does not want US Citizens to see this, so I had to use a Russian Link (in English). The other US Links were down "Unavailable"):
Requiem For Detroit. BBC Documentary, 2010. 76 minutes.
http://documentaryheaven.com/requiem-for-detroit/
watch the link above you might learn something about US Labor Union City of Detroit, President Obama's Future America.
How smart is it for the US Labor Unions to Strike (1937) during the Great Depression demanding a "Fair and Living Wage", then squating at private property to prevent everyone from working, including beating up "Scabs", so that Ford could not make money to pay them a "Fair and Living Wage". Like I said before the ONLY thing that stopped this US Labor Union nonsense was President FDR's suspension of US Labor Union Activities, and then World War II.
An example of this for yourself would be if a bunch of people came into your house (private property), tied you and everyone up, squat, and demand food after eating everything in your house, and will not untie you nor your family to go get the food. And when they do not get the food that they demand they start beating your family to death, with you last.
That said:
100 % correct.
David-475776
What a BS piece of revisionary history. You skipped the 1950's 1960's and 1970's when America was the strongest most viable economy on the planet. All basically due to the involvement of the labor unions and starting things such as the EPA after earth day 1970 helping to clean our air and watersheds.
Since you are a paid shill it won't matter to you or those who pay you, I figured I would post below yours so anyone who reads it donw the roqad may have pause and think about what you said and then look into the history for themselves.
www.newdeal20.org/2011/07/22/fdrs-championing-of-labor-unions-key-to-prosperous-post-war-economy-52301/
I hope Obama campaigns this point to the people! He can't blame anyone but himself!
Right. It's Obama's fault.
Maybe he can't blame anyone else but I sure can. I know who put this country in a ditch. I also know that Reagan put this country in a ditch too.
People, why are we so naive? No matter who is in power we will have the same problems, or you think one man can change the way U.S. Companies do business. The government can't make these companies change, example the Airlines imposed the baggage fee, increased the air fares due to the increase in oil prices back in 2008, do you remember when the cost of oil went down did the airlines eliminate the baggage fees NO THEY DID NOT, did they hire more people? NO THEY DID NOT. So the real enemies are these greedy companies that only want more tax cuts to increase their profits, invest in technology which in return eliminates jobs. So please don't blame the government for this bad economy, blame the greedy companies that are the problem for this economy.
The Tea Party only cares about #1, Them. And if they get into the White House they will kill the poor and decimate the middle class.
TP is middle class. the poor > btw who are the poor? a family of 4, that have thousands of dollars of releif in form of housing, food, and medicade vouchers. the MC ? a family of four where breadwinner makes $260k yr? that family isn't rich. TP is mainly folks between $50-300k. small business owners > the folks BO has declaired war on. The wealthy are his friends. The corprate CEO's support BO. When his policies regulate the small bus man out of bus the corps will take over.
Are you kidding me? A family of four with an income of $260K isn't rich? Granted, they aren't filthy, stinking rich, but not rich? Really? Most "middle class" people are depending or dependent on Social Security for at least a portion of their retirement--they don't advocate for it's demise. The only people who do are those who will not be hurt by its disappearance--the rich. And in most of the country a person who makes over $100K is considered well off. I have an advanced degree and have been in the same job for almost 11 years. My husband is a blue-collar worker. We have 2 kids, one with special needs. We thrive on less than $80K a year and are grateful for what we are lucky to have--others have it far worse. I think you need to start counting your blessings, because I suspect you are among the lucky.
I would love to make 250k a year.. I have a family of four and my wife and I both work and our adjusted gross income last year was 52k.. We are just right above poverty line and we can barely live paycheck to paycheck. Since leaving the army in 2000 I have been plagued with medical issues which take up over 40% of our income every year. Our wages have gone down considerably because our company has raised our insurance premiums 10.00 per week per year and our increases in pay only 35 cents an hour per year effectively lowering how much we make every year. I can only see it getting worse.
I see how people are taking about this kind of voucher and all this help available to people making under 250k a year but I can tell you from personal experience we do not qualify for any help even at 52k a year combined income. I will not complain because we do manage to scrape by each year. I have two happy girls ( I cannot give them what I would like, but we survive).
I don't blame the President for our problems ( Bush or Obama ). I do blame the HOUSE for obstructionism in doing what is right for OUR Country. All any Politician cares about it making their bank accounts larger. In the end the World economy will fail because there will not be enough people with money left to buy any thing from the corporations that are downsizing (moving jobs overseas and paying less wages).
History repeats itself and if the path our Government is on stays, there will be another uprising. I would hate to see it come to that but I fear it may.
r miller-4090021 - btw who are the poor? a family of 4, that have thousands of dollars of releif in form of housing, food, and medicade vouchers.
Spoken like a true Conservative TP. Before my back surgery got me fired, my household income was 42k with a family of 5. Now, my wife is working full time, and we are sitting at 28k/yr until I get back to work. We are getting 200/month in food stamps to allow us to actually eat. I'm sure we qualify for housing credits. Since you like to spout off about how much we get from the government tit, I'll educate you.
Housing credits are calculated by the TP in 2 ways - HUD allowance and Section 8. If you have any income, whatsoever, you go on a waiting list for up to 2 years before you are eligible for housing. You are then given a list of houses in your area, and rent is based on your income. My mom went through Section 8 when we were kids. I could never do that to my kids. This is NOT a perk. These houses may stick to some standards, but the neighborhoods they are in certainly do not.
As soon as I am back to work, and we are actually able to afford our bills, we will no longer qualify for food assistance. They do not simply give you food assistance because you are below the poverty line. A family of 4 in Oklahoma, living on a $10/hr single income, does not qualify for assistance. That's 20k/yr. Gas is currently $3.56 in the city, so you know how our economy rates.
Not everyone qualifies for unemployment. From the time you are released from work, your employer has 4-6 weeks to respond, during which time your case is in evaluation. Once the employer responds, you are either approved or denied, depending on the reason they give for your termination. I was approved, as I was terminated while my FMLA was still in effect. That was 2 months ago. I have yet to collect a dime because I haven't recovered enough from my back surgery to be released to look for work. Fun fact: If you are illegaly terminated from employment while injured, there are no resources for you. The courts are expected to sort all that out. Google the amount of time it takes the average illegal termination lawsuit to be settled. No one can live with 0 income for that long.
So to all the people that say you need to give corporations more money for them to create jobs, and to the Tea Party folks that say the poor are suckling on the tits of your labor, I say go screw yourself. Walk a mile in my shoes before you say a word about what the government does for us. Exxon gets more money from the government than we do.
I should probably mention, before it's pointed out, that my internet is my cell phone. We qualify for $1/month home phone service, but there's a $200 deposit. I can't afford DSL or cable internet at the moment. We had to let that go. For the moment, we are able to keep the cell phone, and have only sold 1 of our 2 computers. I'm able to tether this one for the moment.
Expect more of the same down the road especially if a Republican gets into the Whitehouse.
In a recent debate not one @!$%# on stage would agree to 10 dollars of spending cuts for every one dollar in revenue.
That speaks volumes, when you consider the only people doing well right now are the wealthy.
This is a direct result of having a completely incompetent, totally corporate corrupted bush-cheney, neocon-GOP completely wrecking our and the entire Wold economy..., and followed by three solid years of t-GOPer OBSTRUCTIONISM...
There is no political party named the "GOP"... You see, the GOP is merely a wall-street-owned and elitist-managed CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE!!
Where are all those jobs boehner and israelite eric cantor promised? Why would anyone expect them to do other than continue to do everything possible to hurt the recovery, stall any recovery -- when it was clear from even BEFORE day one of Obama's administration that the GOP's sole goal was to "make Obama a one-term President!!!
I call that TREASON, and typical behavior of a CRIMINAL RIGHT-WING CONSPIRACY.
It's still partially Obama's fault for being weak and caving to these un-American tea baggers.
A backbone would be nice. The guy goes out and shows all of his cards to republicans then expects for them to let him pass bills.
So the Republicans have been in control of the House for less than a year and you people are complaining that they have done nothing. The President has been in office for more than two years and he has gotten a bill passed that will drive the country further in debt and some blame for the unemployment rate yet many of you are laying the blame solely on the Republicans and the Tea Party which did not form until 2009.
Please keep in mind that the severity of this recession is due to the collapse of the housing bubble and the credit crisis it caused. Also keep in mind that the policies causing the housing bubble were put in place by democrats and a democrat president. That president ignored warnings about the derivatives market from his own people and that democrat congressmen fought any attempt to bring the markets under control. I intend to remind you liberals every time you attempt to lay the blame squarely on the shoulders of George Bush.
The point should be is that we need to let our government know that business as usual is no longer acceptable.
Clearly the wealthy need a tax break.
Well thank God the millionaires get to keep their tax breaks! Thanks for nothing Obama for losing your nuts and becoming a Republican.
Bravo, well said.
Stop the sarcasm! These comments to do not lead to any kind of constructive discussion.
Of course the poverty level has increased. This isn't rocket science. More people being laid off (B of A the latest), more people employed only part-time, more people unemployed.
People with literally no or little income can spend only on the bare necessities. If we want this economy to recover, we have to get money in the hands of people who will recirculate it ... not continue to have it hoarded in the bank accounts of corporations who refuse to hire because they are "uncertain" ... what a weak and sad excuse for being unwilling to participate in our recovery.
Exactly why should any business, larger or small, hire employees they don't need??
Peter17 if they don't, they won't be needed themselves eventually.
You can only cut off so much of your own nose before you begin to spite your face.
That is it. Trickle down economics is a myth that does nothing but create a demand inequality. When all the money goes to those who already have enough money to buy whatever they want, instead of those who could use that money on NEEDS, overall demand decreases. Jobs are not created by tax deductions to the rich, they are created by an increase in aggregate demand!
They people should start to spend no matter how little it is, and the companies need to stop sending jobs overseas.
Well said, Terriels ... and an ancient wisdom that should not be discounted. Many of these corporations have eliminated jobs by doubling up on their remaining employees ... so the ones left are more pressed, more stressed, and the ones "let go" are left competing in an ever shrinking job market.
Then our fellow "compassionate" Americans find it clever to label these folks lazy bums who only want a free ride from government assistance. I find this attitude unconscionable.
Sunspot you are totally correct, it is a lame excuse also technology plays a key role in corporations not willing to hire because they actually don't need people, why would they need people when they have technology to replace them.
Repub De-reg Capitalism: A Love Story
The end result of excessive tax breaks and loopholes to big business to the tune of record profits of $1 trillion and record low NET taxes of just 17.5% (compared to the actual corporate rate of 35%). Ridiculous when you consider that despite promises to employ more Americans here by getting the tax breaks those same companies shift more work overseas. Corrupted system by corrupted UNPATRIOTIC American companies. We can expect just more of the same in the future as Congress itself is corrupted and assuredly getting under the table handouts from big industry in exchange for those tax breaks.
So everything you purchase is marked "made in the USA"? We demand lower prices as consumers. Why do you think Wal-Mart is doing so well?
What has to happen is the US enforcing the same rules China has placed on American and other 'western' companies that went to China to sell products there. I have repeatedly said in posts that relate to trade and China that China forced US companies to enter into co-production and licensed production of American goods. Now that China has gained the technology and formed companies to compete with the very same US and western companies in production of consumer and capital equipment we the US should require China to reciprocate and enter into the same requirements. As we are all aware, there is an ever increasing number of Chinese owned and produced products imported into the US. Time now for these products to be assembled here in the USA.
You all continually bicker back and forth about partisanship politics. This is exactly why things do not get done here in the USA. Americans just cannot unite to a single cause and one of the causes that has to be addressed soon is the economic 'war' China has declared on the US. This country needs to produce and EXPORT porducts in order to survive in this global environment. The US MUST allow access to higher education for ALL Americans who want it and the US MUST change the patent system which a potential inventor must spend several thousand dollars to obtain a patent. This country still leads the world in innovation but the many brilliant ideas out there usually never come to fruition by a patent system that requires thousands of dollars to obtain patents.
A non-profit, possible volunteer based organization staffed by successful US business executives and entrenpreurs should be formed to screen the many thousands of ideas Americans have for new products, services and industries and guide these potential successes thru the patent process to implementation of their ideas. New products and industries are the only way the US will have a chance to compete with the rest of the world and the possibility of new, high paying jobs.
But, wait. The rich are richer. The CEOs are getting bigger paychecks. So it all balances out. Quit your damn whining! This is what you wanted. This is what you ALLOWED!
As a non-partisan conservative I do not like this new generation of Republicans (word neo-something rings a bell?). Nevertheless, you are right. What has changed, Obama?
All the indicators for this country (poverty rate, median income, welfare recipients, wage growth, unemployment rate, etc.) are going to show negative trends for the foreseeable future (i.e. next 10 years at least), unless we take a deep look at our structural problems such as, debt, letting the rich and corporations off the hook so easily, tax breaks for the corporations, wealth shift from the middle class to the rich, not investing enough in our country's education and infrastructure, etc.
We are so infatuated with the tax bogey man, if anyone dares to say "increasing tax on the rich to pay for infrastructure, etc.", the other side pounces on them and label them "Job Killers". We have so much money to spend on un-wanted defense hardware, un-necessary wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, defend South Korea, etc., we do not have money to fix out Air Traffic System. US Spends the lowest (on per capita basis) on Infrastructure upkeep of any OECD country. We will see more of the Minnesota Bridge collapses very soon. We are doling out so much money in Health Care and still behind on all the healthcare metrics among the OECD countries.
In short, we will go from being the Number One Economic Super Power to Argentina II (in about 10 years) and to Venezuela II in about 35 years. Republicans and Democrats alike have sown the seed for that in the past 25 years and we will get there in the next 35 years.
Anybody that says you are wrong is stupid.
Why would anything think that taxing the rich (over 200K individuals) would deter job creation? Also how does giving businesses tax breaks ensure that they will hire more people? Not if they don't need them, and they will not if people who don't have jobs cannot buy much.
I am so afraid of this country becoming third world, where the distribution of wealth is uneven, consequently making the gap between wealth and poverty even larger. I've been saying this for a long time :(
janellect,
You're right on! You get it! Why would anyone think that when the data indicates otherwise? Since 1950, we have had five tax increases on the rich. Four out of those five times unemployment went down. Yes, let me repeat, went down, not up. Now, let's see what do the the spin doctors not understand about this data, about what essentially has happened historically, that tax increases on the rich have not deterred job creation?
Once upon a time, in eighth grade... there was a discussion regarding wealth distribution in Rome... it was the SAME STORY as the latter half of the 20th century United States! Weird. Wonder how that's gonna turn out for us...
diatribe... Rome very much parallels our society...
So, we have more 'n more hitting poverty and the right wants to cut entitlements, but don't want to tax the rich. Romney believes in free, free enterprise, so those wonderful corporations will hire, hire, hire. Then why are so many corporations doing so well and not hireing, and why have so many abandoned this country for cheap labor? Yep, the private sector is going to take care of us all, eh Mitt?
We don't tax people based on how much wealth they have, only on their income.
Peter17, and that's apparently one of the problems. We need the capital gains tax rate to go up to at least 25%. right now at 15%, it is a "job killing tax"
seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2016189782_taxes13.html
FROM: www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/09/does-the-low-capital-gains-tax-harm-the-poor/244954/
OH! So taking more money from people will create jobs? Well, that's news.
25%? Brilliant. Maybe I'll give up on saving for retirement and just count on the govt. to take care of me.
Corps. are hiring...in droves, all over the world. My company is hiring tons of folks, in Bangcock. Corps. aren't hiring here where they'll have to pay for Obamacare and high employment taxes.
My company also changed our ins. coverage to such a high deductible that we are basically self insured now. Don't get sick.
JoeMoe-4068810
It is not related to immigration. In fact, the fix is immigration. Open the gates and let everyone in. Why? Let me explain:
Banks create money when we borrow:
ARE YOU INSANE? Banks create money, do they? Those same banks that gambled their money plus the money they created and crushed the economy when they went under? There hasn't been a single bill to bail out Century 21. The bailout was for the banks that sank us, who in turn used the bailout money to pay themselves instead of stimulation by lending.
Let's not trust that solution, yes?
Hm. How in the bloody hell did that post end up on this thread? I know full well I scrolled down after copying that comment, yet it went on the previous thread. BRILLIANT!
I wonder if the statisticians have made any attempt to correlate the increase in the poverty level with the increase in illegal immigration and resultant change in ethnic demographic. While outside the bounds of polical correctness, I'm guessing there is a causal correlation.
You cant' address a problem unless you confront it.
It is not related to immigration. In fact, the fix is immigration. Open the gates and let everyone in. Why? Let me explain:
Banks create money when we borrow:
www.tradingstocks.net/html/banks_create_money.html
All of our money supply was created like this. Thus the money supply is debt. And it needs to be paid back with interest.
Hold on there. Did you hear that? Translate into plain English: All of the money we have is not enough to pay the debt. Thus borrowing must increase exponentially in order to make it possible to pay old debt, with new debt.
This is what we have been doing for 2 centuries. But at last we ran out of borrowers. Population is not increasing fast enough. Therefore, the fix is to allow more immigration and encourage those people buy new homes at ever higher prices. Around the world, we try to do this as well. If we succeed, entire world will be in debt and some day we will still run out of borrowers, economy will crash and banks will conficate people's property. But who cares.
Shredman-3469025 - good point. Another thing to consider is how the increase in illegal immigration and that fact that the illegals have taken construction jobs and other jobs once held by blue collar workers has impacted the economy. Seems that while white collar jobs have traveled to India, Romania etc. some once good paying jobs such as carpenters, stone masons, roofers etc. are going to those coming from accross the border.
i agree - i know of several skilled workers in the construction industry who are unemployed because of illegal workers replacing them on job sites ... the fact these new workers are unskilled does not seem to matter to the companies hiring them ...
I thought illegal immigration was down though.